4,100k 315w ceramic metal halide for coral growth

Lousybreed

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Ok so Adam from battlecorals talks about how much he loves 6500k metal halides. So it got me thinking. These 315w CMH bulbs are certified to last 2.4 times longer than a halide. And they exhibit less spectrum shift over their life time. Currently they are the most efficient hid bulb on the market and also the PAR champion as well.
Here is what I am thinking. Use these in combo with blue LED light bars to balance out the spectrum to approximate 6500k light. This would be for a coral growout system. Thoughts?
 

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Ok so Adam from battlecorals talks about how much he loves 6500k metal halides. So it got me thinking. These 315w CMH bulbs are certified to last 2.4 times longer than a halide. And they exhibit less spectrum shift over their life time. Currently they are the most efficient hid bulb on the market and also the PAR champion as well.
Here is what I am thinking. Use these in combo with blue LED light bars to balance out the spectrum to approximate 6500k light. This would be for a coral growout system. Thoughts?
I too have wondered why these haven’t been used. People not wanting to defy convention I guess
 

JoshH

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Maybe it's because they are 4100k bulbs? I'm only guessing TBH, with almost 2.5 times the expected lifetime I would think more would be on them...

Do you think you could get a good spectrum blend doing it?

@jda
 

oreo5457

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That's a lot of orange/red to compensate for..
cmh4200.JPG


If my "research" into bulb history is accurate.. sort of going backwards to the "old days". ;)
 

GlassMunky

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Maybe it's because they are 4100k bulbs? I'm only guessing TBH, with almost 2.5 times the expected lifetime I would think more would be on them...

Do you think you could get a good spectrum blend doing it?

@jda
I think you mean 3100K
and ifso, those bulbs have a CRI of like 92-98 (the Sun is a CRI of 100)
so these bulbs are basically like lighting your tank with the sun. thats why people in the horticulture/ag fields use them.
 

oreo5457

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I’ve seen them in 6500k on plenty of horticulture sites.

I know the comment was made in jest Oreo, but At this point I will be so bold as to say literally any reef tank hobbyist still using metal halide bulbs is FULLY aware of led options on the market.
Actually was referring to Sanjay and using 4000k hps bulbs that I read somewhere..just because they were easily available and high output..
Has nothing to do w/ LED's AT all..

To be clear my "thinking" in general is that quantity of photons and husbandry is more crucial than spectrum..
Thus all lighting is "sort of" equal to grow "stuff" be it salt,fresh, or terrestrial.

Now one can nit pick w/ the rest..or argue the best ect.. but pretty sure people have successfully grown corals in that spectrum range..
 
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Bpb

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I’ve looked into them a bit. You’re basically facing a similar cost to entry as you would a typical hobby grade metal halide setup. Ballasts and pendants are going to vary but usually be in the. 300-500 range per pair, sometimes cheaper just depending on where you shop and what wattage you’re looking for.
 

JoshH

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I’ve looked into them a bit. You’re basically facing a similar cost to entry as you would a typical hobby grade metal halide setup. Ballasts and pendants are going to vary but usually be in the. 300-500 range per pair, sometimes cheaper just depending on where you shop and what wattage you’re looking for.
That's not bad atall. And the added lifespan on the bulbs makes it an appealing option...
 
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Lousybreed

Lousybreed

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Great discussion everyone! I will clear up several things. The bulbs that have a higher kelvin rating than 4200k are normal metal halides that have the CMH base. The only true CMH bulbs are in the 3,000-3,200K and 4,100-4,200K. I contacted phillips directly. This one is my absolute favorite, this company seems to focus on making high quality equipment. This one (fixture, ballast, and bulb) can be had for $400.

My plan would be to do one to one ratio of that CMH grow light with the 4,100k bulb and this:
You can get this fixture with all blue LED ( actually you can choose between royal blue and full spectrum blue).

Together I feel that the spectrum would be an amazing 6,500-8,000k and would grow the heck out of corals. Plus it would be very economical from a propagation point of view.

I do this the reefing community is scared to do something different. I also don't think data is used to make our decisions. I will say in my T-5 set up I am using Hortilux's full spectrum T-5 bulb with UV-A and UV-B (they kick out a ton of UV! better than any halide or led) and my corals look great. The color is evolving on the corals. When the T-5 turn off and the royal blues turn on, the changes are very apparent.
 

oreo5457

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Efficiency is in the area of 100L/ watt.. Current LEDs can beat that by 50% .. and lifespan by possibly a decade..
Not really seeing the point.
In that color temp range you could go w/ an led high bay light..
Note though one should get a better CRI to be more equiv. to the CMH
10 yr warranty 90 CRI @5000K
Dimmable..
Sadly does look to be $1200 though.. :)
Cheap one:
https://www.beeslighting.com/UFO-300W-UV-50K-BZ?keyword={bkeyword}&creative={bcreative}&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpNW7gJ2u5gIV0_7jBx16Nwc-EAkYGiABEgKyC_D_BwE
130L/watt 30% more efficient than CMH
As to blending 2 large output fixtures like that.. well a bit messy...
 
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oreo5457

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I agree blending two large fixtures would be cumbersome. But I don’t care about efficiency frankly. That quality is probably dead last on my list of concerns when growing coral. Second to last is fixture aesthetics.

Yea sort of agree. Only comes into play atm if one wants to match photons or argue which is cheaper..:)
This 300 watt LED high bay produces 39000 lumens and 5000K cool white color
As compared to the CMH you have more err.. headroom and being dimmable a way to save "some" albeit small expense..and to really compare lights. well sans delivery efficiency..

300W "a" vs 300W "b" needs more info...................
 

oreo5457

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the reefing community is scared to do something different.
A common misconception about higher Kelvin light bulbs is that they don’t necessarily have more blue than lower Kelvin bulbs that appear more yellow. The blue light in these bulbs is achieved by reducing the red, green, and yellow phosphors. It’s entirely possible for a 6,500K yellow looking bulb to have a great deal more blue spectrum available for photosynthesis than a 20,000K bulb.
Think 6500k is about the "limit of acceptance" to visual appeal and though low K "tests" aren't commonly available the current data leads one to stop at 6500k.

will 4000k grow things better than 6500k?
Certainly won't look better.
you need to like yellow.. ;)
There is very little argument that the more blue the better. There is argument as to how much of other colors..

you could be the most recent (like I said I'm SURE it's been done) to try.
 
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