A Huge Problem IMO as to why tanks crash and we have so many problems with just about everything.

[Devaji]

Hey @Paul B and others. let me ask you all this question.
I really like this a porch to reefing also be a big fan of keep it natural. ATS guy here.

in the future I will be setting up a large fish only system of 350-720 gal where I want to have a healthy natural ecosystem.

the sand will be dry sand- special grade
rock mostly real reef rock
and reg. IO ASW

I was thinking I could get some biodeveristy by addng 10-20# of ocean rock from the keys as well as a pound or two of sand.

my main question is how does one start up and mature a system from scratch not living near the coast? I know how to cycle a tank but we are talking more in depth balanced system here.

the tank will be butterfly dominate with a few large and small angels and a tang or 3
I keep going back in forth about the whole QT thing.

 

[HuduVudu]

Hey @Paul B and others. let me ask you all this question.
I really like this a porch to reefing also be a big fan of keep it natural. ATS guy here.

in the future I will be setting up a large fish only system of 350-720 gal where I want to have a healthy natural ecosystem.

the sand will be dry sand- special grade
rock mostly real reef rock
and reg. IO ASW

I was thinking I could get some biodeveristy by addng 10-20# of ocean rock from the keys as well as a pound or two of sand.

my main question is how does one start up and mature a system from scratch not living near the coast? I know how to cycle a tank but we are talking more in depth balanced system here.

the tank will be butterfly dominate with a few large and small angels and a tang or 3
I keep going back in forth about the whole QT thing.

Real live rock.
Like this:

Pictures of Saltwater Live Rock at Live Rock N Reef

Come check out gorgeous photos of saltwater live rock available for your home or business saltwater aquarium.

www.liverocknreef.com

I think that your idea about collecting locally is sound. Florida rock is notorious for Mantis Shrimp watch for them.

 

[Sump Crab]

Hey @Paul B and others. let me ask you all this question.
I really like this a porch to reefing also be a big fan of keep it natural. ATS guy here.

in the future I will be setting up a large fish only system of 350-720 gal where I want to have a healthy natural ecosystem.

the sand will be dry sand- special grade
rock mostly real reef rock
and reg. IO ASW

I was thinking I could get some biodeveristy by addng 10-20# of ocean rock from the keys as well as a pound or two of sand.

my main question is how does one start up and mature a system from scratch not living near the coast? I know how to cycle a tank but we are talking more in depth balanced system here.

the tank will be butterfly dominate with a few large and small angels and a tang or 3
I keep going back in forth about the whole QT thing.

Start with the best, freshest rock you can afford/acquire. Thats the key IMO. Then add fish SLOWLY and keep up with water changes until the tank reaches maturity. Biodiversity is your friend so Florida rock and pacific rock would be ideal IMO.

 

[Devaji]

Start with the best, freshest rock you can afford/acquire. Thats the key IMO. Then add fish SLOWLY and keep up with water changes until the tank reaches maturity. Biodiversity is your friend so Florida rock and pacific rock would be ideal IMO.

yeah I have used both KP and TBS rock in different tanks over the years. pretty good stuff for sure. but with a large tank the cost for 100% LR only would be above my humble budget.

so I guess I was wondering with there is ways to get natural bac. and bio shipped in from the cost. besides LS, LR bac, in a bottle what else can a guy get?

 

[Sump Crab]

yeah I have used both KP and TBS rock in different tanks over the years. pretty good stuff for sure. but with a large tank the cost for 100% LR only would be above my humble budget.

so I guess I was wondering with there is ways to get natural bac. and bio shipped in from the cost. besides LS, LR bac, in a bottle what else can a guy get?

Just get the best rock you can afford in a quantity you can afford and then use dry rock as filler. Dont bother with that bacteria in a bottle junk. The LR will provide that for you.

 

[Paul B]

Whee you live it is tough. I think you should move.

In lieu of that. Live rock is your only option unless you know someone who lives near the shore almost anywhere who could send you living "gunk" from a very rich lagoon.

If you can get live rock that has real life on it I would feed the tank with clams if you could get them, but I doubt you can so I would at least sprinkle some sinking pellets in there for a few months.
I don't feed them to fish but you need to feed that dead sand so something grows on it and food is the only way.

Amphipods and copepods love pellets. I used to throw some behind my rocks just to get them going.
Don't worry about nitrate and other parameters for a while and I wouldn't add corals for a while.

Good luck.

 

[Kris 2020]

Okay I laughed really hard at this:
"But the difference in water from a coral reef and our tanks is that the water on a coral reef has been there long before Betty White was born and many of our tanks were started a week from last Tuesday."

I see a lot of truth in your post. It kinda plays along well with the “let your kids play in the mud, let them be dirty”. We are doing the same things with our offspring that we do with our fish. But then the dog goes out in the backyard every spring and eats 5 lbs of rabbit crap...and well, the dog is fine.

I've been in this hobby about 15 years and kept freshwater tanks before that. I’m on my third upgrade, but pieces of live rock and even some fish (looking at you gramma) have moved into each new tank, my current one being about 8 yrs old. I’ve never had a tank crash. I’ve gone thru stages where my husbandry hasn’t been great and I’ve lost coral because of that, and likely some fish. I keep reading about diseases and thinking wow, I guess I must be lucky, I don’t qt or dip or mess with my fish at all, I acclimate and dump them in. I don’t get to buy new fish too often because the tank is full, because they don’t often die. I guess I don't know what my point is but that I do agree with a lot of what you say. Maybe I'm lucky with my fish purchases being healthy, but so many people with diseased fish posting and so many dips and chemicals and meds, and I agree these do weaken a fish and can affect their immune system negatively.

 

[NDIrish]

I got a few oysters today. Put them in freezer so tomorrow I'll can start cut them up. They didn't have any clams.

 

[Kris 2020]

Just get the best rock you can afford in a quantity you can afford and then use dry rock as filler. Dont bother with that bacteria in a bottle junk. The LR will provide that for you.

I don’t understand the bacteria in a bottle fad. I mean, I understand it but I’m surprised it’s so popular. What ever happened to throwing some live rock in a tank. I used to get the best live rock from a lfs that has since closed. i remember my first set up, waiting until the lights went out and watching all the creepy crawlit’s come out with a flashlight. I even had a large mollusk of some kind. And yeah, the good comes with the bad, after I finally got fish I realized I had a parasitic isopod that would ride around on my fish...but I caught the fish and the pod popped off as soon as he was out of water and I never saw another one.

 

[Paul B]

but so many people with diseased fish posting and so many dips and chemicals and meds, and I agree these do weaken a fish and can affect their immune system negatively.

You just noticed that!!!

 

[tehmadreefer]

;Bookworm

 

[Kris 2020]

You just noticed that!!!

I’ve noticed a lot since joining this forum, it had been years since I’d been on a forum so maybe I had just forgotten all the number chasing and fish dipping and micromanaging and extreme lack of patience in a hobby where nothing good happens fast. I’m not the best reefer, certainly not the most knowledgeable, and we do all reef somewhat differently and I’m sure there is no “right” way necessarily. I’ve bought and ran every piece of equipment under the sun on my tank, I still do, plenty of it probably unnecessary, but I do it for the fish, coral and inverts health in mind, not to make their care easier or more convenient for me. But I do strongly believe there is a wrong way, when the animals lives are secondary to someone’s impatience, greed, or desires to house animals without researching needs and compatibilities, then asking for advice because the trigger in the 20 tall isn’t eating and seems stressed... Sorry now I’m ranting but there it is.

 

[Paul B]

I got a few oysters today. Put them in freezer so tomorrow I'll can start cut them up. They didn't have any clams.

Why would the oysters have clams?

 

[NDIrish]

Why would the oysters have clams?

They're strange like that.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Hey @Paul B and others. let me ask you all this question.
I really like this a porch to reefing also be a big fan of keep it natural. ATS guy here.

in the future I will be setting up a large fish only system of 350-720 gal where I want to have a healthy natural ecosystem.

the sand will be dry sand- special grade
rock mostly real reef rock
and reg. IO ASW

I was thinking I could get some biodeveristy by addng 10-20# of ocean rock from the keys as well as a pound or two of sand.

my main question is how does one start up and mature a system from scratch not living near the coast? I know how to cycle a tank but we are talking more in depth balanced system here.

the tank will be butterfly dominate with a few large and small angels and a tang or 3
I keep going back in forth about the whole QT thing.

Tampa Bay Saltwater ships their rock in water! I ordered some recently and I’m waiting on it to order. Their rock comes with a crazy amount of life including corals, sponges, macroalgae, crabs, etc. Their sand has awesome biodiversity in it also. It is the cheapest rock I’ve seen being at $5 per pound.

 

[Devaji]

Tampa Bay Saltwater ships their rock in water! I ordered some recently and I’m waiting on it to order. Their rock comes with a crazy amount of life including corals, sponges, macroalgae, crabs, etc. Their sand has awesome biodiversity in it also. It is the cheapest rock I’ve seen being at $5 per pound.

yeah I have bought from them on the past, I agree lots of life. I got lucky the air port forgot to charge me the air cargo.lol only problem with that rock is its quite dense but over all its good stuff.

 

[Paul B]

I feed live white worms to my tank a couple of times a week and I also add some soil along with the worms. I feel the bacteria in the worm guts is a fantastic thing and one of the secrets to this hobby and the dirt in their guts is the same dirt they are living in, so what the heck.
It never seemed to hurt and lately I have been adding more of that dirt.

 

[Devaji]

I feed live white worms to my tank a couple of times a week and I also add some soil along with the worms. I feel the bacteria in the worm guts is a fantastic thing and one of the secrets to this hobby and the dirt in their guts is the same dirt they are living in, so what the heck.
It never seemed to hurt and lately I have been adding more of that dirt.

nice! I plan on raising live white worms to feed. I found a video a while back that looked doable.

 

[WVNed]

I got my last culture on eBay here
https://www.ebay.com/itm/174239170392
It is doing really well. I got a lot of worms in enough dirt that I only had to add a small amount to fill the culture box to start.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

@Paul B

Thank you for your input on these forums. Your reasoning lines up very well with what I’ve learned about immunity and immune systems being the product of a family of doctors and nurses. I discovered the DSR system which I am all about because it seems like a good way for a young salt like myself to get past the idea that water changes are the be all end all. Also, I’ve dabbled in Buddhism. And balance is key. Maybe you saw the thread I made when I started thinking about setting up my tank with longevity in mind rather than instant success. Maybe not.

in any case, I appreciate your input because I’ve really wondered about the benefits of prophylacticly treating fish which are going to suffer from such stress after already being stressed out to the point of potentially dying.

idk. Suffice it to say I’m team biodiversity and trusting nature to handle things.

thanks you, you crazy old salt!