230 gallon in-wall, room divider, reef build

trioledeployment · May 15, 2017

trioledeployment said:
Believe it or not... 1 year. And always used tap water, with stress coat to dechlorinate... Just recently bought an RO system.

I had bleached the rock. Came a long way.

KJAG · May 15, 2017

Zachhll said:
I don't really think I was giving incorrect information. Yes I got confused and thought you were running a durso as I had read This thread a couple of days before I said anything about the type of overflow. As for the Bean I said MOST. I know their is nothing that tracks this but since both the ghost overflow from reef savvy and the shadow box from synergy reef both use the open channel at seperate levels. I'm willing to bet between the two of them they count for most of the bean animal setups. Raising the open channel does not effect the silent and safe overflow design. maybe it is not in bean animals original design but it has become the Normal way of running this method. As most people do not want to have to redo their plumbing to get it to work. Do a quick search on YouTube of the bean animal. Almost every video they are at different heights. As @Shores805 has said himself that he recommends having them at different heights let's move on I'd like to watch this tank become awesome. On to something new @MarsRover in your most recent cad you have ball valves is this just for the cad drawing. I know you said you were having gate galves.

Just made some edits at an attempt at brevity, but this rabbit hole is just getting deeper. You claim you've given nothing but correct advice. Okay. 1: Standpipes. You informed the OP that he should eliminate his standpipes and instead run his system as a Bean. Standpipes Are the entire pipe, not the fitting.
2: "Eliminating the fittings on the main siphon line, the siphon will start much quicker..." (Nope. It won't. A vertical siphon line is aided by gravity. His siphon startup issues, if any, will be directly secondary to his horizontal runs on his standpipes, not a vertical run of pipe or fittings off the siphon.)
3:"Most" BA systems out there in the hobby being of the packaged vendor orientations such as the Ghost etc. Wow.What a Bold claim. And YouTube as the defining source! This system has been in existence for well over a decade. Thousands upon thousands were plumbing these systems long before these cramped, prepackaged overflows were being sold. I won't argue that it's eventually possible for most running a BA to just buy one of these pre-fabbed units, but until these companies start implementing a different design( how about longer boxes for example) , they are simply inferior to the original BA and Calfo overflow design. It's apples to oranges dude.
Here's a recent thread. I didn't speak up in depth here because i didn't feel it was appropriate to do so in a vendors thread but I can see the problem here. Can you?
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/shadow-overflow-noise.303807/#post-3721339
The bulkheads entering the external box. Where are they located? Right behind the downturned elbows with no room for a fitting to direct them downwards to avoid the noise. Try to run them at higher flow, which a BA was designed for, and the result is noise into the box. The "solution" that everyone with these things bizarrely just blindly accepts? To restrict your flow to raise the water level in the external box and/or use Enkamat or sponges to try to silence the flow! Yep. Just cut the flow. Problem solved. No big deal. Even though the standpipe system we're selling you was designed for exponentially more flow than is possible to achieve with our product. If the masses are happy with a lower turnover than easily just having their local plastics shop fabricating something profoundly better for cheaper, well, they can have it. To each his own. But let's not compare these systems to the original BA design until these manufactures fix their issues.
By the way, it's important to note that a raised open channel is "a" "possible" fix. Not "the" fix. I've personally seen a couple systems with long horizontal runs where raising the OC was not sufficient and the system had to be re-plumbed. It's a band aid. And sometimes it doesn't work.

Moving on..hopefully?

Mars, are you married to the horizontal runs on your standpipes?

Zachhll · May 15, 2017

Back to this I see. I already admitted I was wrong and thought he was running a durso. As to removing the fittings at the top of the siphon. I wish I took videos of when I did some testing on my current tank. I tested using the fittings vs just open pipe. Due to the siphon line being below the water line in the sump it easier for the air to be expelled back up then it was to push all of the air under the water in the sump. Both methods work but with no fittings for the air be forced out of the siphon started much quicker. It is possible that with different plumbing methods the results could be different. But the fact is the method i was talking about works and is used by Red Sea. As for your number 3 the piping method for the 3 actual drains is the same. As for the flow issues. I agree I already read the thread you posted the other day. I agree that their internal overflow box is not big enough but the out side box of the overflow is essential a bean animal design. So lets move on. he has stated what method he is going to use. both would have worked. He has elected to go with the fittings. That perfectly fine and it will work just fine.

Zachhll · May 15, 2017

The only ghost style overflow I would buy is this one from Modularmarine. As this should provide more than enough surface skimming and flow

KJAG · May 15, 2017

Zachhll said:
Back to this I see. I already admitted I was wrong and thought he was running a durso. As to removing the fittings at the top of the siphon. I wish I took videos of when I did some testing on my current tank. I tested using the fittings vs just open pipe. Due to the siphon line being below the water line in the sump it easier for the air to be expelled back up then it was to push all of the air under the water in the sump. Both methods work but with no fittings for the air be forced out of the siphon started much quicker. It is possible that with different plumbing methods the results could be different. But the fact is the method i was talking about works and is used by Red Sea. As for your number 3 the piping method for the 3 actual drains is the same. As for the flow issues. I agree I already read the thread you posted the other day. I agree that their internal overflow box is not big enough but the out side box of the overflow is essential a bean animal design. So lets move on. he has stated what method he is going to use. both would have worked. He has elected to go with the fittings. That perfectly fine and it will work just fine.

Its not in my nature to just not rebut a point I see an issue with. The YouTube example simply had to be addressed. As did the standpipe terminology. As did the gate valve on the siphon. As did the implied rendition of the BA design with the raising of the OC as the latest and greatest design implementation. These are core issues that needed to be delved into. File back to page 8. I was just looking for clarification, you seemed to become offended and well, here we are. I've addressed the misconceptions I've seen in this thread. All good on my end. And I agree, that overflow you attached looks to be somewhat appropriate, although I'm not familiar with where the bulkheads enter the external box( they should on the sides, away from the three standpipes, otherwise it's more of the same in terms of noise and unnecessary flow adjustments) And by the way, to your credit, ironically i had forgotten about raising the OC(its of no concern in my systems) until you had mentioned it, which will help@marsrover if he doesn't decide to lose those horizontal runs.

MarsRover · May 15, 2017

trioledeployment said:
Double sided is the way to go

Woah! Really neat tank frame work! I love it!

My girlfriend and I have been trying to find examples to design what the top and bottom will look like for the tank. We already know we don't want it to look like a cabinet, more like it was built in. This is extrodinarily unique. Excellent!

MarsRover · May 16, 2017

Shores805 said:
Even though the standpipe system we're selling you was designed for exponentially more flow

Mars, are you married to the horizontal runs on your standpipes?

You are referring to the horizontal runs in my drain line under the tank? Nope, no married to them.

Sorry to nit-pick but since it's going around on this tread I thought I should say, is it technically exponentially more flow? Or are you just saying "exponential" to mean "a lot more". Just because exponential relationship means that it grows at the rate of a "to the power" relationship, I.e. The growth rate is proportional to its present value. Just saying

Zachhll said:
Back to this I see. I already admitted I was wrong and thought he was running a durso. As to removing the fittings at the top of the siphon. I wish I took videos of when I did some testing on my current tank. I tested using the fittings vs just open pipe. Due to the siphon line being below the water line in the sump it easier for the air to be expelled back up then it was to push all of the air under the water in the sump. Both methods work but with no fittings for the air be forced out of the siphon started much quicker. It is possible that with different plumbing methods the results could be different. But the fact is the method i was talking about works and is used by Red Sea. As for your number 3 the piping method for the 3 actual drains is the same. As for the flow issues. I agree I already read the thread you posted the other day. I agree that their internal overflow box is not big enough but the out side box of the overflow is essential a bean animal design. So lets move on. he has stated what method he is going to use. both would have worked. He has elected to go with the fittings. That perfectly fine and it will work just fine.

Folks, it is not strictly considered a siphon if it is just a straight pipe....you wouldn't call poking a hole in the bottom of a bucket a "siphon". You don't say your sink or bath tub siphons water down the drain. Granted both siphon and draining are caused by the force of gravity, siphons also incorporate surface tension/adhesive/cohesive effects. This is what allows it to go uphill some portion of the way. I assure you just gravity alone will not afford you that benefit.

KJAG · May 16, 2017

MarsRover said:
You are referring to the horizontal runs in my drain line under the tank? Nope, no married to them.

Sorry to nit-pick but since it's going around on this tread I thought I should say, is it technically exponentially more flow? Or are you just saying "exponential" to mean "a lot more". Just because exponential relationship means that it grows at the rate of a "to the power" relationship, I.e. The growth rate is proportional to its present value. Just saying

Folks, it is not strictly considered a siphon if it is just a straight pipe....you wouldn't call poking a hole in the bottom of a bucket a "siphon". You don't say your sink or bath tub siphons water down the drain. Granted both siphon and draining are caused by the force of gravity, siphons also incorporate surface tension/adhesive/cohesive effects. This is what allows it to go uphill some portion of the way. I assure you just gravity alone will not afford you that benefit.

Is this engineering jargon?

Should we take this to the semantics of verbiage? Why not I guess, considering the history of this thread thus far. Yep Just looked. Mind blown. Last time I'll use exponentially in that context..

These systems can have siphon issues with 90's in the standpipes. Strongly adviseable to have a straight drop or 45's into the sump. If possible.

CoralKing24 · May 16, 2017

Love the system and the idea. Keep it up.

trioledeployment · May 16, 2017

MarsRover said:
Woah! Really neat tank frame work! I love it!

My girlfriend and I have been trying to find examples to design what the top and bottom will look like for the tank. We already know we don't want it to look like a cabinet, more like it was built in. This is extrodinarily unique. Excellent!

Plumbing/ sump is ran into the garage through the wall

MarsRover · May 16, 2017

Shores805 said:
Is this engineering jargon?
Should we take this to the semantics of verbiage? Why not I guess, considering the history of this thread thus far. Yep Just looked. Mind blown. Last time I'll use exponentially in that context..

These systems can have siphon issues with 90's in the standpipes. Strongly adviseable to have a straight drop or 45's into the sump. If possible.

Hahaha love it. That's how you take criticism like a scientist

math jargon actually. Personally, I don't like math...I just put up with math because I need it to do what I like!

Anything is possible! Almost.... I'll probably do 45's. Straight down would require me to redesign the sump and it wouldn't be easy since the pipes come down almost in the center and I really only want to use a single return pump and yada yada yada.... I was also toying with the idea of flex hose for the end of those lines........

CoralKing24 said:
Love the system and the idea. Keep it up.

Thank you!!!!! Welcome!!!!

Ugh! Tank is coming so soon! I stupidly volunteered to work JPL open house all day, both days this weekend........so not much time for tank fun.... looks like my bulkheads came today. I also bought a plethora of different strainers for the drain lines. Not quite sure what I'm going to use on which lines yet. Still waiting for that darn 8" to 4" coupler to arrive....taking for ever.

MarsRover · May 17, 2017

Woah!!! Just kidding.... wasn't my bulkheads and strainers! It's my SCWDs!!! And they are MUCH improved from the ones I was reading about and seeing on line!!!

I don't know if it's just the 1" versions or if they just bettered their designs but check it out:

Screw off tops and everything! Fully dismantable...ugh! Engineers dream! I could totally CAD and 3D print one of these....

MarsRover · May 17, 2017

Slowly collecting things.....

justingraham · May 17, 2017

Ur going to need more things

Hey what type of sand are you going with? If ur going sps I recomend u don't do fine or three months down the road u will be switching it out like me

MarsRover · May 18, 2017

justingraham said:
Ur going to need more things

Hey what type of sand are you going with? If ur going sps I recomend u don't do fine or three months down the road u will be switching it out like me

Can you elaborate on the reason why you are switching out your fine grain sand and how that relates to sps?

I was planning on doing a mix of sizes initially....

justingraham · May 18, 2017

The smaller particle sand will blow around if you have a lot of flow in your tank (which sps love) covering your rocks and corals. The bigger grain sand will not blow around as much.

Right now I replaced about 1/3 of my original sand with bigger grit sand

MarsRover · May 18, 2017

justingraham said:
The smaller particle sand will blow around if you have a lot of flow in your tank (which sps love) covering your rocks and corals. The bigger grain sand will not blow around as much.

Right now I replaced about 1/3 of my original sand with bigger grit sand

Oh yeah, I was wondering if there was another reason you had than that.

That said, that's why I was going to go mixed. Bigger grains will support the smaller ones. That and high flow will be the top layers of the tank. I want LPS too and I was planning on keep them lower. Tall tank! Stoked

MarsRover · May 19, 2017

So, I decided yesterday to just 3D print what I needed for the base of the overflow out of ABS plastic:

805reef · May 19, 2017

looks like the print lifted, were you able to get them to stick to the bed properly? Or did it come out good enough to work for what you are doing?

MarsRover · May 19, 2017

805reef said:
looks like the print lifted, were you able to get them to stick to the bed properly? Or did it come out good enough to work for what you are doing?

Excellent eyes!

Yes, the front one lifted in the corner nearest to the door of the unit. I came in last night and had to swap in a new material Cartridge but the unit cooled slightly before I got to it. It still printed fine it looks like and I should be fine to put it together. Printing the last third right now