A Dedicated "Sand Pump" or Powerhead to keep sand and substrate clean! Possible?

[Lota Reefer]

I find it curious the reefing community believes in trapping ions using their positive or negative charge, like cations and anions by using skimmers and DI resins, yet a plennum is considered magical and up for debate...

Using sand should be as simple as using rock. Some rocks are a flat no, yet people dont apply the same conviction to sand.

The more mass sand has the more positive charge and so attracts negative ions like P04 and n03. If you consider skimmers to be magical then stop reading. If you think skimmers operate this way by attracting ions through bubble refraction then sand beds are doing the same thing.

Therefore sand beds should only be an inch deep, more then this, makes more positive charge. Go beyond an inch which are the first layers of where beneficial bacteria live then there nothing is there to process the negative ions...ticking time bomb without manual intervention like gravel vac / appropriate critters or plennum etc.
A plennum under the mass to maintain a negative charge allows the process all the way through the bed. So a DSB is 4 inch for mass + charge and mainted water space under it - plennum is to get the negative charge for flow of ions) Go look it up. I use one in the fuge and DT is high energy barebottom.

to the question of the day, sand pumps wont help with ion attaction, but it could make a little more detritus get trapped in filters and removed before adding to the negative charged ions in the system... prolonging the inevitable which depending on size could see them through the whole life of that tank and never experience the downside as they upsize or close the system before collapse

 

[MarsRover]

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[Shooter6]

That's the way we did it 40 years ago but I guess I'm going to have to learn new methods if I get back into the hobby. I never did a reverse flow as it would take lots of infrastructure under the bed to get the flow constant and not blow the sand all over the place! However, that's exactly the way a water treatment plant backwash their filter bed. The trick is to JUST barely float the media to remove contaminates.
That's all what I know!

The reverse flow doesnt require a lot of special structure. The guy who runs it literally has the stand pipes of an old regular undergravel filter connected to either a return pump or old power heads, pushing water up through his sand. I believe hes using course sand or the old crushed coral ww all had in the 80s. His tank has been going for 40 yrs strong.

 

[Shooter6]

Deep sandbeds eventually lead to old tank syndrome in my opinion and experience. Theres a reason the 4-8inch sand beds have gone away.

My opinion is if your fighting to keep nutrients up dont vacuum the sandbed. If your running gfo, my first choice befor using gfo is weekly vacuum of the sandbed.

 

[GoVols]

Running bare bottom, so cranked up flow is not an issue from getting sand storms...

You can use a "Python - No Spill" to clean your sandbed while making water changes.

 

[aalhait]

Running reef bare-bottom with 4 power heads

 

[Chessmanmark]

Go natural, nassarius snails, Pistol Shrimp, starfish, a sea cucumber, etc. The living pump is a stone’s throw away.

I set up my first reef tank in 2003. This was a year before I discovered Reef Central and other online forums. My ticket into the hobby was Saltwater Tanks for Dummies. I followed the instructions to a T which meant a UG filter. It was outdated tech back then. I had to rip the tank apart once I connected with other hobbyists and started learning a better way to reef.

 

[Susan Edwards]

In the past, I've used turkey baster. After I replace my current sand (size 0 to med), I'll be looking for ways to clean. I like the airline tubing if feasible. I could use my husband's, air compressor lol's. But am looking now for ways to keep it clean

 

[PhreeByrd]

I prefer to support all the life in my sand bed, so I bother it as little as possible. It's teeming with life. All the critters and bacteria that live there keep it pretty clean.

 

[Conovan]

I don't have a pump dedicated just to sand, but during my cycle part of that time was spent adjusting the flow of my powerheads to be just on the verge of picking up the sand without actually doing so. I like watching that work for the intended purpose. When my pumps turn back on after feeding and I can see the food particles rise up off the sandbed and suspend in the watter till they go down the overflow I know I have it right. My critters have compensated by learning to be quick to get scraps.

 

[Shooter6]

In the past, I've used turkey baster. After I replace my current sand (size 0 to med), I'll be looking for ways to clean. I like the airline tubing if feasible. I could use my husband's, air compressor lol's. But am looking now for ways to keep it clean

Pumping air into it is not a good idea. Vacuum the sand when doing water changes, thats simple and effective

 

[sghera64]

I like the use of CUC (sleeper goby). I also just use a dumpling strainer [LINK] a few times per month. I find it effective to put on a pair of gloves (bristle worms) and simply run my fingers through the sand. Yesterday, I did take a pump and simply blasted my 4" deep sandbed to really stir things up. It makes quite a cloud that gets trapped in the chaeto packed refugium and clears up after a few hours. The sand stays white and clean. It is about 20 years old so it has become ultra fine, yet a do keep 4 circulating pumps in the tank to move water around. Yes the sand tends to "drift" and pile up places, but strategic placement of rock rubble helps control that.

Another idea, I use a turkey baster/blaster to stir up the sand too by dragging it through the sand or squirting it.

Finally, I do water changes with a "sawed off" 2L pop bottle. The wide open bottom gets plunged into the sand and the siphon tube (drilled into the screw-on top) pull mostly detritus out leaving almost all the sand behind. I can plunge this contraption all the way to the bottom of the 4-5" sand bed. When pulled up, the sand drops out and detritus /dust moves up slowly.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Sometimes I blow off sections of the mixed media of sand, gravel, and rubble in the deep bed. I figure keeping the sand bed clean is the job of the snails, blue leg hermits, and the thousands of Copepods, Amphipods, and different kinds of worms. I have a Deer Cowrie that keeps the underside of the rocks clean. I think my tank is too small for even the smallest Conch, plus they have a tendency to knock over and break your Corals. I have a Neon Dottyback, who thinks he’s an engineering goby. I have glued shells to the underside of my live rock, to counter act his burrowing.

 

[SteveMM62Reef]

Do not use the air off of any Shop Air Compressor. Even with the Oil Less Compressors the Air is not safe as a source for breathing air. I did the reverse flow sand bed years ago on my 90 gallon. Soon I had a very clean sand bed, devoid of any Copepods, Amphipods and Macro Algae.

 

[Ferrell]

Wouldn't Paul's RUGF work the same way? Blowing water into the sandbed to keep it clean.

My thoughts exactly when I read the question

 

[Justin Thibodeaux]

I have a Cube 20 with a ReefWave 25 placed Vertically in my tank. I have it low enough so the bottom part of the gyre will blow across the sand bed to keep most of the gunk from settling but not enough to blow the sand around. I would think something like the reverse under gravel filter would be a good idea or if someone could create an "air mat" that would produce enough turbulence to keep the sand clean but not make it look like there is an earthquake going on in your sand bed or having a sheet of air bubbles going up the tank like an air stone. I hope that makes sense LOL

Holy crap I have been thinking about the air matt thing for years! Basically bubble scrub the sandbed. Would need something that won't get clogged though. Been wanting to try it, but never put time aside for it.

 

[Justin Thibodeaux]

check out New York Steelo he had a 6"to 8" sand bed in his tank and sand in the sump.
[/QUOTE]
New York Steelo!!! Was the first reefer that I got hooked on watching years ago while in high school! Watched every video then one day the last video was showing his burned down apartment.

 

[fish farmer]

There are definitely 2 schools of thought on this. In my opinion, if you have a shallower sand bed, like I do, then it is less necessary to keep it vacuumed. The deeper the sand bed gets, the more likely it is to build up with detritus and go anoxic, and cause problems with things like hydrogen sulfide and other nasty gasses. @brandon429 is definitely of the school of keeping a clean sand bed, and has the data to support his theory. If you intend to vacuum your sand bed, be sure to use the medium grain substrate. In my case, in my display tank, I have the oolitic sugar sand, which is virtually impossible to vacuum without grabbing the sand itself in the siphon. But I would argue that also makes it difficult for detritus to get into the lower layers of it as well. My data is only my own experience and theory, for what that's worth (which may not be much). But I will agree with @brandon429 that deeper sand beds do require routine maintenance. In my refugium (which has about a 2 to 3 inch deep sand bed), the sand was starting to get almost black in color, and smelled like rotten eggs. Years and years of detritus buildup clogged the sand to the point where oxygen could no longer penetrate the lower layers, and I had to essentially rip clean it. You can see in that picture how clean the sand looks, because it was recently rip-cleaned.

So that's my thought. Shallow sand beds (like 1/2" or so) don't need maintenance, but if you go much deeper than that, plan on cleaning it at least at some point. I don't personally clean my sand unless I have some indication (like that blackening color) to let me know that it needs to be cleaned.

Have you ever tried using a gravel vac on your shallow oolitic bed? I ask because I've been using one of the wide mouthed gravel vacs fairly successfully on a very old oolitic bed. I may suck up a few tablespoons of sand with a 5 gallon WC, usually sucking down a 1/2" from the surface.

 

[terraincognita]

Interesting concept! I am a slave to the conch tho! One of my longest tenured critters in one of my reefs.

He/she gets what they want when it comes to sand. Also, do an amazing job keeping it clean! Another cool thing is that I purchased the conch at 1" and is now easily over 3"..

I love the idea though! Lazy reefers unite LOL

I had a baby conch in my last sand bed I didn't know Didn't find him until after i drained the tank 4 days later pushed to the sand to try to live... I felt so bad....

Scooped out all the Nas's. Wasn't looking for a hitchhiker baby

 

[Kris 2020]

I let critters take care of my sand bed. I’ve never vacuumed it. I do give a gentle stir once a month or so, but that pretty minimal because I’ve got coral and rock all over the place and I don’t move them. Nassarius, sand sifting stars, bristle worms, etc taking care of things.