A Huge Problem IMO as to why tanks crash and we have so many problems with just about everything.

[Paul B]

. Maybe you saw the thread I made when I started thinking about setting up my tank with longevity in mind rather than instant success. Maybe not.

No, unfortunately I didn't see it. But I don't see a lot of things. I thought a long time about this and always wondered why so many people have so many problems with this. I can see having more problems with corals because they are very dependent on water conditions, temperature and lighting, fish are not and can live in a wide variety of conditions.

I also believe, as I mention to much that a fishes immune system is much better than ours. I of course am not a Doctor or play one on TV but it seems like common sense to me that fish are in contact with everything in the sea and evolved in it and the sea, if anything is more polluted now than it has ever been. But in the millennium since fish have been here no one has messed with their immune system "in the sea."

We humans on the other hand are no where near what we were a million or even a few hundred years ago. Modern methods of killing disease and all the medications and irradiated and sterilized foods we eat along with our clean water has helped keep us healthy, but at the cost of our immune system which doesn't have to work as hard to keep us healthy now that we are not exposed to Plague, Small pox, Polio, dirty food, water etc.
We now cook our meat and fish so there are no pathogens. Pathogens that our ancestors immune system used to deal with naturally.

It is something that we had to do because we were dying and that is progress as no one wants to die from those things.
But we were dying from them because we invented travel.

Before we traveled we went as far as the nearest Wolly Mammoth for a hamburger, then went home to smack our mates who then called a lawyer and after a lengthy court battle, owned our cave.

But we were immune from any diseases where we lived because we were born with an immunity that we inherited from our Mother.
Now a kid in Hunan China eats an infected bat that he bought at "Bats R US dot com" and his sister wants to go to school in Brooklyn New York so she borrows money and comes here where her room mate who is from Poland contracts Covid 19 and we know the rest of the story.

It was the same with Bubonic Plague which came on rodents through the silk road from China and killed a third of Europe.
Small pox was in Europe and when the Europeans came here to invent Amazon, they brought it with them and killed almost all of the native Americans who had no immunity.
These things didn't happen when we stayed put.

Fish don't have that problem because the oceans are well mixed. They only have problems when they are confined, starved, heated, cooled and bullied or filleted where they can't get away.

Then the dealer puts them in water with copper which as I said will kill or limit parasites and bacteria but do nothing for funguses and viruses.

We buy the fish and as soon as we get it home we see spots, rotted fins, pop eye and the thing is pooping in psychedelic colors while doing a head stand and we don't know why. So we use more medication rather than trying to reverse the original medication that caused the problem in the first place and we make different problems.

I find this hobby very simple, but I am a simple guy.
Of course the LFS has to medicate the fish because the fish are under stressful situations, but it should end there and allow the fishes immune system to be strengthened so it does it's job. Some fish may die, but some fish will die no matter what you do. The fish with the stronger immune system will be healthier for life and should live a long time, maybe longer than Betty White.

Just my opinion of course.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

No, unfortunately I didn't see it. But I don't see a lot of things. I thought a long time about this and always wondered why so many people have so many problems with this. I can see having more problems with corals because they are very dependent on water conditions, temperature and lighting, fish are not and can live in a wide variety of conditions.

I also believe, as I mention to much that a fishes immune system is much better than ours. I of course am not a Doctor or play one on TV but it seems like common sense to me that fish are in contact with everything in the sea and evolved in it and the sea, if anything is more polluted now than it has ever been. But in the millennium since fish have been here no one has messed with their immune system "in the sea."

We humans on the other hand are no where near what we were a million or even a few hundred years ago. Modern methods of killing disease and all the medications and irradiated and sterilized foods we eat along with our clean water has helped keep us healthy, but at the cost of our immune system which doesn't have to work as hard to keep us healthy now that we are not exposed to Plague, Small pox, Polio, dirty food, water etc.
We now cook our meat and fish so there are no pathogens. Pathogens that our ancestors immune system used to deal with naturally.

It is something that we had to do because we were dying and that is progress as no one wants to die from those things.
But we were dying from them because we invented travel.

Before we traveled we went as far as the nearest Wolly Mammoth for a hamburger, then went home to smack our mates who then called a lawyer and after a lengthy court battle, owned our cave.

But we were immune from any diseases where we lived because we were born with an immunity that we inherited from our Mother.
Now a kid in Hunan China eats an infected bat that he bought at "Bats R US dot com" and his sister wants to go to school in Brooklyn New York so she borrows money and comes here where her room mate who is from Poland contracts Covid 19 and we know the rest of the story.

It was the same with Bubonic Plague which came on rodents through the silk road from China and killed a third of Europe.
Small pox was in Europe and when the Europeans came here to invent Amazon, they brought it with them and killed almost all of the native Americans who had no immunity.
These things didn't happen when we stayed put.

Fish don't have that problem because the oceans are well mixed. They only have problems when they are confined, starved, heated, cooled and bullied or filleted where they can't get away.

Then the dealer puts them in water with copper which as I said will kill or limit parasites and bacteria but do nothing for funguses and viruses.

We buy the fish and as soon as we get it home we see spots, rotted fins, pop eye and the thing is pooping in psychedelic colors while doing a head stand and we don't know why. So we use more medication rather than trying to reverse the original medication that caused the problem in the first place and we make different problems.

I find this hobby very simple, but I am a simple guy.
Of course the LFS has to medicate the fish because the fish are under stressful situations, but it should end there and allow the fishes immune system to be strengthened so it does it's job. Some fish may die, but some fish will die no matter what you do. The fish with the stronger immune system will be healthier for life and should live a long time, maybe longer than Betty White.

Just my opinion of course.

I think you’re probably right about fish immune systems in the ocean vs the average American meat bag. Heck, I work with tiny humans and have for about 10 years. And between being exposed to all the little plague bearers in schools and now in there homes (AbA therapist is what I be), I can report that I fall ill far less often than my friends who work office jobs.

that’s just how nature works. It’s like a sword. It only works if you keep it sharp. Exposure to diverse pathogens sharpens the sword that is your immune system.

 

[Paul B]

Paul, your theory on how covid19 got started is wrong on so many levels. Please do your homework.

Paintman I appreciate your post but I think you read far to much into my threads.
You don't think I feel Neanderthals really hunted down a Wolly Mammoth to make a hamburger or that fish need the essence from Christopher Columbus underwear wash water or water from New York Frankfurter carts do you?

I just write like I speak and I speak weird.

 

[Paul B]

I realize as Paintman said sometimes my posts don't come off as totally PC and I can see that. I am old, have been through a lot and my generation was never PC which gives people the wrong Idea about me and many Geezers.

We don't mean to offend anyone and even my wife tells me that I often don't come off good while talking to people I don't know.

I have no animosity towards any people, race, religion, ethnicity, color, social status, height or hair cut.
I like to write in a way that I think some people may find interesting and not just boring facts. I can write like that but it would take great effort because I don't even think in boring facts. ;Meh

In a few days this thread was read over 9,000 times so at least a few people are not to offended.

Of course there may be 18,000 people who are offended and I would hope they would not read my posts because at my age, I am probably not going to change much.

But not to worry because of my age, I am sure I will croak soon and everyone can read their Facebook or Twitter account.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

I realize as Paintman said sometimes my posts don't come off as totally PC and I can see that. I am old, have been through a lot and my generation was never PC which gives people the wrong Idea about me and many Geezers.

We don't mean to offend anyone and even my wife tells me that I often don't come off good while talking to people I don't know.

I have no animosity towards any people, race, religion, ethnicity, color, social status, height or hair cut.
I like to write in a way that I think some people may find interesting and not just boring facts. I can write like that but it would take great effort because I don't even think in boring facts. ;Meh

In a few days this thread was read over 9,000 times so at least a few people are not to offended.

Of course there may be 18,000 people who are offended and I would hope they would not read my posts because at my age, I am probably not going to change much.

But not to worry because of my age, I am sure I will croak soon and everyone can read their Facebook or Twitter account.

You have some of the most entertaining and insightful content on here my friend! You also give me hope! I’m really aiming to grow old with my tank when I finally set it up. Heck, maybe one day I’ll be the fish food LOL

 

[NashobaTek]

+1 on the old geezer Paul B. I am not PC and probably never will be either.

 

[HuduVudu]

I realize as Paintman said sometimes my posts don't come off as totally PC and I can see that. I am old, have been through a lot and my generation was never PC which gives people the wrong Idea about me and many Geezers.

We don't mean to offend anyone and even my wife tells me that I often don't come off good while talking to people I don't know.

I have no animosity towards any people, race, religion, ethnicity, color, social status, height or hair cut.
I like to write in a way that I think some people may find interesting and not just boring facts. I can write like that but it would take great effort because I don't even think in boring facts. ;Meh

In a few days this thread was read over 9,000 times so at least a few people are not to offended.

Of course there may be 18,000 people who are offended and I would hope they would not read my posts because at my age, I am probably not going to change much.

But not to worry because of my age, I am sure I will croak soon and everyone can read their Facebook or Twitter account.

Paul what you said was fine. IMHO a vast majority would be completely comfortable with what you said, because they have senses of humor. There is always a screeching minority, there will always be. We call them wet blankets.

Some people just want hate for no other reason to hate. You don't need to apologize to them. You were conveying an idea and if some people don't want to see the idea then you don't need to explain yourself. Again what you said was just fine.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Hey @PaulB I read over this thread over the last couple days and I'm curious why you said that when you used beach sand it was a disaster (I did see where you said it was too fine, is that the only reason)?

Just curious as I've been using beach sand for 10 years and don't understand why more people on the coast don't used it.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

 

[NashobaTek]

Hey @PaulB I read over this thread over the last couple days and I'm curious why you said that when you used beach sand it was a disaster (I did see where you said it was too fine, is that the only reason)?

Just curious as I've been using beach sand for 10 years and don't understand why more people on the coast don't used it.

Pollution is one factor, but if I was near the coast I would be using it for the tank

 

[NashobaTek]

Hey @PaulB I read over this thread over the last couple days and I'm curious why you said that when you used beach sand it was a disaster (I did see where you said it was too fine, is that the only reason)?

Just curious as I've been using beach sand for 10 years and don't understand why more people on the coast don't used it.

Pollution is one factor, but if I was near the coast I would be using it for the tank

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Honestly, this isn’t any better than misreading Paul’s humor. You’re not really fostering anything other than further division with this way of thinking. Let’s be a bit more understanding, open-minded, and empathetic, shall we?

 

[xxkenny90xx]

Pollution is one factor, but if I was near the coast I would be using it for the tank

Ya I get the pollution thing (but I don't think that is his reasoning since he adds ocean mud all the time), I'm not sure that Paul would approve but I thoroughly clean all beach sand before adding it to my tank (rinse, boil, rinse, boil, rinse).

 

[creativeballance]

Honestly, this isn’t any better than misreading Paul’s humor. You’re not really fostering anything other than further division with this way of thinking. Let’s be a bit more understanding, open-minded, and empathetic, shall we?

Maybe.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

Maybe.

 

[GeoSquid]

You think this type of product has live bacteria?

 

[creativeballance]

You think this type of product has live bacteria?

No. Because its out of stock.

 

[BeltedCoyote]

You think this type of product has live bacteria?

Snarky answer aside, probably not due to the processing that goes into packaging something like that

 

[Paul B]

Hey @PaulB I read over this thread over the last couple days and I'm curious why you said that when you used beach sand it was a disaster (I did see where you said it was too fine, is that the only reason)?

Just curious as I've been using beach sand for 10 years and don't understand why more people on the coast don't used it.

I think I said beach sand from northern beaches will be a disaster because it is very fine. The place where I collect amphipods and mud is in New York and our silica sand is so fine that under only 1/4" of sand is all hydrogen sulfide because there is no oxygen there. The sand is just much to fine. Forget pollution and all that. There is no pollution in ocean beach sand especially if you take it where it is wet which means that every 12 hours it is under water. Water is the universal solvent and in a day or two will wash off any Coppertone or anything else.

How much suntan oil do you think is in sand? You would really have to dump a bottle of that stuff on, then roll around in the exact spot you are collecting sand.

Just remove the cigarette butts and bikini tops and use the sand. But not the stuff from northern beaches.


It's life, get over it.

 

[fishybizzness]

Keep doing what you do Paul! We all look forward to your posts and the truth is that most of us wouldn't want you any other way! Stay safe!