A couple questions on live rock and filtration

[Elrond]

I have recently set up a 125 gallon tank my first attempt at saltwater, I used rodi water, 120 pounds of Carib sea special grade sand, I have 90 pounds of Carib sea dry live rock and seeded that with 30 pounds of live rock from a Petco that had been in a tank for a little over a year, I used instant ocean salt. Dr Tim's nitrifying bacteria to start the cycle and at that time I added 2 small clowns and a blue damsal, I have a hob fluval 110 that has seachem pond matix in it for the bio part, and a fluval f6 also with seachem in the bottom to trays for bio filtration, first question is what am I doing that I maybe shouldnt be or what could I change

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

biofiltration is done with the rocks and flow. Google ' the berlin method". No need for biofiltration trays. Even the hob is not needed, I use my hob to run carbon, some run phosguard, some use as a mini-refugium, but we don't use for biofiltration. Rocks are the biofilter.

I would also think twice about the blue damsel, knicknamed the blue devil, it earned this name for a reason.

 

[Elrond]

biofiltration is done with the rocks and flow. Google ' the berlin method". No need for biofiltration trays. Even the hob is not needed, I use my hob to run carbon, some run phosguard, some use as a mini-refugium, but we don't use for biofiltration. Rocks are the biofilter.

I would also think twice about the blue damsel, knicknamed the blue devil, it earned this name for a reason.

Thank you for the response, I did suspect I might be going overboard, with the filtration I have would I need a skimmer? I don't plan on doing any coral yet. I heard that damsels get aggressive I mostly was using him for the cycle I put him in first then added the clowns, I plan to take him out after the tank is better established. Also the rock I got doesn't have the blue green algae I heard is desirable it's brownish green but looks like it would have alot of beneficial bacteria on it which

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

As FYI, there is no need to cycle with fish, its a cruel method, there are many fishless methods available.

If you don't plan to have corals, then no real need for a skimmer yet. Many tanks are run without a skimmer. I have 4 tanks, only one has a skimmer)

 

[Elrond]

biofiltration is done with the rocks and flow. Google ' the berlin method". No need for biofiltration trays. Even the hob is not needed, I use my hob to run carbon, some run phosguard, some use as a mini-refugium, but we don't use for biofiltration. Rocks are the biofilter.

I would also think twice about the blue damsel, knicknamed the blue devil, it earned this name for a reason.

Thank you for the response, I did suspect I might be going overboard, with the filtration I have would I need a skimmer? I don't plan on doing any coral yet. I heard that damsels get aggressive I mostly was using him for the cycle I put him in first then added the clowns, I plan to take him out after the tank is better established. Also the rock I got doesn't have the blue green algae I heard is desirable it's brownish green but looks like it would have alot of beneficial bacteria on it which is

 

[Elrond]

As FYI, there is no need to cycle with fish, its a cruel method, there are many fishless methods available.

If you don't plan to have corals, then no real need for a skimmer yet. Many tanks are run without a skimmer. I have 4 tanks, only one has a skimmer)

I see, I didn't know that the Dr Tim's instructions were to use fish for the amonia source. They have been eating well and playing in the power head flow, I have had very minimal amonia readings I was hoping that the dosing of bacteria and the rock/sand would quickly move me through the cycle, the tank has been up for 9 days all readings have been good so far. I hope it's not been hard on them I definitely wouldn't want to see them in any distress

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Don't feel too bad, you have a very large tank which allows you to get away with it. In a smaller tank you would have seen ammonia readings and the fish would have suffered and possibly died. But your sized tank will be fine.

 

[Elrond]

I see, I didn't know that the Dr Tim's instructions were to use fish for the amonia source. They have been eating well and playing in the power head flow, I have had very minimal amonia readings I was hoping that the dosing of bacteria and the rock/sand would quickly move me through the cycle, the tank has been up for 9 days all readings have been good so far. I hope it's not been hard on them I definitely wouldn't want to see them in any distress

Don't feel too bad, you have a very large tank which allows you to get away with it. In a smaller tank you would have seen ammonia readings and the fish would have suffered and possibly died. But your sized tank will be fine.

Okay, I will keep a close eye on them. Is there any kind of anemone that I could keep without special lighting that the clowns would enjoy?

 

[brandon429]

Dr Tims allows fish in the tank day one in large and small tanks. the only way it would be harmful in either tank is if the bottle bac was dead due to freezing. 99% of them are fine/active bottles.

30 lbs of live rock carries any bioload in reefing, the bottle bac was not needed, this was a skip cycle tank due to the live rock and the bottle bac. the fish in by day one brought disease in/behavioral issues/but isn't an ammonia problem for anyone.

the reason Dr Tim says to use a fish is because it's not burning them. bacteria in suspension handle all the waste from initial fish just fine. having a larger tank/more dilution backs you up in case some or all of the bottle was dead, but this is 1% rare, I've never seen a dead bottle = dead fish in any cycling thread I've ever been in online and they're all logged for searching outcomes.

the scientists like Dr. Reef and Dan P have seen the dead bottles in their testing / precision work across several bottles.

 

[threebuoys]

If the live rock came from a tank that was used for fish inventory at the LFS, they may be carrying parasite eggs/cysts that could hatch and infect your fish. Many LFS keep their live rock for sale isolated from the tanks with fish. I don't know the method used by Petco, but you may want to check.

 

[Elrond]

Dr Tims allows fish in the tank day one in large and small tanks. the only way it would be harmful in either tank is if the bottle bac was dead due to freezing. 99% of them are fine/active bottles.

30 lbs of live rock carries any bioload in reefing, the bottle bac was not needed, this was a skip cycle tank due to the live rock and the bottle bac. the fish in by day one brought disease in/behavioral issues/but isn't an ammonia problem for anyone.

the reason Dr Tim says to use a fish is because it's not burning them. bacteria in suspension handle all the waste from initial fish just fine. having a larger tank/more dilution backs you up in case some or all of the bottle was dead, but this is 1% rare, I've never seen a dead bottle = dead fish in any cycling thread I've ever been in online and they're all logged for searching outcomes.

the scientists like Dr. Reef and Dan P have seen the dead bottles in their testing / precision work across several bottles.

I actually used 2 bottles of Dr Tim's 240 gallon size into the tank, then added a 70 gallon size one directly into my canister filter after I put the seachem pond matix in the bottom two trays, I added two chunks of live rock with each of the three fish I added, I didn't know if it was the right way I kinda used all the suggestions I read about how to cut down cycle time. It sounds like one or the other would have been sufficient

 

[Elrond]

If the live rock came from a tank that was used for fish inventory at the LFS, they may be carrying parasite eggs/cysts that could hatch and infect your fish. Many LFS keep their live rock for sale isolated from the tanks with fish. I don't know the method used by Petco, but you may want to check.

They were from a tower that the clowns I bought were in, the guy in charge of salt water there said he'd been watching things closely and hadn't had any issues with that tower having any disease, I hope I don't get anything like that in my tank I was planning to wait quite awhile now before adding anymore fish just to see how things go and let the tank get established

 

[Elrond]

They were from a tower that the clowns I bought were in, the guy in charge of salt water there said he'd been watching things closely and hadn't had any issues with that tower having any disease, I hope I don't get anything like that in my tank I was planning to wait quite awhile now before adding anymore fish just to see how things go and let the tank get established

Is there anything in particular to watch for concerning parasites from the LR?

 

[threebuoys]

Is there anything in particular to watch for concerning parasites from the LR?

The number of fish and speed with which they move in and out of a fish store that does not administer a prophylactic quarantine greatly increases the odds that an infected fish will pass through the system. Once an infected fish enters the tank, either at the fish store or at your home, odds are high that the tank will continue to harbor the parasite. Sometimes, as in the case of ich , visible signs may become obvious within hours or days. To the untrained eye, other parasites may go unnoticed until the conditions become serious. e.g. velvet or brooklynella or flukes.
That's the reason we recommend Qt before adding fish to your display tank.

The life cycle of parasites opens the possibility that objects such as sand, life rock, ornaments within the tank with the infected fish may have the eggs/cycsts attached. Once parasites are confirmed in a tank, only a couple of ways exist to remove the problem. One is a complete break down, sterilization and restart. The other is to allow the tank to remain fallow, i.e. no fish in the tank, for 6 to 8 weeks.

 

[Elrond]

The number of fish and speed with which they move in and out of a fish store that does not administer a prophylactic quarantine greatly increases the odds that an infected fish will pass through the system. Once an infected fish enters the tank, either at the fish store or at your home, odds are high that the tank will continue to harbor the parasite. Sometimes, as in the case of ich , visible signs may become obvious within hours or days. To the untrained eye, other parasites may go unnoticed until the conditions become serious. e.g. velvet or brooklynella or flukes.
That's the reason we recommend Qt before adding fish to your display tank.

The life cycle of parasites opens the possibility that objects such as sand, life rock, ornaments within the tank with the infected fish may have the eggs/cycsts attached. Once parasites are confirmed in a tank, only a couple of ways exist to remove the problem. One is a complete break down, sterilization and restart. The other is to allow the tank to remain fallow, i.e. no fish in the tank, for 6 to 8 weeks.

Would it be wise at this point to wait three months before adding anymore fish? I have two small clowns and a small damsal in there now

 

[Elrond]

The number of fish and speed with which they move in and out of a fish store that does not administer a prophylactic quarantine greatly increases the odds that an infected fish will pass through the system. Once an infected fish enters the tank, either at the fish store or at your home, odds are high that the tank will continue to harbor the parasite. Sometimes, as in the case of ich , visible signs may become obvious within hours or days. To the untrained eye, other parasites may go unnoticed until the conditions become serious. e.g. velvet or brooklynella or flukes.
That's the reason we recommend Qt before adding fish to your display tank.

The life cycle of parasites opens the possibility that objects such as sand, life rock, ornaments within the tank with the infected fish may have the eggs/cycsts attached. Once parasites are confirmed in a tank, only a couple of ways exist to remove the problem. One is a complete break down, sterilization and restart. The other is to allow the tank to remain fallow, i.e. no fish in the tank, for 6 to 8 weeks.

Would it be wise at this point to wait three months before adding anymore fish? I have two small clowns and a small damsal in there

 

[Elrond]

They love all that space

 

[threebuoys]

Would it be wise at this point to wait three months before adding anymore fish? I have two small clowns and a small damsal in there now

I would wait awhile and observe. Also, I would try to set up a QT (see link referenced below) and if everything appears to be progressing ok, buy additional fish perhaps 5 or 6 weeks prior to the end of the three months and begin the standard QT for them to be ready to move at the end of the "observational quarantine" in your display tank.

 

[brandon429]

excellent new tank input, covered updated cycling bases, disease bases, qt, this is reefing 2023 nice one.

 

[Elrond]

I would wait awhile and observe. Also, I would try to set up a QT (see link referenced below) and if everything appears to be progressing ok, buy additional fish perhaps 5 or 6 weeks prior to the end of the three months and begin the standard QT for them to be ready to move at the end of the "observational quarantine" in your display tank.

Thanks for the responses and information, I will try that