3% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) dosing for parasites in a mixed reef tank (132G/500L)

[Saltees]

OCT23(DAY24) - Melanarus Wrasse and the last blue eye anthias bite the dust. Both were hiding when I left on Friday OCT21. Now yet another Anthia is behaving as such, it's really discouraging to see them dropping like flies. H2O2 levels is consistently dropping to 0.05ppm after 30mins of 1.5ppm dosing.

2M4 2F Lyretail Anthia (Pseudanthias squamipinnis)
2M Hutchii Anthia (Pseudanthias huchtii)
2F Hutomo’s Anthia (Pseudanthias hutomoi)
1M1F Dispar Anthia (Pseudanthias dispar)
1M1F Evansi Anthia (Pseudanthias evansi)
2F Bismaculatus Anthia (Pseudanthias bimaculatus)
2 Borbonius Anthia (Odontanthias borbonius)
3 Diamond Watchman Goby (Valenciennea puellaris)
2 1 Mccullochi Clownfish (Amphiprion mccullochi)
2 Banana Moray (Gymnothorax milaris)
2 1 Red Dartfish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
1 Japanese Pygmy Angel (Centropyge interruptus)
1 Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon)
1 Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum)
1 Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)
1 Gem Tang (Zebrasoma gemmatum)
1 Whitetail Bristletooth Tang (Ctenochaetus flavicauda)
1 Mystery Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus ocellatus)
1 China Tamarin Wrasse (Anampses neoguinaicus)
1 Aqua Marine Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus)
1 Radiant Wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
1 Melanurus Wrasse (Halichoeres melanurus)
1 Red Sea Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides quadrilineatus)
1 Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides dimidiatus)
1 Purple Tilefish (Hoplolatilus purpureus)
1 Springer Damsel (Chrysiptera springeri)
1 Longnose Hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
1 Valentini Sharpnose Puffer (Canthigaster valentini)
1 Bristletail Filefish (Acreichthys tomentosus)

Next week, if the situation is not improving, I will be preparing and not delaying the inevitable... to COPPER the whole system!

1. A IKEA SAMLA 45L box to hold my corals,
2. Another for my pair of eel to do HTTM, and
3. Another for my 5kg SIPORAX BIO media w Macro Algae.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

OCT23(DAY24) - Melanarus Wrasse and the last blue eye anthias bite the dust. Both were hiding when I left on Friday OCT21. Now yet another Anthia is behaving as such, it's really discouraging to see them dropping like flies. H2O2 levels is consistently dropping to 0.05ppm after 30mins of 1.5ppm dosing.

2M4 2F Lyretail Anthia (Pseudanthias squamipinnis)
2M Hutchii Anthia (Pseudanthias huchtii)
2F Hutomo’s Anthia (Pseudanthias hutomoi)
1M1F Dispar Anthia (Pseudanthias dispar)
1M1F Evansi Anthia (Pseudanthias evansi)
2F Bismaculatus Anthia (Pseudanthias bimaculatus)
2 Borbonius Anthia (Odontanthias borbonius)
3 Diamond Watchman Goby (Valenciennea puellaris)
2 1 Mccullochi Clownfish (Amphiprion mccullochi)
2 Banana Moray (Gymnothorax milaris)
2 1 Red Dartfish (Nemateleotris magnifica)
1 Japanese Pygmy Angel (Centropyge interruptus)
1 Powder Blue Tang (Acanthurus leucosternon)
1 Purple Tang (Zebrasoma xanthurum)
1 Yellow Tang (Zebrasoma flavescens)
1 Gem Tang (Zebrasoma gemmatum)
1 Whitetail Bristletooth Tang (Ctenochaetus flavicauda)
1 Mystery Wrasse (Pseudocheilinus ocellatus)
1 China Tamarin Wrasse (Anampses neoguinaicus)
1 Aqua Marine Fairy Wrasse (Cirrhilabrus aquamarinus)
1 Radiant Wrasse (Halichoeres iridis)
1 Melanurus Wrasse (Halichoeres melanurus)
1 Red Sea Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides quadrilineatus)
1 Bluestreak Cleaner Wrasse (Labroides dimidiatus)
1 Purple Tilefish (Hoplolatilus purpureus)
1 Springer Damsel (Chrysiptera springeri)
1 Longnose Hawkfish (Oxycirrhites typus)
1 Valentini Sharpnose Puffer (Canthigaster valentini)
1 Bristletail Filefish (Acreichthys tomentosus)

Next week, if the situation is not improving, I will be preparing and not delaying the inevitable... to COPPER the whole system!

1. A IKEA SAMLA 45L box to hold my corals,
2. Another for my pair of eel to do HTTM, and
3. Another for my 5kg SIPORAX BIO media w Macro Algae.

Sorry to hear. Just a word of caution - starting copper late in an infection is problematic. I've found that once fish loss has begun, copper cannot always stop the infection in time to prevent further fish loss. It takes a minimum of 3 days for copper to clear an infection, and with deep-seated infections it can take much longer.

Also, the type of copper you use is important, as is how fast you can get the dose up to full, and what you are testing it with. I would recommend Coppersafe or Copper Power, at full dose within 24 hours, measured with a Hanna high range meter.

Jay

 

[Saltees]

Sorry to hear. Just a word of caution - starting copper late in an infection is problematic. I've found that once fish loss has begun, copper cannot always stop the infection in time to prevent further fish loss. It takes a minimum of 3 days for copper to clear an infection, and with deep-seated infections it can take much longer.

Also, the type of copper you use is important, as is how fast you can get the dose up to full, and what you are testing it with. I would recommend Coppersafe or Copper Power, at full dose within 24 hours, measured with a Hanna high range meter.

Jay

Yes, I have both Copper Power and Hanna Checker Copper HR ready to go, once my containers are up.

 

[Bolek]

For me h2o2 has worked perfectly, after a few week all fish are good. And the concentration was also dropping in 30 minutes down to zero. But I have dosed 1.5ppm doses all through the night to keep it at that level, so that the parasite would be killed when enters water column between 2-9am. All corals were good, so you may consider also this

 

[Saltees]

For me h2o2 has worked perfectly, after a few week all fish are good. And the concentration was also dropping in 30 minutes down to zero. But I have dosed 1.5ppm doses all through the night to keep it at that level, so that the parasite would be killed when enters water column between 2-9am. All corals were good, so you may consider also this

Again I’m glad it worked perfectly for you.

If I read you right, you are advocating to go full dose on the hour during 2-9am (8hrs of night dosing instead of the usual 6hrs), and that’s 8X of the day dosing amount from the prescribed 2X of the day dosing amount for the “rain” mode.

I doubt I’ll be taking that liberty with my life stocks, especially when I’m not around to test at those hours.

I will however for the coming week, raise my night (rain) dosing to 3-4X of the day dosing, instead of the prescribed 2X.

FWIW, I did run my schedule with 6 hourly “bombs” followed by 6hrs of night “rain” at Jessican thread prior embarking on the journey.

I’m NOT through with H2O2 dosing yet, I just need to prepare for the worst as with any other experiment.

BTW all of my encrusting corals have taken on a drab color and lost a few more heads of torches since last reported.

 

[Saltees]

@Bolek Taking note of the hatching hours of ICH 2-9am, I’ll be switching to the new schedule for the remaining leg of my H2O2 dosing. Maximizing my “24 doses per day” REDSEA DOSE4.


CURRENT SCHEDULE
0100 - 3ml
0120 - 3ml
0140 - 3ml
0200 - 3ml
0220 - 3ml
0240 - 3ml
0300 - 3ml
0320 - 3ml
0340 - 3ml
0400 - 3ml
0420 - 3ml
0440 - 3ml
0500 - 3ml
0520 - 3ml
0540 - 3ml
0600 - 3ml
0620 - 3ml
0640 - 3ml
0700 - 27ml
1300 - 27ml
1900 - 27ml

NEW SCHEDULE
0200 - 4.5ml
0220 - 4.5ml
0240 - 4.5ml
0300 - 4.5ml
0320 - 4.5ml
0340 - 4.5ml
0400 - 4.5ml
0420 - 4.5ml
0440 - 4.5ml
0500 - 4.5ml
0520 - 4.5ml
0540 - 4.5ml
0600 - 4.5ml
0620 - 4.5ml
0640 - 4.5ml
0700 - 4.5ml
0720 - 4.5ml
0740 - 4.5ml
0800 - 4.5ml
0820 - 4.5ml
0840 - 4.5ml
0900 - 4.5ml
1400 - 27ml
2000 - 27ml

 

[Bolek]

Yes, I have increased the hourly night dosing to the daily one - dosing 1mL/5gal every hour. I see that you are now at 50% of the daily dose (3x4.5ml compared to 27ml).

To check it does not accumulate, maybe if you can check only at the morning - at 9am, at last dose, you can see if it accumulate. I was dosing at 1.5ppm and as the morning reading was the same 1.5ppm as a normal standalone dose, it was safe for me (even though just to be sure i have checked also throughout the night, but this you cannot). So if you could check at 9am and it is not reading more, you could keep on increasing the dose.

Keeping fingers crossed to save you fish

PS. After ca. 5 days that all fish were good, i decreased the dose, so now I am during night exactly on your schedule (but now none of the fishes have visible parasites)

@Bolek Taking note of the hatching hours of ICH 2-9am, I’ll be switching to the new schedule for the remaining leg of my H2O2 dosing. Maximizing my “24 doses per day” REDSEA DOSE4.


CURRENT SCHEDULE
0100 - 3ml
0120 - 3ml
0140 - 3ml
0200 - 3ml
0220 - 3ml
0240 - 3ml
0300 - 3ml
0320 - 3ml
0340 - 3ml
0400 - 3ml
0420 - 3ml
0440 - 3ml
0500 - 3ml
0520 - 3ml
0540 - 3ml
0600 - 3ml
0620 - 3ml
0640 - 3ml
0700 - 27ml
1300 - 27ml
1900 - 27ml

NEW SCHEDULE
0200 - 4.5ml
0220 - 4.5ml
0240 - 4.5ml
0300 - 4.5ml
0320 - 4.5ml
0340 - 4.5ml
0400 - 4.5ml
0420 - 4.5ml
0440 - 4.5ml
0500 - 4.5ml
0520 - 4.5ml
0540 - 4.5ml
0600 - 4.5ml
0620 - 4.5ml
0640 - 4.5ml
0700 - 4.5ml
0720 - 4.5ml
0740 - 4.5ml
0800 - 4.5ml
0820 - 4.5ml
0840 - 4.5ml
0900 - 4.5ml
1400 - 27ml
2000 - 27ml

 

[Saltees]

Yes, I have increased the hourly night dosing to the daily one - dosing 1mL/5gal every hour. I see that you are now at 50% of the daily dose (3x4.5ml compared to 27ml).

To check it does not accumulate, maybe if you can check only at the morning - at 9am, at last dose, you can see if it accumulate. I was dosing at 1.5ppm and as the morning reading was the same 1.5ppm as a normal standalone dose, it was safe for me (even though just to be sure i have checked also throughout the night, but this you cannot). So if you could check at 9am and it is not reading more, you could keep on increasing the dose.

Keeping fingers crossed to save you fish

PS. After ca. 5 days that all fish were good, i decreased the dose, so now I am during night exactly on your schedule (but now none of the fishes have visible parasites)

Thanks! How low did you throttle you night dosing back after 5 days of going at 1.5ppm hourly 2am-9am?

 

[Bolek]

After ramp up, I was dosing 1 mL per 3gallon every hour (in two doses, every 30 minutes 1mL per 6gal). After the biggest outbreak was off I reduced by half, to where I started, 1mL per 5gallon every hour (in two doses, every 30 minutes 1mL per 10 gal).

PS. This was still a 3x more to original plan of Jessica - she was dosing (on hourly base) 1/3 of the daily dose(e.g. 1mL per 15 gallon). Now, as everything is ok, I plan to reduce to this original Jessica dose, and continue additional 3-4 weeks or even longer

PPS. During the outbreak I also had higher daily "bombs" - at 1mL per 3 gallon, 3 times aday, then I reduced it to recommended by Jessica 1mL per 5 gallon

 

[Saltees]

After ramp up, I was dosing 1 mL per 3gallon every hour (in two doses, every 30 minutes 1mL per 6gal). After the biggest outbreak was off I reduced by half, to where I started, 1mL per 5gallon every hour (in two doses, every 30 minutes 1mL per 10 gal).

PS. This was still a 3x more to original plan of Jessica - she was dosing (on hourly base) 1/3 of the daily dose(e.g. 1mL per 15 gallon). Now, as everything is ok, I plan to reduce to this original Jessica dose, and continue additional 3-4 weeks or even longer

PPS. During the outbreak I also had higher daily "bombs" - at 1mL per 3 gallon, 3 times aday, then I reduced it to recommended by Jessica 1mL per 5 gallon

Right. Im also contemplating to up the day dose "bomb" to 1ml/3gal (44ml) from 1m/5gal (27ml) since i only doing 2, once in mid day and another one at lights out. The first light "bomb" is substituted with the additional hour of "rain" at 8-9am. Insofar as my testing goes at 9.20am today, 20mins after the 7 hours of "rain" (2-9am), its at 0.05ppm.

OCT25(DAY26) - Fishes are out and about. No fish and coral death since yesterday. Tangs are at still enjoying their daily cleaning by the cleaner wrasse. On a good note, the other fishes are NOT seeking the service of the cleaner wrasse as they used to early on the treatment.

 

[Saltees]

Took me 20+ pics to capture this… there is a sheen/coating of very fine bubbles on the whole fish (look for the area closer to the tail), highly visible on dark colored fishes such as PT.

Whether good or bad are the direct cause of H2O2. White spots (ICH) is very much around if I am to look for it actively.

I’m getting the feel of H2O2 dosing and it's limits.

BTW, all the shrimps are gone, cleaner and peppermint…AIPTASIA RULES.

 

[Saltees]

@Jay Hemdal What are your thoughts on apply COPPER @ 2.5ppm on my fishes directly in my display tank for 90 days or lesser (in your opinion) as a reset? Of course, I will only do that after coral and eel removal.

At 2.5ppm COPPER, I'm hoping to eradicate all the AIPTASIA that's lurking in my overflow and all.

For corals and inverts, it will be in a fallow in another tank for the same period as the fishes remain in copper in the display.

Eels... I'll be running them through HTTM with Prazipro in the process as well.

Just for info, would you copper your eels? Would SEACHEM PARAGUARD prophylactically for a month or two be a safer alternative?

Thank you in advance!

 

[Saltees]

Just sharing...as and when I can catch the fishes, I have successfully treat ICH, Velvet and/or Brooklynella using a 13 day 24hr TTM using Fresh Mixed Salt Water, SEACHEM PARAGUARD and IKEA SAMLA 22L Storage Box with its dedicated air stone.

Thereafter, I will deworm with PRAZIPRO accordingly for another 2 weeks, while observing for any runaway parasite.

Prior to start of TTM, in between TTM and Deworm, right before introduction to display, I will do a 150ppm H2O2 dip for 30mins.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal What are your thoughts on apply COPPER @ 2.5ppm on my fishes directly in my display tank for 90 days or lesser (in your opinion) as a reset? Of course, I will only do that after coral and eel removal.

At 2.5ppm COPPER, I'm hoping to eradicate all the AIPTASIA that's lurking in my overflow and all.

For corals and inverts, it will be in a fallow in another tank for the same period as the fishes remain in copper in the display.

Eels... I'll be running them through HTTM with Prazipro in the process as well.

Just for info, would you copper your eels? Would SEACHEM PARAGUARD prophylactically for a month or two be a safer alternative?

Thank you in advance!

Coppersafe or Copper Power for 30 days beyond the date of the last trophont is seen on the fish is what you should do. However, as I said, starting copper after you have already seen fish loss is not a good scenario. You will most likely see additional fish loss, and this could be pretty severe. Think of this; if the H2O2 is holding the ich somewhat at bay, and you stop that and start copper. The copper takes at least 3 days to really begin to work, even if you get to a full dose in the first half a day. There is then that time when the fish are essentially not being treated and will really start to die off.

Also, Copper may not eradicate Aiptasia. If you want to control Aiptasia and ich at the same time, consider chloroquine. That would also take care of the eel issue because you could dose it at the same time. However, chloroquine kills all of the microfauna in a tank, You might see an ammonia rise if you treat with that.

I've used coppersafe on eels. If the eel is in good shape to begin with, they usually survive fine, but may og off feed for a month or two.

Jay

 

[Saltees]

Coppersafe or Copper Power for 30 days beyond the date of the last trophont is seen on the fish is what you should do. However, as I said, starting copper after you have already seen fish loss is not a good scenario. You will most likely see additional fish loss, and this could be pretty severe. Think of this; if the H2O2 is holding the ich somewhat at bay, and you stop that and start copper. The copper takes at least 3 days to really begin to work, even if you get to a full dose in the first half a day. There is then that time when the fish are essentially not being treated and will really start to die off.

Also, Copper may not eradicate Aiptasia. If you want to control Aiptasia and ich at the same time, consider chloroquine. That would also take care of the eel issue because you could dose it at the same time. However, chloroquine kills all of the microfauna in a tank, You might see an ammonia rise if you treat with that.

I've used coppersafe on eels. If the eel is in good shape to begin with, they usually survive fine, but may og off feed for a month or two.

Jay

Thanks yet again for the advice and caution. Chloroquine is hard to get now.

Any complication of running H2O2 during the first 3 days of copper? I’m rushing to start my holding tanks as I type. I need a week more before I copper.

I recall reading somewhere that you had put fishes through copper for 6 months without issues, I beg your pardon if I’m wrong.

Cheers!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks yet again for the advice and caution. Chloroquine is hard to get now.

Any complication of running H2O2 during the first 3 days of copper? I’m rushing to start my holding tanks as I type. I need a week more before I copper.

I recall reading somewhere that you had put fishes through copper for 6 months without issues, I beg your pardon if I’m wrong.

Cheers!

I’ve never run H2O2 and copper together. You might need to research if the peroxide would break the copper/amine bond. I know reducing agents can do that with Cupramine, but the chemistry is complex so I wouldn’t be able to advise you on that.
Yes - I ran coppersafe for 6 months on a retail system back in the early 1980s. I was doing a mortality rate study, so I had some control fish in the system that whole time with no mortality. I use that as an extreme example when somebody tells me that they only want to run copper for two weeks…and I need to show them that isn’t an issue.

Jay

 

[Dierks]

Do not run Copper and H2O2 together.

 

[Saltees]

I’ve never run H2O2 and copper together. You might need to research if the peroxide would break the copper/amine bond. I know reducing agents can do that with Cupramine, but the chemistry is complex so I wouldn’t be able to advise you on that.
Yes - I ran coppersafe for 6 months on a retail system back in the early 1980s. I was doing a mortality rate study, so I had some control fish in the system that whole time with no mortality. I use that as an extreme example when somebody tells me that they only want to run copper for two weeks…and I need to show them that isn’t an issue.

Jay

Good to know it's ok for longer treatment for Copper, what's holding me back from going forth with the treatment, is my coming month++ travel schedule.

Do not run Copper and H2O2 together.

Just curious, why not with chelated copper? BTW thank you very much for the head up!

 

[Dierks]

Good to know it's ok for longer treatment for Copper, what's holding me back from going forth with the treatment, is my coming month++ travel schedule.

Just curious, why not with chelated copper? BTW thank you very much for the head up!

As Jay was saying it actually breaks apart the bond from my understanding. I guess I can't say for certain but I don't know of anyone that has been brave enough to find out. Also with H2O2 leaving the system so quickly really, there is no point.

 

[clhardy5]

The h202 method described by Jessica on Humblefish 100% worked for me, and my entire fish population was covered with ich, and everything cleared up after 3 weeks of dosing following her instructions. I still have 2 weeks left of dosing left to ensure everything is wiped out, and have been running my UV sterilizer 24/7 at 6 watts per gallon with a turnover rate of 3x per hour to aid in controlling the outbreak. I did not lose a single fish in my display, but did lose all 3 fish that I had in my sump. I'm not sure if the h202 lost it's effectiveness before going into the sump to kill off the parasites, or if the it was too effective and killed the 3 fish that I was isolating in the middle chamber. This included a golden hawkfish, achilles tang, and tinkeri hybrid that I was either going to sell or hold until I introduced the incoming fish.

Anyone skeptical of this should read all of the feedback on this method, and I too was skeptical before trying it myself. Unfortunately the does isn't high enough to kill off bryopsis or AEFW, and I had to employ other methods to address those issues.

I also had good success with Jessica's Humble fish method...and a post DNA test shows no parasites including ICK are in my tank. I did not lose any fish, my bubble tip anemones, or any coral during the treatment - I have LPS and softies for the most part...However, I did lose both my fire shrimp and cleaner shrimp about half way through. I ramped the H2O2 up slowly, and kept dosing and using the UV for about 2 months after I saw the last spots - and before re-testing the tank. I haven't dosed or used UV for about 4 months - and the tank is doing well. I did start treatment EARLY - ie....only my powder brown and hippo had spots at first. Eventually, my sailfish also showed signs of ick...none of my other fish every had spots (clowns, royal gramma, damsels, blend, goby, mandarin). I don't know if the very early treatment or luck helped me the most....but all in all, I was pleased with how well the H2O2 treatment worked.