80% of Marine Fish die in transport??

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MaxTremors

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80% is a HUGGEE overstatement from my LFS experience. We would order from 5-6 different suppliers.

I think among all the suppliers it’s more accurate that 80% MADE the trip, if not more. We got 10-12 boxes on average and usually 1-2 bags per box wasn’t alive. Usually damsels or fire fish gobies or clowns.
Yeah, maybe 80% made it from the wholesaler to you, but from the ocean to the hobbyist (or after one year with the hobbyist)? Its probably closer to 80% that don’t survive. I think it’s probably gotten better over the years, catching fish with cyanide is less common, and captive bred fish probably lower that percentage (though I think there is also an inverse with captive bred fish, I don’t have any data on it, but I’ve found that captive bred fish seem to have weaker immune systems and aren’t as hardy as some wild caught fish). Anyway, I think focusing on just one link in the chain isn’t going to give an accurate picture. If 20% was lost on each link of the supply chain, 20% during collection and at the collection site, 20% to and at the wholesaler, 20% to and at the lfs, and 20% to and at the hobbyist, that’s 80%.
 
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WVNed

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I feel like they are going to make a lot of money making you feel stuff. You seem to need it.
It's 67 here today. Where the heck did the global warming go.

I read these threads. Then I look at Google Earth to see how much of the environment is left where the most concerned posters live. Usually it is less than 0.001%. 99.999% concrete and asphalt and human debris.
New York dumped million upon millions of tons of garbage into the ocean until not so long ago. I wonder where those floating islands of trash come from. Probably carless people on the beach. Remember to recycle.

I shake my head and go on with my day.
 

sp1187

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I feel like they are going to make a lot of money making you feel stuff. You seem to need it.
It's 67 here today. Where the heck did the global warming go.

I read these threads. Then I look at Google Earth to see how much of the environment is left where the most concerned posters live. Usually it is less than 0.001%. 99.999% concrete and asphalt and human debris.
New York dumped million upon millions of tons of garbage into the ocean until not so long ago. I wonder where those floating islands of trash come from. Probably carless people on the beach. Remember to recycle.

I shake my head and go on with my day.
global warming got changed to climate change so that every weather event is now our fault.
 

MaxTremors

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I feel like they are going to make a lot of money making you feel stuff. You seem to need it.
It's 67 here today. Where the heck did the global warming go.

I read these threads. Then I look at Google Earth to see how much of the environment is left where the most concerned posters live. Usually it is less than 0.001%. 99.999% concrete and asphalt and human debris.
New York dumped million upon millions of tons of garbage into the ocean until not so long ago. I wonder where those floating islands of trash come from. Probably carless people on the beach. Remember to recycle.

I shake my head and go on with my day.
What is this even supposed to mean? For such a science adjacent hobby, it really just perplexes me that there are so many climate change deniers in it. What’s next? ‘Who cares about how many fish die because of our hobby when so many fall off the edge of the world?’
 

Grumblez

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Where is that?
Huntington, WV

I feel like they are going to make a lot of money making you feel stuff. You seem to need it.
It's 67 here today. Where the heck did the global warming go.

Just once maybe we'll have a thread remotely related to the environment that doesn't degrade to a Climate Change debate. But alas here we are.

Yes the Earth Warming up means it can never be slightly unreasonably cool in one part of the Earth.
 
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blasterman

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LOL
100% of living things on earth right now will die. Guaranteed.
So are you getting upset over where they die or what? How they die? Is dying in a shipping box worse than being eaten by a grouper?

Lion king world where the animals all sing and dance for the lions who never seem to eat anything.
Were getting upset because you need to turn down your Rush Limbaugh recordings and Fox News while aiming for animals crossing the road.
 
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176327

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What is this even supposed to mean? For such a science adjacent hobby, it really just perplexes me that there are so many climate change deniers in it. What’s next? ‘Who cares about how many fish die because of our hobby when so many fall off the edge of the world?’

meh, what perplexes me is how many people talk about science without understanding what science is. A method of refinement.

dry labing statistics and cherry-picking “studies” bought and paid for by people who stand to make more profit isn’t science.

building a program to “model” and “predict” the future is t science either. There are soooooooooooooo many climate predictions but the only one that gets used doesn’t reconcile at all with the data we can now collect with satellites.

the “hockey stick” and al gore are not science. That’s the kind of “science” that lead all of us into the lockdown BS.
 
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176327

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Huntington, WV



Just once maybe we'll have a thread remotely related to the environment that doesn't degrade to a Climate Change debate. But alas here we are.

Yes the Earth Warming up means it can never be slightly unreasonably cool in one part of the Earth.

As long as science is an identity politics and intersectional religion. We won’t.

And also, I want to go to WV now.
 

MaxTremors

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meh, what perplexes me is how many people talk about science without understanding what science is. A method of refinement.

dry labing statistics and cherry-picking “studies” bought and paid for by people who stand to make more profit isn’t science.

building a program to “model” and “predict” the future is t science either. There are soooooooooooooo many climate predictions but the only one that gets used doesn’t reconcile at all with the data we can now collect with satellites.

the “hockey stick” and al gore are not science. That’s the kind of “science” that lead all of us into the lockdown BS.
Oh, you mean…..nope. Not taking the bait.
 

Grumblez

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meh, what perplexes me is how many people talk about science without understanding what science is. A method of refinement.

dry labing statistics and cherry-picking “studies” bought and paid for by people who stand to make more profit isn’t science.

building a program to “model” and “predict” the future is t science either. There are soooooooooooooo many climate predictions but the only one that gets used doesn’t reconcile at all with the data we can now collect with satellites.

the “hockey stick” and al gore are not science. That’s the kind of “science” that lead all of us into the lockdown BS.

It's so crazy to me people think there's like a big money conspiracy behind like green energy or acknowledging global warming.

As opposed to you know the trillion dollar fossil fuel industry that we now know literally knew in the 70s about global warming. And spent millions to make otherwise intelligent people still question it today.




There's 1000s of studies and new proof sorry evidence everyday that the earth is heating up, and greenhouse gas emissions are a big factor in it
 

Grumblez

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As long as science is an identity politics and intersectional religion. We won’t.

And also, I want to go to WV now.

Yes this is by design. My team says climate change isn't real. Nevermind my teams sponsors who stand to benefit significantly from lack of any real action about climate change.
 

WVNed

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LOL
Perhaps there is a force field over West Virginia today. OOps it's 65 now.

Climate change? When in the entire 4.54 billion years the Earth has existed did the climate not change.
But now it is an emergency
900,000 years ago where I live was a lake
10,000 years ago Great Britain was attached to Europe. Then the sea level changed.
The Sahara, Mojave, Gobi, and other famous deserts haven't always been grassless wastelands. Even the South Pole is thought to have been the site of a lush rain forest—and not too long ago, considering the planet is an estimated 4.5 billion years old.

What I find interesting is the people that understand this are called names by the people that think something can be done to stop it.

Show your concern. Send more money.

Someone made up a number and made a film and a new problem and center for profit appears. If someone produces something and makes a profit you get cranked, but if someone points out a possible new emergency with little to no proof or data you chip in like there will be no tomorrow. Which is almost 100% profit.

I have said enough on here today. I think I will go pet my cat. Post your hate and I will read it later.

The loss of the Great Barrier Reef would be catastrophic for the Earth, and it’s important that we do all we can to protect it. If you wish to conserve this natural wonder, consider donating to the Great Barrier Reef Foundation. Climate change is real, and it is causing more and more damage. We need to find a solution before it’s too late.

Send money. Before it's too late.

Real problems cant be fixed by sending someone money.
 
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RAP

reefinatl

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Never understood the fear about global warming to be honest. Warmer weather means more habital land and longer growing seasons at least on a global perspective. Ice age would really screw us, imagine the Midwest breadbasket being iced over.

We should always do what we can do to be clean and reduce trash but some of this stuff is just overblown. When I was young we were told to use plastic bags because paper bags would clear out trees.

The paper straw stuff is the best. The main source of trash in the oceans at this point are third world countries with bigger issues than landfill maintenance not your typical American stuffing their face with junk food and putting plastics in the trashcan. Have you been to a modern landfill, cleaner than many neighborhoods in Atlanta.

As for this hobby anyone not buying CB when the species is available is irresponsible in my opinion. If a $10-$30 expense on a CB vs WC can't be justified you really don't have money for this hobby frankly. Same goes for corals. I'd truly be in favor of ending importation of all wild coral colonies. We have so many choices already we'll all survive.

This is not a green hobby, even though most of the hobbies are environmentally conscientious. The issue that causes debates like this is similar to the hunters and tree huggers. Both really do appreciate and want to preserve the outdoors but for different uses and with different approaches.

Carry on.
 

Bouncingsoul39

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I’ll chime in with my LFS experience as well. We had a few different wholesalers but the two main ones were based in LA and we were on the east coast. We would also probably have 1-2 per box that were DOA. Also typically damsels. We would also lose 2-3 fish after 48-72 hours. I would expect that the wholesalers see higher mortality rates in their shipments. I’d be willing to bet as you move down the supply chain, the mortality rate of fish declines
I worked at one of the largest wholesalers. Our mortality rate for shipments coming direct from the collects was 2-5%. I don’t believe that 80% figure for a second. Everyone on the chain wants the fish to live. We got credited from the collectors for DOAs.
 
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176327

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Yes this is by design. My team says climate change isn't real. Nevermind my teams sponsors who stand to benefit significantly from lack of any real action about climate change.
Cool story bro.
 

Grumblez

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LOL
Perhaps there is a force field over West Virginia today. OOps it's 65 now.

Climate change? When in the entire 4.54 billion years the Earth has existed did the climate not change.
But now it is an emergency
900,000 years ago where I live was a lake
10,000 years ago Great Britain was attached to Europe. Then the sea level changed.
The Sahara, Mojave, Gobi, and other famous deserts haven't always been grassless wastelands. Even the South Pole is thought to have been the site of a lush rain forest—and not too long ago, considering the planet is an estimated 4.5 billion years old.

What I find interesting is the people that understand this are called names by the people that think something can be done to stop it.

Show your concern. Send more money.

Someone made up a number and made a film and a new problem and center for profit appears. If someone produces something and makes a profit you get cranked, but if someone points out a possible new emergency with little to no proof or data you chip in like there will be no tomorrow. Which is almost 100% profit.

I have said enough on here today. I think I will go pet my cat. Post your hate and I will read it later.

The loss of the Great Barrier Reef would be catastrophic for the Earth, and it’s important that we do all we can to protect it. If you wish to conserve this natural wonder, consider donating to the Great Barrier Reef Foundation. Climate change is real, and it is causing more and more damage. We need to find a solution before it’s too late.

Send money. Before it's too late.

Real problems cant be fixed by sending someone money.

I don't encourage calling anyone names and don't think anyone here did yet unless I missed it. Yes the climate has always been changing, but thee problem is an old human one of still thinking our actions can't have affects on ecosystems much larger than themselves.

Mideval Europeans didn't think they could overfish their rivers and they did. Early Americans didn't think we could hunt (almost) all the wild Buffalo in America and we did. Later than that we didn't think we could kill most of the worlds whales to fuel our lamps and we did.

If your creating a group to solve a problem how are you going to do it without money? I'm not saying every environmental "nonprofit" is benevolent, but that goes for every category of nonprofit.
Never understood the fear about global warming to be honest. Warmer weather means more habital land and longer growing seasons at least on a global perspective. Ice age would really screw us, imagine the Midwest breadbasket being iced over.

We should always do what we can do to be clean and reduce trash but some of this stuff is just overblown. When I was young we were told to use plastic bags because paper bags would clear out trees.

The paper straw stuff is the best. The main source of trash in the oceans at this point are third world countries with bigger issues than landfill maintenance not your typical American stuffing their face with junk food and putting plastics in the trashcan. Have you been to a modern landfill, cleaner than many neighborhoods in Atlanta.

As for this hobby anyone not buying CB when the species is available is irresponsible in my opinion. If a $10-$30 expense on a CB vs WC can't be justified you really don't have money for this hobby frankly. Same goes for corals. I'd truly be in favor of ending importation of all wild coral colonies. We have so many choices already we'll all survive.

This is not a green hobby, even though most of the hobbies are environmentally conscientious. The issue that causes debates like this is similar to the hunters and tree huggers. Both really do appreciate and want to preserve the outdoors but for different uses and with different approaches.

Carry on.

More habitable land in places humans don't reallly live, and less habitable land in places billions already do. Less rain in places like the breadbasket, but more severe and unpredictable weather like the year after year record setting hurricanes.
 
RAP
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