80% of Marine Fish die in transport??

TSM Aquatics

dyno

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
228
Reaction score
245
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
In this article: https://earthjournalism.net/stories/investigating-the-murky-trade-in-aquarium-fish-and-coral

They state this: "But according to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, an estimated 80 percent of tropical fish do not survive the trip."

Is that true? Are the fish we see in of LFS the "20%" that actually survived? If that is the case it is horrible. Considering the additional deaths at the LFS and then deaths related to stress and disease at the Hobbyist's home what percent is actually surviving? This upset my stomach and made me feel REALLY BAD!

What do you guys think, is this true?
:rolleyes:
 
Click to watch best scape method in 5 easy steps!

MONTANTK

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
1,004
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Buffalo
I could see it being true. Many fish are caught using poor fishing practices which probably kill a lot of fish as it is. Then they take trips halfway around the world getting tossed around in an airplane. Who knows how well taken care of they are before they even make it to the wholesaler
 

SamBackspins

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
30
Reaction score
68
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Raleigh, NC
80% is a HUGGEE overstatement from my LFS experience. We would order from 5-6 different suppliers.

I think among all the suppliers it’s more accurate that 80% MADE the trip, if not more. We got 10-12 boxes on average and usually 1-2 bags per box wasn’t alive. Usually damsels or fire fish gobies or clowns.
 

Oldreefer44

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
1,043
Reaction score
1,421
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Machias Washington
80% is a HUGGEE overstatement from my LFS experience. We would order from 5-6 different suppliers.

I think among all the suppliers it’s more accurate that 80% MADE the trip, if not more. We got 10-12 boxes on average and usually 1-2 bags per box wasn’t alive. Usually damsels or fire fish gobies or clowns.
Even if you are correct, 20% mortality, IMO, is too high and that doesn't include the amount that die before making it on the plane.
 
Orphek OR3 reef aquarium LED lighting
OP
dyno

dyno

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 2, 2015
Messages
228
Reaction score
245
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Yorba Linda, CA
80% is a HUGGEE overstatement from my LFS experience. We would order from 5-6 different suppliers.

I think among all the suppliers it’s more accurate that 80% MADE the trip, if not more. We got 10-12 boxes on average and usually 1-2 bags per box wasn’t alive. Usually damsels or fire fish gobies or clowns.
@SamBackspins how long was the trip from your whole seller to the LFS? Curious, were you guys close to them or was it a long trip?
 

SamBackspins

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
30
Reaction score
68
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Raleigh, NC
Even if you are correct, 20% mortality, IMO, is too high and that doesn't include the amount that die before making it on the plane.
On the plane to the distributor? Yeah that’s fair, I’m now sure how we would bring it down though.

another 20% ish die at the LFS, although sometimes a good batch comes in and none die which genuinely does happen. The other ones get sold to people who don’t understand anything and die within a week or two.

I have no genuine source besides knowing what type of person comes into LFS on the regular, but I’d say 80% don’t live past a year.
 
Maxout

WVNed

The fish are staring at me with hungry eyes.
View Badges
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
7,879
Reaction score
33,661
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Hurricane, WV
Help us improve the world

Donate Now

LOL
100% of living things on earth right now will die. Guaranteed.
So are you getting upset over where they die or what? How they die? Is dying in a shipping box worse than being eaten by a grouper?

Lion king world where the animals all sing and dance for the lions who never seem to eat anything.
 

MONTANTK

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 9, 2020
Messages
1,129
Reaction score
1,004
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Buffalo
80% is a HUGGEE overstatement from my LFS experience. We would order from 5-6 different suppliers.

I think among all the suppliers it’s more accurate that 80% MADE the trip, if not more. We got 10-12 boxes on average and usually 1-2 bags per box wasn’t alive. Usually damsels or fire fish gobies or clowns.
I’ll chime in with my LFS experience as well. We had a few different wholesalers but the two main ones were based in LA and we were on the east coast. We would also probably have 1-2 per box that were DOA. Also typically damsels. We would also lose 2-3 fish after 48-72 hours. I would expect that the wholesalers see higher mortality rates in their shipments. I’d be willing to bet as you move down the supply chain, the mortality rate of fish declines
 

SamBackspins

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 7, 2021
Messages
30
Reaction score
68
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Raleigh, NC
Help us improve the world

Donate Now

LOL
100% of living things on earth right now will die. Guaranteed.
So are you getting upset over where they die or what? How they die? Is dying in a shipping box worse than being eaten by a grouper?

Lion king world where the animals all sing and dance for the lions who never seem to eat anything.
I feel like the issue is more that a lot of these species aren’t super abundant and their ranges are shrinking as reefs shrink.

if these species were as common as tuna or krill and keeping a steady population wasn’t super hard it probably wouldn’t cause as big of a problem.
 

Suohhen

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
629
Reaction score
441
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Monterey
The article is stating 80% don't survive from Indonesia or wherever they are caught to the western nation they arrive at. It is also only sourcing a couple of people and the issue i see with this is that is simply not science. There is too much money to be made and attention to be gotten by making statements like this that I need more evidence to take it seriously.
Take for instance that the UN is claiming Australia is not doing enough to curb global warming so they want to downgrade the Great Barrier Reef from World Heritage to World Heritage in danger. Yet the term is 'global warming'. How can Australia prevent global warming from harming thr GBR?
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

Grumblez

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
May 16, 2021
Messages
126
Reaction score
128
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Roanoke
If 20% die from the wholesaler to LFS how many die from Indonesia to California? They admit 80% is an estimate but I would guess from the fisherman's boat to the LFS it has to be 60%+.

If you haven't seen it this amateur documentary provides a really good unbiased look at the wild caught fish industry .


Also totally unrelated but had to tell someone who cares. Didn't expect to see this in a Mexican Restaurant I
 

Attachments

  • 20210622_192107.jpg
    20210622_192107.jpg
    223.5 KB · Views: 49
1

176327

Guest
View Badges
In this article: https://earthjournalism.net/stories/investigating-the-murky-trade-in-aquarium-fish-and-coral

They state this: "But according to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, an estimated 80 percent of tropical fish do not survive the trip."

Is that true? Are the fish we see in of LFS the "20%" that actually survived? If that is the case it is horrible. Considering the additional deaths at the LFS and then deaths related to stress and disease at the Hobbyist's home what percent is actually surviving? This upset my stomach and made me feel REALLY BAD!

What do you guys think, is this true?
:rolleyes:

it’s probably worth keeping in mind it’s the UN. So the numbers are probably aggregated from multiple countries.

also, it’s the UN. So the statistics are likely “dry lab” numbers. Meaning, someone just filled out a form with what seemed reasonable to them.

either way, if you have a moral pro alien with the reality of taking things from the wild, then buy captive bread and aquacultured livestock.

though, like everything else these days, you’re largely taking someone’s word for it.

Edit: moral pro alien? Wow auto correct. Moral objection.
 

LIreefguy

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
976
Reaction score
725
Review score
+1 /0 /-0
Location
Kings Park, Long island
Has anyone seen the documentary seaconspiracies
anyone who eats tuna should be ashamed at themselves. There is no dolphin free tuna
They simple ask the captain of the body if they killed any dolphins and if they say yes stamp it tuna free
who do you think pays the dolphin safe tuna agency
follow the money it never lies

Drag nets destroy miles of ocean floor and kill anything in its path

the tropical fish hobby isn’t killing our oceans 80 percent is way to high , they couldn’t make a profit if 80 percent of the fish they caught died

my friend used to get shipments of fifth from Indo and maybe they lose a bag Mostly from them overpacking the bag
 

Mibu

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2020
Messages
4,466
Reaction score
7,575
Review score
+0 /0 /-0
Location
Illinios
If 20% die from the wholesaler to LFS how many die from Indonesia to California? They admit 80% is an estimate but I would guess from the fisherman's boat to the LFS it has to be 60%+.

If you haven't seen it this amateur documentary provides a really good unbiased look at the wild caught fish industry .


Also totally unrelated but had to tell someone who cares. Didn't expect to see this in a Mexican Restaurant I
I'm glad that restaurant isn't near me. I would have a hard time leaving.
 
1

176327

Guest
View Badges
If 20% die from the wholesaler to LFS how many die from Indonesia to California? They admit 80% is an estimate but I would guess from the fisherman's boat to the LFS it has to be 60%+.

If you haven't seen it this amateur documentary provides a really good unbiased look at the wild caught fish industry .


Also totally unrelated but had to tell someone who cares. Didn't expect to see this in a Mexican Restaurant I
Where is that?
 
Maxout
TSM Aquatics

Do you house a "Reef Safe" Angelfish in your reef tank?

  • YES and it's going good

    Votes: 156 41.1%
  • YES but it's not working out

    Votes: 10 2.6%
  • NO I have tried it in the past and it didn't work out

    Votes: 34 8.9%
  • NO I haven't tried yet

    Votes: 168 44.2%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 12 3.2%
MrReefs
Top