24/7 light on Chaeto
- Thread starter Magman
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Scotty Buttons
Valuable Member
Nope, if anything it'll help keep your PH up when you DT light is off.
There is really no reason to run lights 24/7. It will not hurt your DT as long as the ambient light does not reach the tank. Plants and animals evolved to run on a light / dark cycle. Anything photosynthetic needs a dark period that is not only science but proven in nature as well.
As per a post by @saltyfilmfolks
" You can but I wouldn't. Photosynthesis does need a rest.
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-10/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php "
As per a post by @saltyfilmfolks
" You can but I wouldn't. Photosynthesis does need a rest.
http://www.reefedition.com/ph-and-the-reef-aquarium/
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-10/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-08/eb/index.php "
The dark reaction is somewhat misnamed. It doesn't require dark, but can operate in the dark - that is it doesn't require light.
You can run the light 24/7 with no worries, although if you have low nutrients already it's a waste of money and some lights generate quite a bit of heat that builds up and can burn the macro (think chaeto and low mounted kessil h380).
Many people have run fuges 24/7 for years at a time and a lot of phytoplankton is also lit 24/7.
You can run the light 24/7 with no worries, although if you have low nutrients already it's a waste of money and some lights generate quite a bit of heat that builds up and can burn the macro (think chaeto and low mounted kessil h380).
Many people have run fuges 24/7 for years at a time and a lot of phytoplankton is also lit 24/7.
Subsea
5000 Club Member
@Magman
With the one exception of phytoplankton, all algae should be given a rest period from light. Caulerpa, not Chaetomorphy, has been run on a 24 hour light cycle because of its fast growing nature and tendency to go sexual and disintegrate.
Your question involved the display tank and would running lights 24/7 in refugium be detrimental to display. My question to you is why? What benefit do you expect?
With the one exception of phytoplankton, all algae should be given a rest period from light. Caulerpa, not Chaetomorphy, has been run on a 24 hour light cycle because of its fast growing nature and tendency to go sexual and disintegrate.
Your question involved the display tank and would running lights 24/7 in refugium be detrimental to display. My question to you is why? What benefit do you expect?
Why does Caulerpa handle 24/7 and not chaeto? I have run chaeto 24/7 in the past and it doesn't appear all that rare when searching for people to run it like that. If the macro doesn't die, and indeed grows well under constant illumination what is the specific reason it needs a "rest period" unless the tank is already low nutrient (or hitting it with too much light) what would be the exact reason to not illuminate 24/7?
Many many algae scrubbers including Turbo's (who makes the best ones imo) have run for years under 24/7. There is a post from Randy a few years ago where he ran 24/7 on his macro and didn't notice any negative results.
I am not saying it’s needed, (Turbo for non macro in scurbbers thinks 24/7 is the best),however I think the rumor that it’s harmful for the macro should not be continued.
However I do encourge people to play around the the macro photoperiod, you might get better growth/or not. It really depends on the nutrients and even elements like iron. You don't want 24/7 if you are limiting growth with low phosphate or iron!
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Subsea
5000 Club Member
No doubt it can be done. I asked you why. You quoted other people’s post but you never answered what benefits you expected.
I grow macro commercially. I have several thousand gallons in production. If you have insight as to why this is a good thing, enlighten me. Electricity cost money and heats up water which cost money to cool down.
http://www.aquacultureranch.com/
I grow macro commercially. I have several thousand gallons in production. If you have insight as to why this is a good thing, enlighten me. Electricity cost money and heats up water which cost money to cool down.
http://www.aquacultureranch.com/
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On a commercial scale things would be very different. Looking to maximize growth for minimal cost and I imagine there is quite a bit of tweaking needed to find that ratio. Particularly if one is using sunlight to supplement lighting, which I have no idea if you are or not.
For most hobbyist we are looking solely for nutrient reduction. Electricity and heat (for most) are not the biggest issues we face and are not a concern for most. 24/7 growth for some seems to have the greatest impact on nutrient reduction until the algae is limited by P,N or something like iron when it makes sense to run a reduced photoperiod, or to experiment with photoperiod if growth is poor since testing for some of those elements is problematic.
My apologies for misinterpreting your first post, I took “all algae should be given a rest period from light” as meaning one would see detrimental effects on the algae under constant illumination. I agree that depending on the particular system and goals one could see wasted energy and heat, however to the OP original question in respect to the refugium “Will 24/7 light have any negative impact on my reef?” - Aside from some heat and electricity no it shouldn’t have a negative impact.
Wrasse-cal
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Do you have insight as to if going beyond a 12 hour photoperiod (but less than 24) has negative effects on macroalgae growth? I’ve read conflicting information on this.
Subsea
5000 Club Member
Let’s go deeper into this discussion. Algae photosynthesis consumes carbon dioxide gas which causes pH to rise because there is less carbonic acid in water column. In a BRS video on refugiums using chaetomorphy, 1700 PAR raised pH to 8.8. Is pH that high a good thing? I seriously doubt this to be a good thing “long term”, but I don’t do SPS.
I do not agree with the “sacred cow” that constant pH in a reef tank is good. On the average natural reef, pH fluctuates between 8.2 and 7.8. I operate natural systems that mimic these cycles in nature. For certain, reef tanks can be operated in many different successful ways. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I operate high nutrient systems using bacteria, algae and sponges as my biofiltration platform. My goal is to maintain mixed garden lagoons with numerous filter feeders including NPS.
Video was made 5/years ago when GSP was tennis ball size. It now covers all of 75G back wall.
One year ago, I turned out the lights and removed macro from 25/year old EcoSystem mud/macro refugium and seeded with cryptic sponges.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/2...m-on-top-with-30g-ecosystem-mud-macro.421526/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wet-salty-for-christmas-2017.428100/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/mariculture-in-austin.426805/
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chemistry-of-macro.466019/
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Subsea
5000 Club Member
IMO, the best documentation available for this is BRS videos of which I have not seen the complete series. I will say this from personal experience, the extra photosynthesis produces excessive DOC. DOC will grow bacteria. Is more bacteria better? It depends on the system. While I consider their testing to be good, I would like to see extended test with an integrated mature system.
Subsea
5000 Club Member
@hart24601
Biochemistry is complex. Nutrient reduction in a reef tank is complex. DOC is a byproduct of photosynthesis. There are thousands of possible combinations of dissolved organic compounds that are not readily consumed by the average reef tank. One example would be yellow stained water.
Within the water column, bacteria are consuming animal and algae protein to build amino acids. It is a complex soup. OP tank at 2 months old is not likely to benefit from large infusion of DOC. More than likely, tank will suffer from a bacteria bloom. Of course, a protein skimmer will remove bacteria after they have consumed DOC or use GAC. Adding more equipment to counter increase in DOC, in my opinion, makes little sense. I am a minimalist that believes in keeping it simple.
Biochemistry is complex. Nutrient reduction in a reef tank is complex. DOC is a byproduct of photosynthesis. There are thousands of possible combinations of dissolved organic compounds that are not readily consumed by the average reef tank. One example would be yellow stained water.
Within the water column, bacteria are consuming animal and algae protein to build amino acids. It is a complex soup. OP tank at 2 months old is not likely to benefit from large infusion of DOC. More than likely, tank will suffer from a bacteria bloom. Of course, a protein skimmer will remove bacteria after they have consumed DOC or use GAC. Adding more equipment to counter increase in DOC, in my opinion, makes little sense. I am a minimalist that believes in keeping it simple.
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Subsea
5000 Club Member
Get some academia people involved in this google search. I already know what works, but my experience is not a research paper.
Believe me, I know it's complex. I have been a microbiologist for 15 years plus although the day to day work is really molecular biology and biochemistry at this point since the technology has advanced so fast and so far – and I recently moved into data analytics so that world is behind me. But previously worked on bacterial inoculants so community profiling (via next gen sequencing) and expression analysis (via RNA seq) with the changes to those over time hold a particular interest to me in this hobby although that analysis is still too expensive to be used with this hobby currently.
But we are getting into the weeds a bit. That conversation would perhaps be more in place with a question of “what type of nutrient export is best for me” with discussion of refugiums, carbon dosing, skimming, UV, ozone" and such. For this thread I don’t think 18 (for example) vs 24hr in this system of macro lighting is going to have any meaningful impact to the system in general unless the nutrients get very low.
Subsea
5000 Club Member
My comment addressed the generic question by the OP, “was there any harm”. I addressed possible scenarios. This is not a newbie forum. I have quite a lot of experience with seaweeds. I do talk with microbiologist about the chemistry often. The water gets deep fast. I don’t have a problem with that. I am here to learn. The devil is in the details. Details matter, which is why I brought up DOC.
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Subsea
5000 Club Member
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/seagrass-aquarium-at-the-ocean-discovery-visitors-center.444340/
You should consider following this individual at Harbor Research Oceanography Institute in Florida. Facility is located at Indian River Lagoon. For me, his sponge exhibit thread is most interesting. This thread is from academia point of view. He has access to doctorate staff that are doing on going research. Inquiring minds want to know.
http://www.iaeng.org/publication/WCE2012/WCE2012_pp608-610.pdf
http://circadiana.blogspot.com/2005/02/clock-tutorial-6-to-entrain-or-not-to.html
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369526616301686?via=ihub#abs0005
It is also mentioned the book Aquarium Plants by Peter Hiscock
Many plants that we eat would not flower without some sort of dark period. The reproduction phase triggered by light and temp.
It has to do with the circadiana clock built into plants, algae and bacteria.
I belive that if a plant spends all the time in the photosynthesis phase it has limited time to actually grow. Taken from my experience with fresh water aquatic planted tanks.
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