60 Gallon Cube & Ecotech Radion XR15 G6 PAR

[trevorhiller]

I recently switched from a Kessil a360x + Reef Brite combo to a Ecotech Radion XR15G6. I wanted a more streamlined fixture and the Kessil shimmer was irritating my migraines. I debated about getting the XR30, but I want a mixed reef and told myself the 15 would be adequate if I kept the SPS at the top of the aquascape. Boy was that a mistake! The PAR rapidly falls off with any significant depth. I ordered an Apogee MQ-510 Par meter that came today and took some preliminary readings. I was barely getting 100 par anywhere on my scape in the tank. I lowered the light down to 4.5” above the water line and still the highest im getting is around 160 par at the very top of my aqua scape.

I will say the evenness of the XR15G6 is crazy. There are no hot spots whatsoever. The 12” from sandbed to the top of my scape is only about 65-75 par difference and there is hardly any difference at all left to right of light center throughout the various levels of my scape.

I’m sort of regretting buying a cube tank because it takes so but live and learn! Always go more than what you think is adequate for lighting. It looks like I’m going to be rapidly upgrading to the XR30 +/- ReefBrite supplements.

I think the G6 would really shine on a wider flatter tank, but for a cube it leaves a lot to be desired PAR-wise.

Perhaps I was expecting too much of this light but I feel like BRS over represents the PAR readings of the XR15s by recording just below the surface of the water.
Hopefully this will help someone else save some money down the line. The XR15 G6 would be ideal for a 60 cube softy/LPS tank, but for any SPS— go XR30.

 

[oreo54]

Too bad you don't like it whiter. You are wasting 25% of the available par, well something like that.

 

[trevorhiller]

Too bad you don't like it whiter. You are wasting 25% of the available par, well something like that.

I do actually like it whiter, but I’m slowly ramping them up. I was expecting more par than my previous setup and had a hair algae problem previously so I didn’t want to go super white from the start. I was worried about blasting them with too much light, but honestly I’m not sure if a par jump of 25-50 needs to be done as slow as I’ve been going.

That’ll help a bit once they are maxed out but probably get me to just barely 200 at the very top.

 

[Reeferadicto]

I run an xr15 g5 blue on a small cube (14x14x14) and at 75% intensity I get 300 par on my sandbed, light is 9 inches above water line

I recently switched from a Kessil a360x + Reef Brite combo to a Ecotech Radion XR15G6. I wanted a more streamlined fixture and the Kessil shimmer was irritating my migraines. I debated about getting the XR30, but I want a mixed reef and told myself the 15 would be adequate if I kept the SPS at the top of the aquascape. Boy was that a mistake! The PAR rapidly falls off with any significant depth. I ordered an Apogee MQ-510 Par meter that came today and took some preliminary readings. I was barely getting 100 par anywhere on my scape in the tank. I lowered the light down to 4.5” above the water line and still the highest im getting is around 160 par at the very top of my aqua scape.

I will say the evenness of the XR15G6 is crazy. There are no hot spots whatsoever. The 12” from sandbed to the top of my scape is only about 65-75 par difference and there is hardly any difference at all left to right of light center throughout the various levels of my scape.

I’m sort of regretting buying a cube tank because it takes so but live and learn! Always go more than what you think is adequate for lighting. It looks like I’m going to be rapidly upgrading to the XR30 +/- ReefBrite supplements.

I think the G6 would really shine on a wider flatter tank, but for a cube it leaves a lot to be desired PAR-wise.

Perhaps I was expecting too much of this light but I feel like BRS over represents the PAR readings of the XR15s by recording just below the surface of the water.
Hopefully this will help someone else save some money down the line. The XR15 G6 would be ideal for a 60 cube softy/LPS tank, but for any SPS— go XR30.

 

[oreo54]

I run an xr15 g5 blue on a small cube (14x14x14) and at 75% intensity I get 300 par on my sandbed, light is 9 inches above water line

g5 vs g6 are very different animals..

 

[oreo54]

I do actually like it whiter, but I’m slowly ramping them up. I was expecting more par than my previous setup and had a hair algae problem previously so I didn’t want to go super white from the start. I was worried about blasting them with too much light, but honestly I’m not sure if a par jump of 25-50 needs to be done as slow as I’ve been going.

That’ll help a bit once they are maxed out but probably get me to just barely 200 at the very top.

Your readings are not surprising. This vid will give some insights into "Why".
Funny, at one point I was playing with how to estimate fw leds par using just wattage.
Obviously there would be a lot of "slack" but it was "something" over the usual nothing.
Found in general and using 120 degree emitters (like apparently the g6) many fixtures had a par to watt ratio at 18" of like 1-1.5 depending on diode/design quality.
G6 is 95 watts.
You are running about 80w
120 PAR at 18" light to sensor.

Out of personal curiosity do you have a measurement at about 18" total light face to sensor?

I don't know what BRS came up with..

BTW this used xr30's

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

I went with 2 xr15 g6 pros for my 50g and was also shocked how low the par was. I tried to crank up my whites but that killed a couple of my favorite acropora Tenuis. So I had to add a 3rd to get enough par without cranking up the whites.

 

[trevorhiller]

Your readings are not surprising. This vid will give some insights into "Why".
Funny, at one point I was playing with how to estimate fw leds par using just wattage.
Obviously there would be a lot of "slack" but it was "something" over the usual nothing.
Found in general and using 120 degree emitters (like apparently the g6) many fixtures had a par to watt ratio at 18" of like 1-1.5 depending on diode/design quality.
G6 is 95 watts.
You are running about 80w
120 PAR at 18" light to sensor.

Out of personal curiosity do you have a measurement at about 18" total light face to sensor?

I don't know what BRS came up with..

BTW this used xr30's

Not specifically without remeasuring but by pictures above it would be around 120. 18” from the light face would be just above the 115 measurement in the picture.

I went with 2 xr15 g6 pros for my 50g and was also shocked how low the par was. I tried to crank up my whites but that killed a couple of my favorite acropora Tenuis. So I had to add a 3rd to get enough par without cranking up the whites.

Unfortunately I can’t add multiple mounts easily to my tank because of the way the CADE overflow and ATO reservoir are on the back. It pretty much has room for one mount and even a single RMS won’t fit (if you want it centered). I had to use a Kessil mount and adapt the Radion mounting bracket to work with it. This makes adding a second Radion a PITA. So I think the XR30 is the best option.

 

[trevorhiller]

Your readings are not surprising. This vid will give some insights into "Why".
Funny, at one point I was playing with how to estimate fw leds par using just wattage.
Obviously there would be a lot of "slack" but it was "something" over the usual nothing.
Found in general and using 120 degree emitters (like apparently the g6) many fixtures had a par to watt ratio at 18" of like 1-1.5 depending on diode/design quality.
G6 is 95 watts.
You are running about 80w
120 PAR at 18" light to sensor.

Out of personal curiosity do you have a measurement at about 18" total light face to sensor?

I don't know what BRS came up with..

BTW this used xr30's

He’s getting 130 about 1 foot deep on a 4 foot tank. Same as I’m getting on my 2 foot cube with the 15.

It sounds like you need more of these lights for a smaller space to hit the PAR numbers many people like. IMO, the people who make out well are softie/LPS which I’m sure you could use one XR30 over a 4 foot tank and be fine.

I’m thinking if I wanted to hit the 300s I would almost need 2 XR30s or a ReefBrite-type supplement.

Maybe on G7 they can keep the same reflectors but make a XR60 for a wider panel for best of both worlds.

 

[Hydrored]

I went with 2 xr15 g6 pros for my 50g and was also shocked how low the par was. I tried to crank up my whites but that killed a couple of my favorite acropora Tenuis. So I had to add a 3rd to get enough par without cranking up the whites.

wow, thats insane that the PAR is that low requiring 3 on a 50 gallon. What king of PAR were you getting with the 2 vs 3?

Right now im testing different lights on the end of my 300 and was thinking of trying a G6, I may not even bother

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

wow, thats insane that the PAR is that low requiring 3 on a 50 gallon. What king of PAR were you getting with the 2 vs 3?

Right now im testing different lights on the end of my 300 and was thinking of trying a G6, I may not even bother

I was getting “enough” with the 2 but I had to crank the whites up and turn up the intensity to 100%. I didn’t like the idea of running them 100% intensity. Plus a couple corals bleached and then rtn’d, even though the par was much lower than my previous hydras. I can only assume bc the lights are mounted 7” closer than my old lights. I’m now getting 250-450 on all the acros with the spectrum I like and 75% intensity. I probably should of went with the blues.

 

[Lavey29]

I run 2 XR15 lights on my 80g system. I was shocked how low the output was via par meter check. I am now at 98% intensity schedule on the AB plus program barely getting 300 par on my top rocks.

 

[oreo54]

Circumstantial evidence and the 120-ish effective beam angle means you may need to place them lower than you would a g5
6" (or lower for deeper penetration) for a 24" wide tank.

After the first few seconds where I started this at you can go right to 8:50-ish



suppliment:

 

[trevorhiller]

Circumstantial evidence and the 120-ish effective beam angle means you may need to place them lower than you would a g5
6" (or lower for deeper penetration) for a 24" wide tank.

After the first few seconds where I started this at you can go right to 8:50-ish



suppliment:

I’m surprised they didn’t release a new mount for them. I did notice it works just as well as far as spread and consistency even down to 4.5” off the water surface, but the previous versions mounts are way too high to get any decent par on a 2 foot tank. Fortunately I’m using a kessil mounting arm for mine, but with how dramatically different the lenses are you would think they would come out with different mounting recommendations.

 

[Charlie’s Frags]

@oreo5457 Is what he said about par meters not being able to accurately register deep blue/violet true? I have an apogee 510 meter and thought it was designed to accurately capture the blue photons. Should we throw the 200-400 par recommendations out the window with these lights?

 

[trevorhiller]

@oreo5457 Is what he said about par meters not being able to accurately register deep blue/violet true? I have an apogee 510 meter and thought it was designed to accurately capture the blue photons. Should we throw the 200-400 par recommendations out the window with these lights?

It does underestimate some of the deep blue & violet. You can see the response chart here where the line dips a little bit below ideal in the shorter wave lengths (blue & violet), however, the Apogee 510 is about as good as it gets.

I wouldn’t discount others recommendations because honestly the unit of measure and range doesn’t matter. It’s just a means of comparing amount of light between reefers for successful growth. If we all measured light using the same meter and spectrum, it would make it much easier to compare and share notes.

The 510 does the best job at appropriately registering the majority of spectrum of the XR15G6 as compared to the 210.

I respect Jake Adams, he obviously knows what he’s doing and is experienced but you also have to consider he’s sponsored by Ecotech as well. There’s always some unintentional or even intentional bias. I sure would love it if Ecotech sent me a couple free a XR30s–I bet id speak highly of it too and dismiss the negatives as well. I’m sure this is just an example of exaggerating a truth (that it inaccurately measures blue spectrum) to make it seem better.

I’ve seen plenty of SPS growers that overshoot the 250-350 range and swear by it, so I think there’s probably something to it.

Just my 2 cents

 

[oreo54]

The 395 and possibly 405nm will probably be under- reported a bit.
Remember wavelengths are peaks and spread out around it.

Using a Seneye or older Apogees is another story.

Example only.

 

[trevorhiller]

I posted this in my build thread, but I figured I’d post it here too for comparison. For those interested, this is the XR30 G6 PAR values. The light settings are: UV 100%, Violet 100%, Blue 100%, Royal 100%, Green 20%, Red 20%, Warm White 35%, Cool White 35%. One picture is at 60% Intensity, the other at 100% Intensity. The XR30 G6 should be able to hit SPS PAR values all over in a 24" cube, sandbed to top.

 

[oreo54]

I posted this in my build thread, but I figured I’d post it here too for comparison. For those interested, this is the XR30 G6 PAR values. The light settings are: UV 100%, Violet 100%, Blue 100%, Royal 100%, Green 20%, Red 20%, Warm White 35%, Cool White 35%. One picture is at 60% Intensity, the other at 100% Intensity. The XR30 G6 should be able to hit SPS PAR values all over in a 24" cube, sandbed to top.

Followup comparison and assumptions:
Left is xr15 g6 100% intensity.. Channels as stated in 1
Right is xr30 g6 100% intensity Channels as stated above.
"Blues" at equal percent, colors only some minor differences i.e cool white 50 vs 35% (overall it does change par but believe not sig. enough compared to blue/intensity)
Point is settings are fairly "equal".
Now as to height off water of the light itself.
???

Doubling wattage should double par..
Did I make any errors here?

 

[trevorhiller]

Followup comparison and assumptions:
Left is xr15 g6 100% intensity.. Channels as stated in 1
Right is xr30 g6 100% intensity Channels as stated above.
"Blues" at equal percent, colors only some minor differences i.e cool white 50 vs 35% (overall it does change par but believe not sig. enough compared to blue/intensity)
Point is settings are fairly "equal".
Now as to height off water of the light itself.
???

Doubling wattage should double par..
Did I make any errors here?

Actually, I forgot about the height of the water. The XR15 was 4” off the water. The XR30 was 7” off the water.

you would think it would be half the par, but that’s not my experience. Even closer to the water and more powerful settings, the 30 is more than double.