2 Questions.

[Mya]

Alrighty,
I have 2 questions.

Question 1. Can you over skim a tank? I have a skimmer rated for a 55-60 gal tank that I would like to put on my frag tank set up. My frag tank is a 20L with a 10g refuge. Currently there is nothing in it but I do plan on putting 2 clowns. Yes, I know thats small for clowns before you go jumping all over me I was thinking of either doing a pair of clowns in there or possibly one clown and a firefish. (The clowns would be in there as a breeding pair btw, thats why I was thinking 2)
This same question applies to my display tank as well. I plan on buying a new skimmer for it and was thinking of getting something really over rated for it too. Bad idea? Good idea? Let me know.

Question 1 leads really into question 2. In the frag tank I dont want to add any sand or rock to the tank. I plan on just having the racks that I place in and possibly a flower pot if I decide to put breeding clowns in it. There is currently nothing in the refuge either. Do I need to cycle this tank? If so, what am I cycling? I don't need to put rubble rock in the refuge right? That would just cause nitrates wouldnt it? Do I need to put Chaeto in the refuge?

As you can see my frag tank is giving me a hard time...
I want the tank neat and clean. Easy to see if something breaks off, falls or is missing. Something that is easy to get stuff up if it sticks (like anemones - Getting them out/off a rock is crazy hard as we all know) and things like that that. I know coraline will grow on the glass and I will be scrapping the front clear but back, sides, and bottom I am going to just let it grow as it wants.

I need help. Answers. Opinions. And Suggestions. Bring em on!

 

[Sr5_Reef]

First off, your going to want some sand and rock in the fuge at least. You need something for the natural bacteria to live in and help clean your water. I dont believe there is such thing as over skimming unless your trying to harvest a particular coral that likes less pristine water. A skimmer is only going to skim whats in the water column. I would suggest adding the 2 clowns in the tank, rock sand and cheato to the fuge. If you feed the fish its also feeding the corals. the skimmer should be fine IMO
Hope that Helps.
-Sr5_Reef

 

[Poseidon]

Question 1- No, I don't believe you can over skim a tank. If the skimmer is to large for your system, it will produce skimmate like mad for a day or so, then nothing for a few days, then produce again.

THere is a Problem with the rest of what you plan though. From my reading, in order to be successful in breeding clowns, you will need to feed them a LOT, and fatty foods at that. The added waste and bio load from the heavy feeding is not really the best place to grow frags, algae yes, frags not so much.

Question 2, Yes, you still need to cycle. Bacteria that consumes NH3, and NO2 will need to colonize somewhere, if there is no rock, then the will colonize on your bottom and racks. Basically any available space. For this reason alone I would add some rock to the sump, it is a much better place for the bacteria.

Problem #2, if you keep the bottom clear, it will present problems with breeding as well. The clowns need to have a bottom that is evident to them, it can be a piece of starboard, or gravel, or black acrylic...

If I may suggest a bit more reading, I think you will find all your answers.

 

[Mya]

Thanks for the letting me know what I need in the refuge of the frag tank set up. I was curious how I was going to get that bacteria and such without adding a bunch of things to the frag set up.

Any suggestion on how much rock lbs wise? And sand lbs wise?

And thanks for letting me know about the skimmer!

Edit*
My maroon clowns are breeding in my main tank which is fine and dandy. I know that whatever hatches there will be eaten... No big deal..
I am breaking the rule about different types of clowns in one tank and that is why I was thinking of getting another clown to breed with the 3rd clown I have. The odd man out clown has taken to hosting a whole temp frag rack I have and I thought either, Ill put him over in the frag tank so he can have all the racks and whatever else I put in there to enjoy and possibly get him a mate OR just put him and a firefish. Even if the 2 clowns do not breed in there I think I would like them in there either way.
Think 2 clowns would be to much?

2nd Edit*
Sorry to keep editing, I just hate double posting. I was reading further down the forum about "jump starting or skip cycling" by using water out of my main display. Do you think I should do some water swapping between the two tanks to jump start the cycling, after I get the sand, rock, and chaeto?

 

[ficklefins]

Setup your tanks with plumbing/heater/skimmer. Add some rock to the fuge and place a few lbs of rock from your current setup in there to get things going quicker. You don't need sand, it is more of a preference and since it is in the fuge it just isn't necessary. Test your water to make sure you are in the clear with the parameters. Than add your two clowns. Your skimmer is fine and once your clowns are ready to lay eggs I'm sure they will let you know when they start cleaning off one of your frag plugs. You could always buy a 2" x 2" tile and put it on your frag rack for them to clean when the time comes.

How's that sound?

 

[Mya]

That sounds good too. The 2x2 tile sounds really good!
I got the frag tank up. Got some water in it. Its running. I havent put the racks in yet. Nor have I got the light in yet that I want to use for it. I can post up pics if you want to see it.

I plan on using a hang on the back style skimmer and hanging it off the refuge in the bottom.

I know getting my odd man out clown out of my DT is going to be a real PITA but I know it will be much happier away from my evil maroon clowns. A breeding pair and maroons... I mean come on? You know they are the devil when they chase the magfloat when Im cleaning! I plan on getting a small RBTA for the frag tank as well (I plan on housing it kinda away from the frags, like put up a wall of eggcrate with a space in the top cut out so hopefully it stays near the bottom but my fish can go threw the opening, kinda like a window in an eggcrate wall) but want to make sure I do it right and don't mess anything up.

Better to go slow and get it right, vs rush it and be angry that its all jacked up later.
And, we all know going slow and right... saves money....

 

[ficklefins]

You may want to consider something other than a bubble tip, or other anemone for that tank. They will move around until they find their spot and most bubble tips prefer live rock and may not stay in an eggcreate structure.

If I were you I would look into getting a small/medium size frogspawn for your clowns to host in. Frogspawns will not move and clowns tend to take to them relatively easily (except for my new pair).

Not my image, see link below.

Image from: http://www.reefland.com/forum/reef-aquariums/23023-fresh-start-need-help.html

 

[Mya]

I was hoping that the odd man out clown would take to the some frogspawn or hammer. I got 2 small pieces of it now but he's not interested in it. He sleeps on or under some candycane's that are on the frag rack and literally hosts the whole rack. It stays there on the rack, cleans the rack, and gets really upset with the other clowns come near the rack.

I might not do the RBTA's for a while and see if it likes the whole tank of racks as much as its liking the frag rack it has now. Btw, I will be moving its current little rack over to the frag tank when its time. So I will be transplanting its current home with it.

Btw, How many lbs of rock should I use? Let me post up a pic of how the refuge looks so I can get some suggestions on how I should do this.

 

[ficklefins]

Looking forward to the pics.

Let me know if you want a 1.5year old naked clown who will eat her self to death and has no interest in anything but waiting at the surface of the tank to eat. She already swims into the feeding cup and I'm waiting for the day when I'm not home and she jumps out grabs her food and climbs back into the tank. She has adopted the tail spot blennys foraging behavior and will follow him around the tank after feedings to pick food off the sand.

 

[Mya]

Thank you for the offer on the clown but I think I am going to have to pass on that one. I would like to find another clown like the one I have I believe. He is by far one of my favorite fish and honestly I think he is really going to like it over in the frag tank with just another mate.

Sorry it took me so long to post up these pics. My dogs were bugging me to throw the ball and I got stuck doing it till they were tired.

Here are some pics of the fraggy tank.
In the first pic here, you might notice some lines on the outside of the glass. Its dry erase marker. Im trying to figure out the best way to put the racks in.

Sorry about my dogs fat head in the way. When the bottom of the tank stand is open, he's in there looking. He loves fish and whenever he can see one about eye lvl he tries to lick it threw the glass and cries obsessively about it. I was hoping to get the pic before his head got in there.

And a another pic of the refuge without the dogs head in the way. Ya, I know the water is high right now in the refuge. I dumped the spare water I had from the DT in it today. It was clean mixed water.

Got more questions. I been looking at lights. I would like to go T5s. Question is, should I get a 24" fixture or a 30" fixture? Also, how many bulbs should I get? 2 or 4?

Thanks for all the help, suggestions, and tips to get this up and going right.

 

[ficklefins]

What corals do you plan on keeping in your frag tank? Are you looking to DIY for the lights or buy a fixture?

One last thing, I would be cautious about having that metal fastner on your return pump. It looks like it is already starting to corrode.

 

[Mya]

I hate metal fasteners but we can't get the plastic ones around here. One of the LFS's said they would hopefully be carrying them soon. I hope to switch any and all fasteners when they get them in.

I think I am going to buy one. I kinda thought about doing a DIY light fixture but it seems like a big hassle. As for corals... Zoa's... shrooms... LPS's... I don't really plan on keeping any SPSs. Never been a big fan of them personally. Tho, if I get some small frags of them I might throw them in there to grow out. I just know I want lights that will look nice when on and that will make corals grow like weeds.

 

[Yellowtang]

+++1 IME metal fasters under the water is a bad deal espesially any that have zinc in there make up. lots of horror stories.

JR,

 

[schminksbro]

I agree with Mike!

Question 1- No, I don't believe you can over skim a tank. If the skimmer is to large for your system, it will produce skimmate like mad for a day or so, then nothing for a few days, then produce again.

THere is a Problem with the rest of what you plan though. From my reading, in order to be successful in breeding clowns, you will need to feed them a LOT, and fatty foods at that. The added waste and bio load from the heavy feeding is not really the best place to grow frags, algae yes, frags not so much.

Question 2, Yes, you still need to cycle. Bacteria that consumes NH3, and NO2 will need to colonize somewhere, if there is no rock, then the will colonize on your bottom and racks. Basically any available space. For this reason alone I would add some rock to the sump, it is a much better place for the bacteria.

Problem #2, if you keep the bottom clear, it will present problems with breeding as well. The clowns need to have a bottom that is evident to them, it can be a piece of starboard, or gravel, or black acrylic...

If I may suggest a bit more reading, I think you will find all your answers.

 

[Mya]

Thanks for the +1 but no one has said yet about how many lbs of rock? Also, no one has answered about lights. Haha.

I know, ask one question.. Then another.. Then another.
Its a cycle! I swear.

 

[Poseidon]

If you are only going to keep a pair of clowns in there, then 5-10 pounds of rock would be fine. As for the lights, T5 would be my choice, you can tailor them to the coral of your choice with bulb choices.

 

[Mya]

I plan on going T5s but what I meant was...

24" or 30"?
2 bulbs or 4 bulbs?

Also, what bulb combos would look great and cause the corals to grow well? What brand of bulbs would you guys recommend?

You know I do pretty well with reef keeping and all... There are just 2 things that really I can't grasp and can't ever seem to get right. Lighting and skimmers! I will have more skimmer questions here in a few.

Btw, thank you for answering about the rock. I'll pick some up today along with temp pulling a piece from my DT.

 

[Poseidon]

Well, since T5 bulbs come in 24, 36, 48, and 60" lengths, I would do a 24" fixture. 2 or 4 bulbs? 4 for sure! What frags are you trying to grow? 4 bulbs MAY not be enough, for frags low in the tank, you may have to raise the frags to the water surface.

I have a small frag area in my sump, and I have 3 24" bulbs that are to high off the surface, so the frags are just below the waters surface. (I do almost all SPS.)

 

[Mya]

I dont plan on having many if any SPS's. Maybe a piece of birdsnest or something small like that. Not a whole lot.

I planned on staggering the height of the frag racks. I figured some would have to be closer while others could be further away.

Mostly Zoa's, shrooms, LPS's. Stuff like that.
I started looking at bulbs and realized that getting 30" bulbs might be hard. I found a fixture and all but replacing the bulbs might be a challenge. 30" was just the exact length of the tank and the 24" would be a bit short but I guess okay still.

So if I go 24" x 4 bulbs what brand and what combo should I go for?

 

[Poseidon]

There are lots of options for a 4 bulb fixture, the minimum I would suggest is a TEK light, like this one:

https://diyreef.authsecure.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=55_82&products_id=374

There are certainly BETTER ways to go though, if you are handy, you could get a LOT more PAR from an IceCap retro or an IceCap fixture, but they are more expensive. (WORTH IT in my opinion.)

You could also do an ATI fixture like the Power Module, or Sun Power, like these:

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...ROD&Product_Code=ATI-2003&Category_Code=ATIt5

or

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...ROD&Product_Code=ATI-3001&Category_Code=ATIt5

Now, all that being said, the there are 3 things that I consider to be the keys or basics you need for a successful tank. They are interchangeable in order, as they are all equally important:

FLOW
LIGHTING
PROTEIN SKIMMER

Don't skimp on these, if you have to wait a week, or a month longer to get the better light, do it!