A few weeks in, I'm already starting to regret getting a mantis shrimp

[AydenLincoln]

Salt and Pepper Mantis Shrimp Recipe - Simple Chinese Food

in fact…… I struggled with this salt and pepper mantis shrimp, should I send it? why? Because of the salt and pepper method, someone will inevitably reply: The host must not be a coastal person, I really don't know how to taste it! Violent to the heavens! Hee hee, it's true that many people will...

simplechinesefood.com

I mean they are food too!! Well not pets but people do eat them and no I’m not suggesting you eat it.

 

[Hadla]

That giant crab claw and the pic below It’s looking out like, can I help you?

 

[MaxTremors]

Yeah, my gut tells me I'm not going to be satisfied with just corals. They'll make the tank look pretty and I definitely feel like I'll go down the coral route if I stock the tank with fish, but I'm not convinced that tank containing only corals will be that much more interesting to me than a tank containing only rock.

If the mantis was out and about more frequently of the time I think I'd be happy, but I've literally seen her for about two minutes in the last three days. I could try some fast fish but the sensible options for tank mates seem pretty limited and I don't particularly like idea of just chucking more fish in there and hoping the mantis shrimp doesn't terrorise them.

Replacing the mantis shrimp with fish is probably the sensible thing to do. I'll spend a few days or weeks thinking about what I want to do though - I've rushed every decision I've made in this hobby, and it hasn't worked well for me so far.

I think you’re vastly underestimating how interesting and rewarding growing corals can be. Personally, I’d take a tank full of corals over a tank full of fish every day of the week. The diversity, challenge (or there are easy corals if you don’t want a challenge, the beauty, the otherworldly quality they have, they are just endlessly fascinating. I also get that they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I would try keeping some before writing the off.

 

[Tnops]

If you aren't enjoying the mantis, rehome it. Plenty of people love 'em. Though I think those people often have other tanks as well, so they have other things to look at.

Sometimes we try things that we've always wanted to try, and then learn that, in practice, it's not as cool as we expected. That's okay! Don't sunk-cost-fallacy yourself into keeping a tank you don't like.

Try a pistol shrimp/goby combo instead, maybe. Cool burrowing and symbiosis, with 99% less fish-terrorizing.

never get a pistol shrimp

 

[Uncle99]

Cut your losses.
In the long term, you see less die.
They are very good hunters.
They can and will kill when the opportunity arises.

 

[Tired]

never get a pistol shrimp

I've had two pistol shrimp, and they remain some of the coolest animals I've ever kept. They're fascinating to watch, and really cool to show to people and tell them about. They can be pains in the behind, but if you make some accommodations for them, they can really be worth it.

Plus, surely you'd agree that a mantis shrimp is generally more trouble than a pistol shrimp.
(Or maybe not, what with your username.)

 

[Tnops]

I've had two pistol shrimp, and they remain some of the coolest animals I've ever kept. They're fascinating to watch, and really cool to show to people and tell them about. They can be pains in the behind, but if you make some accommodations for them, they can really be worth it.

Plus, surely you'd agree that a mantis shrimp is generally more trouble than a pistol shrimp.
(Or maybe not, what with your username.)

the thing is people usually don't get recommended mantis shrimps for a reef

 

[wwarby]

the thing is people usually don't get recommended mantis shrimps for a reef

In the UK it's virtually impossible to get any species other than the peacock mantis shrimp as far as I know - which worked for me because it's the only species I was interested in owning. But yeah, it's probably true that some other species are less problematic with tank mates

 

[wwarby]

I think you’re vastly underestimating how interesting and rewarding growing corals can be. Personally, I’d take a tank full of corals over a tank full of fish every day of the week. The diversity, challenge (or there are easy corals if you don’t want a challenge, the beauty, the otherworldly quality they have, they are just endlessly fascinating. I also get that they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I would try keeping some before writing the off.

Thanks Max, yeah I've heard this from other reefers too, and I agree it's worth at least trying corals before making any decision to give up. I do struggle to understand the fascination with corals at the moment. I can see that a tank with lots of corals is much more beautiful to look at than one without them, but intuitively they seem like a pretty backdrop to me that is kinda pointless if you don't have any fish swimming around them. I don't trust my intuition on this though - I've heard from enough people that they prefer keeping corals to fish that there must be something to it.

 

[wwarby]

I basically have the same setup for now, but my tank is near my pc, so my Shanks can always watch me and the screen haha.
I do think the molt might be your best bet, do note that it's not unusual for her to be reclusive afterwards, soft shell and all. Idk what you are feeding her, but it might also be a good idea to supplement frozen food with smth like Selcon. (I use AquaForest Garlic + Fish V since Selcon isn't available here).

They are intelligent creatures, so it's normal that they have a personality. It sucks but having to give it away because it doesn't bring you enough joy because it isn't as active, is absolutely valid and not shameful at all imo.

Bonus Video of my shanks running up to me

Very cool has Shanks lost one of her smashers?

My tank is also right next to my PC so I sit beside it all day during the week. I'll look into something like Selcon. I've heard before that soaking the food in nutrients is a good idea but it's one of those topics of research I haven't gotten into yet to understand why it's beneficial. My mantis shrimp is a good eater - I've fed her cockles, small frozen fish and prawns, and everything I've given her she's eaten without leaving any visible trace of leftovers. My nitrites and nitrates are high at the moment but I'm not sure whether that's down to overfeeding or because I didn't cycle the tank before I got her (I believed my LFS when they told me I didn't need to if using bottled bacteria), so I'm still finding my feet on that front. I'll get the hang of feeding the right amount and the right foods I'm sure.

 

[Antyama]

Very cool has Shanks lost one of her smashers?

My tank is also right next to my PC so I sit beside it all day during the week. I'll look into something like Selcon. I've heard before that soaking the food in nutrients is a good idea but it's one of those topics of research I haven't gotten into yet to understand why it's beneficial. My mantis shrimp is a good eater - I've fed her cockles, small frozen fish and prawns, and everything I've given her she's eaten without leaving any visible trace of leftovers. My nitrites and nitrates are high at the moment but I'm not sure whether that's down to overfeeding or because I didn't cycle the tank before I got her (I believed my LFS when they told me I didn't need to if using bottled bacteria), so I'm still finding my feet on that front. I'll get the hang of feeding the right amount and the right foods I'm sure.

Yeah, he misses one dactyl, which he will hopefully regrow during the next molt, so Shanks is kind of a temporary name haha.
About the selcon, I don't think it's necessary, especially if you feed a varied diet with lots of livefood, but it can't hurt imo. In my situation, it's very expensive in the long run to even buy hermit crabs or snails, so I have to mostly use frozen clams, shrimp etc., so a supplement helps with any missing nutrients
If you are scared because of your cycle, you could prolly ask the lfs for a piece of liverock or just some filtermaterial that you can stuff into your filtration system.

 

[Tiki_Reef]

Thanks Max, yeah I've heard this from other reefers too, and I agree it's worth at least trying corals before making any decision to give up. I do struggle to understand the fascination with corals at the moment. I can see that a tank with lots of corals is much more beautiful to look at than one without them, but intuitively they seem like a pretty backdrop to me that is kinda pointless if you don't have any fish swimming around them. I don't trust my intuition on this though - I've heard from enough people that they prefer keeping corals to fish that there must be something to it.

Trust me if I could keep coral without fish I would, but I realize the symbiotic relationship between the two.

 

[wwarby]

Id give it all the rubble and let him figure it out. If you really want fish then throw a few damsels in there. I doubt he will get them and if he does then hes doing you a favor cause they will torture most other fish.

Yeah, damsels do seem like a good option. They're cheap too. I think that probably will be the next fish to try.

As you see in my pics I made the mistake of using a white drain pipe, also with 3 entrances. He didn't like it and made a burrow right next to it. My understanding is they don't like multiple entrances so I put a large rock over the 3rd hole. Then he started to use the pipe more but still prefers the den he made.

That's really interesting. I haven't heard that about the multiple entrances before. My mantis seems quite happy with her burrow at the moment, using all three entrances equally and spending almost all her time in there. I went with significantly smaller pipes than you I think, 50mm so about 2 inches diameter. I've been told that might be too small. Others have said it's fine. I'm probably not going to change it though, because to do so I'd have to rip my whole aquascape apart and I can't bear the thought of trying something so disruptive at the moment unless I knew for certain it was a problem. I would always cover up one or two of the entrances though if I thought that would help.

How deep is your sand bed? I put about 2-3" of crushed coral for the top layer of a 6" sand bed to help his den keep some structure.

Mine is definitely shallower than that. I'd say around 2.5-3 inches deep - I basically did it enough to cover over the plastic tubing, thinking there was no need for it go any deeper as she wouldn't be creating a burrow by digging as I was providing one for her. Deepening it now would bury the existing burrow and mess up the aesthetics of my aquascape, so it'd be a big job to change it and not one I'd want to enter into lightly.

And although it's hard to see in the pics there's enough spacing between and behind my rocks for him to fit. The path is about 1" wider than he is and this was intentional. I'll draw a picture to give you an idea. It's going to look like a 3yo did it but hopefully it helps.

Really appreciate the effort you went to her to explain your setup. I definitely haven't given my mantis any practical way of hiding without using the tunnel I made for her. She has tried and failed to make alternatives. For the first couple of days she took up residence behind a rock, but she was still fairly exposed there before she found the tunnel.

Idk about feeding a peacock fish. It's a smasher and usually eats crustaceans. Maybe you turned him onto fish and now he's a fish junky and can't help himself? Either way don't leave him hungry and he probably won't be interested in the fish. I'd try feeding him every day until he throws the food back at you. Then adjust to his appetite. Maybe you need to feed every day? Who knows but my approach was to stuff him to the point he's rejecting food and keep him there. I don't think they kill just to kill because I've watched mine carry a live hermit crab out of his den and toss it into the rubble.

That seems like sage advice. I think she's only had two fish so far - I gave her those on the back of advice from another mantis owner on a different forum, one who also keeps three fish in his mantis tank. Also she was definitely gunning for my clown fish before I gave her the first of those frozen fish to eat. I did experiment with the technique you're proposing here, one week I fed her three times in four days and she lunged at the clowns about an hour after I fed her the third of those meals, so I took that as evidence she wasn't going for them out of hunger... but having said that she has never yet rejected a meal, so perhaps she was still hungry. I think I need to get my water quality under control before I start stuffing her with food but I will definitely try this strategy, especially if and when I get a new fish.

They definitely change behavior. Mine used to sit in the den all the time. Now it comes out of the den looks at me and does a few laps around the path. Sometimes I find him on top of the rocks.

Mine has varied her behaviour somewhat. I was on holiday recently and my cousin was house sitting - he said that one day she was out and about for most of the day. That was the day when she was really hungry because on LFS advice we'll put no food in the tank for 4 days. She does come out for a stroll around the tank at least once a day, usually in the morning - it's just not enough for me at the moment

The way I saw/see it is, the shrimp was yanked out of its home in the ocean, put in a bag, and probably had to be netted and acclimated to multiple water parameters and tanks before it ever got to me. So I expected it to take some time for it to feel safe and I think as time goes on its realizing it's his tank and he's not going to be evicted. Hope this helps and post some pics of your setup so we can see what you have going on.

Yeah this all makes good sense. I think you've given me the hope I needed that the current situation isn't necessarily the immutable end state, and it's worth persevering. I don't mind being in a situation where the tank isn't as interesting as I'd like it to be yet, as long as I know there's at least the possibility that the situation will improve. I'm going to keep going for a while at least, try some of the things you and others have suggested and see if I can get this tank looking a bit less empty and sterile.

Thanks again for all your advice and I will post some pics of my setup today.

 

[wwarby]

Trust me if I could keep coral without fish I would, but I realize the symbiotic relationship between the two.

Fascinating! I'm sure you must be in the minority there - but I'm definitely gonna at least try corals and see what the fuss is all about

 

[wwarby]

Yeah, he misses one dactyl, which he will hopefully regrow during the next molt, so Shanks is kind of a temporary name haha.
About the selcon, I don't think it's necessary, especially if you feed a varied diet with lots of livefood, but it can't hurt imo. In my situation, it's very expensive in the long run to even buy hermit crabs or snails, so I have to mostly use frozen clams, shrimp etc., so a supplement helps with any missing nutrients
If you are scared because of your cycle, you could prolly ask the lfs for a piece of liverock or just some filtermaterial that you can stuff into your filtration system.

Yeah, same here - I can buy fifty frozen cockels for the price of one live snail or hermit crab. Mine has had no live food at all except some river shrimp on her first day in the tank, which she's never getting again because she whacked the outer walls of the tank multiple times whilst chasing them down. I will try feeding her live crabs at some point when I can get up to the coast, but I think selcon or something like that is a good shout too.

My LFS does actually have liverock - one of the only shops in the UK that can get it, so that's probably also a very good suggestion. I have various stony things in my filtration system (a cannister, which the shop I got the mantis from recommended, and everyone else seems to think is the worst kind of filtration system) and I have quite a lot of caribsea life rock in my aquascape. I've also been using these PolyFilter sponges to soak up excess ammonia. The levels are stable, but still high and not coming down as fast as I'd like. I'll continue to get help from the LFS on that front though - my mantis seems to be coping in the meantime.

 

[ossifiedconscript]

If you are still interested in rehoming her, I would be more than happy to talk!

 

[wwarby]

If you are still interested in rehoming her, I would be more than happy to talk!

Ah thanks very much for that - I think I’m gonna persevere for now, but you’ll be my first contact if I decide to call it a day

 

[WhiskyTango]

The ole' house cat and parakeet problem

 

[wwarby]

So I went to the LFS today and got 2.5kg (5.5lbs) of live rock - some for the display tank and a bit more for the bottom of the canister filter. Also concluded through chatting with the staff that I may have been killing the bottled bacteria with some carbon I had in the filter which I had put in on advice from a different LFS for a different problem. I’ve added more bottled bacteria today too, so I’m hoping this week I’ll start to see my nitrites coming under control. At least my ammonia is low now, which is a relief.

 

[Tired]

Carbon shouldn't kill bacteria. All it does is absorb various compounds from the water. Heck, bacteria can grow on it.

If you have ammonia, you need to be doing big water changes to keep it as low as possible. You're basically doing a fish-in cycle, but with a more delicate invertebrate. Not ideal, and may explain part of why the mantis seems high-strung.