I have been trying to cycle my new 75 gallon saltwater aquarium. I had a huge ammonia spike when I added my dry rock. Was reading 8ppm and nitrites were reading 5ppm. I did a 50% WC after giving it a few days. My nitrates did spike a bit but only spiked to 160 after I did the water change. I also got a piece of live rock and added to it along with 2 bottles of bio spira. Ammonia stayed at about 4 for 3 days and nitrtites stayed at 5 and nitrates at 40. Did another small water change when the ammonia was reading 2 because the nitrites weren't budging. The next day ammonia was reading 0.5, nitrites 2, and nitrates 80. I do use RODI. I decided to sit on it for 2 weeks and see what happens. All 2 weeks my API test said I had 0.25 to 0.5 ammonia, 0.5 nitrites, and 80-160 nitrates. I decided to order a salifert ammonia test because being stuck at 0.25 and 0.5 seemed off. Salifert say 0ppm and now my ammonia on api is reading 1ppm. I'm lost. I also should add that we noticed some hitchhikers from the rock. Look like bristleworms from what I can tell. I've seen them moving around at night and as soon as my light in the room come on, they go into the rocks.
2 ammonia tests with 2 different readings
- Thread starter Mdw2103
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there's a so much simpler way vs any testing: how long has that tank/condition of water been running
over or under 30 days
over 30 days you are cycled, and what the wastewater reads doesn't matter. source: microbiology of cycling thread.
change out your water and begin at day 30
the live components you brought in have boosted it likely to done, but, 30 is universal and API is known to misread
the amounts of ammonia its already been given + 30 days underwater will always cycle, always. wastewater ranges person to person, we change it out and start clean ideally
over or under 30 days
over 30 days you are cycled, and what the wastewater reads doesn't matter. source: microbiology of cycling thread.
change out your water and begin at day 30
the live components you brought in have boosted it likely to done, but, 30 is universal and API is known to misread
the amounts of ammonia its already been given + 30 days underwater will always cycle, always. wastewater ranges person to person, we change it out and start clean ideally
all of it, just to get out the ammonia metabolites/nitrates/plant food. can you post a tank shot just curious of overall standouts.
such a neat trick though, bacteria work so consistently tank to tank that cycling doesn't really require testing like we were once sternly, strictly told.
google cycling charts already called the 30 day thing ha, they got it from 1950's microbiology books or thereabouts...
that's a measure of when bioslicks form that house the working bac. its no measure of random amounts of ammonia or nitrites stewing about....that's all great feed for what is building on surfaces as slicks and slimes and pigments etc.
wastewater testing and not complying with day 30 endpoint is the result of everyone putting in largely varying doses of initial ammonia, always thinking its the exacting 1-2 ppm from a bottle etc, they're not because these testers can't read accurately for any five people running them. they'll all report different levels of ammonia or nitrites our linked example threads show
your tank has to be ready unless you medicated it not to be. its amazing updates to todays cycling to know we're just about certain yours is done having seen no test, not even a pic. if the description is accurate, you've described nothing that a doctor would deem antibacterial.
by moving live surfaces tank to tank, you've spread bacteria.
not cycling by day 30 means someone measured and input antibacterial meds soluble in water and sustained it at the right doses for ten days.
*lastly, there is a way to test if you want.
there is a way to make your ammonia tester work...you have to calibrate it to zero.
see the very very last page in this thread for how to do that
www.reef2reef.com
such a neat trick though, bacteria work so consistently tank to tank that cycling doesn't really require testing like we were once sternly, strictly told.
google cycling charts already called the 30 day thing ha, they got it from 1950's microbiology books or thereabouts...
that's a measure of when bioslicks form that house the working bac. its no measure of random amounts of ammonia or nitrites stewing about....that's all great feed for what is building on surfaces as slicks and slimes and pigments etc.
wastewater testing and not complying with day 30 endpoint is the result of everyone putting in largely varying doses of initial ammonia, always thinking its the exacting 1-2 ppm from a bottle etc, they're not because these testers can't read accurately for any five people running them. they'll all report different levels of ammonia or nitrites our linked example threads show
your tank has to be ready unless you medicated it not to be. its amazing updates to todays cycling to know we're just about certain yours is done having seen no test, not even a pic. if the description is accurate, you've described nothing that a doctor would deem antibacterial.
by moving live surfaces tank to tank, you've spread bacteria.
not cycling by day 30 means someone measured and input antibacterial meds soluble in water and sustained it at the right doses for ten days.
*lastly, there is a way to test if you want.
there is a way to make your ammonia tester work...you have to calibrate it to zero.
see the very very last page in this thread for how to do that
The microbiology of reef tank cycling.
You can skip your cycle. Ive been reefing online for twenty years and have never waited one second for a tank to cycle, because I buy rocks that are already cycled and move them home. Here's two: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/octo-high-end-sps-skip-cycle-build.713256/...
www.reef2reef.com
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Thats a picture from when we were filling it back up from the 50% water change. I am draining it now to refill. Since that picture I have added a large piece of live rock and a cross flow wave pump. We are trying to figure out a sump design that works for us. Honestly thinking of doing multiple 5 gallon buckets and setting them up in my basement and plumb everything to the basement. That's where my RODI filter is and it would be simple to go down there instead of trying to maneuver around in a small stand.
yes with the live component plus the submerged dry rocks/time and boosters those surfaces could pass a new ammonia test, but I wouldn't bother. the reason we're up to page 19 or so without killing tanks is bc using submersion cycling is handy, you don't have to start out with a bunch of nitrate/plant feed from having to test the ammonia over and over like testers require.
verify then re verify type of thing
with this trust based method, once you change water your rocks can handle some items.
any wet pack sand used....showed up with filtration bac.
they always find a way in.
**I wouldn't pack in fish early anyway, they need disease protocol/fallow time
use CUC and easy corals when ready
per page one of that thread, nitrite doesn't matter at all in cycling. nitrate is for algae tuning, we're lucky to measure it correctly anyway.
what matters is ammonia behavior, and every cycling chart on line shows ammonia complying, never holding at .25, by day 20 ish.
its never day 40. ammonia and nitrite have linked up, both zero regarding abilities of a calibrated clean water retest, by day 20 ish in nearly every cycling chart online. using bottle bac speeds it up bigtime, days.
verify then re verify type of thing
with this trust based method, once you change water your rocks can handle some items.
any wet pack sand used....showed up with filtration bac.
they always find a way in.
**I wouldn't pack in fish early anyway, they need disease protocol/fallow time
use CUC and easy corals when ready
per page one of that thread, nitrite doesn't matter at all in cycling. nitrate is for algae tuning, we're lucky to measure it correctly anyway.
what matters is ammonia behavior, and every cycling chart on line shows ammonia complying, never holding at .25, by day 20 ish.
its never day 40. ammonia and nitrite have linked up, both zero regarding abilities of a calibrated clean water retest, by day 20 ish in nearly every cycling chart online. using bottle bac speeds it up bigtime, days.
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I must say, you are amazing and a life saver and relieved so much stress. Thank you. Maybe when I'm off this weekend I will be able to go to my LFS and get a few clean up crew. Unfortunately the corals locally all look horrible and tanks they are in are even worse. So looks like I will be looking up places to order corals from.
Dose more bacteria maybe once or twice a day (make a bottle last a week) don't feed, Crank up the heat above 80 if you like.and lastly Stop doing water changes. If you're showing any ammonia at all you are not ready because if you are cycled, bacteria would have eating up that ammonia quicker than you can test for it. Just leave it alone and wait till nitrite goes to zero.
That's the main issue. 2 different tests show different things. One shows 0 and one shows 1 and then all of 20 minutes later, the test rhat showed 0 remained at 0 and the test that showed 1 showed 0.25. So how can I trust the tests if I can get such a different reading in 20 minutes??
See about the .25 misreads we collect on page one of the cycling thread, they’re like yours. One use of Prime or similar water conditioners renders the tests wrong across multiple brands and causes nitrate nitrite cross reads as well
See if you can find a persistent .25 ammonia thread that doesn’t fit the patterns in our link examples
The very last page shows how to clear your tank with clean water, known zero ammonia, take base reading for calibration, increment up ammonia, re measure in 24
If you aren’t using testers like that you’re in the dark ages of cycling. The point of leading with the misread example is to show how testers fail, and no google chart on earth agrees with non zero ammonia at day 30 onward. Though wastewater is subject to read anything.
As soon as you have a baseline that hovers, which ammonia cannot do, you have your zero per tester. Ammonia is by rule dynamic, not same day to day its heading toward zero like electricity heads to the ground
When ammonia is free, things smell. Cloud (different than sandbed clouding) things die and it climbs it does not hover at .25 ever
See if you can find a persistent .25 ammonia thread that doesn’t fit the patterns in our link examples
The very last page shows how to clear your tank with clean water, known zero ammonia, take base reading for calibration, increment up ammonia, re measure in 24
If you aren’t using testers like that you’re in the dark ages of cycling. The point of leading with the misread example is to show how testers fail, and no google chart on earth agrees with non zero ammonia at day 30 onward. Though wastewater is subject to read anything.
As soon as you have a baseline that hovers, which ammonia cannot do, you have your zero per tester. Ammonia is by rule dynamic, not same day to day its heading toward zero like electricity heads to the ground
When ammonia is free, things smell. Cloud (different than sandbed clouding) things die and it climbs it does not hover at .25 ever
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Exactly and that is why you cleared so much up for me and relieved so much stress. I did dose something else in between but forgot what it was. I read it was similar to prime but with added coraline spores. Seems like I made something that can be simple extremely complicated by stressing over it. I am pretty sure I had read your thread before and that's what sent me to buy another ammonia test. Just to test the theory that the ammonia test could be off and honestly it validated it which made me order the salifert test and then you commented and validated it even more. My tank had seemed as though it was stable and cycled for over a week. But these stupid tests say it's not. I honestly think you are on a very right track. Trust how the tank looks and not the tests that can be WAY off.
Here's what I learned about cycling. Ammonia oxidizing bacteria multiplies every 20 or so mins while feeding. Nitrite oxidizing bacteria on the other hand takes 8 hours to multiply while feeding. Knowing that you can see why the longest part about cycling the tank is waiting for the nitrite bacteria to multiply to a large enough population to keep it zero.
In order to allow for that to happen its important to periodically halt the ammonia bacteria from multiplying. This is important because while the two types of bacteria don't compete for food, they do compete for surface area so it is important to not over feed ammonia.
Doing water changes limits the amount of food for the nitrite bacteria for them to multiply. At this point ammonia isn't really important as you have been cycling long enough for there be a abundant amount bacteria to process it.
But a hault for 2 weeks? That seems a little exteme. Especially seeing as how my nitrites were off the charts and the nitrates were off the charts. My ammonia would stay constantly at 0.25 and 0.5. The initial ammonia spike was it. I have living organisms in my tank and it seems to be thriving. Im not sure what I am missing here. I'd understand why my nitrites spikes so high if it wasnt for the fact they stayed spiked with no change and my ammonia never reached zero in the month I've cycled. Ive never dosed ammonia. I just put everything in and tested. Only thing i ever dosed was bacteria. I understand that nitrites spike longer than ammonia but my ammonia never reached 0. Which is why I think the kit I has was faulty. Nothing ever read zero from the time I filled the tank.
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