A lot of aggression from ocellaris clownfish! Advice needed

[Rohirrimus]

Hello reefers,
I need help pairing ( or at least calming down) my clownfish.

To give some background:
a week ago I got 2 clowns ( from the same LFS, same tank, both ocellaris, one black, one orange).
After a lot of fighting (black one bullying orange), I isolated a black one in the breeder box. then overnight the orange one jumped out

I released the black one from the breeder box and went and got another orange.
Same thing
They were nice to each other for an hour or so, I even saw the orange one giving that "wiggle", but then the fighting started.
I isolated the black one for a day, then today tried again, this is how it looked:

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I have since isolated the black one in the breeder box again. While in there the orange one is pretty calmly swimming next to the breeder box.

I'm not sure how to proceed. I know they fight to establish Sex, but this looks like way too much for me.
All advice is welcome. Thanks

 

[John Bolden]

Mine are similar to yours and haven't stopped

 

[flashsmith]

I honestly don't think there's much you can do. They will keep at it until one is dead. I've tried and failed numerous times to pair clowns. One is best IMO. I have 4 anthias. One male and three females until one of the females started transitioning. They chase each other all day eventually one will be dead.

 

[Rohirrimus]

Mine are similar to yours and haven't stopped

But they are together or isolated? For how is it going? What annoys me is that these clowns came from the same tank ,
And from what I’m seeing ( with my unexpected eye) is that orange one is clearly showing submission, but black one is acting like it’s coked up.
Another thing I noticed is that few days ago it used to be worst during feeding, if I even come close to the tank it would go crazy.
now being isolated it’s calming down a bit (not trying to punch through the breeder ) , I think there used to be a lot of fighting for food in LFS tank

 

[SlugSnorter]

Some clowns are killers. Maybe just don't pair

 

[Sharkbait19]

This black clown doesn’t like others. The white and orange morphs of clowns tend to be more peaceful and can’t handle the aggression from the black morphs.
As said, this will continue until separated or the male is dead.
I’d recommend trying a mate significantly smaller than the female to increase chances of submission.

 

[SlugSnorter]

This black clown doesn’t like others. The white and orange morphs of clowns tend to be more peaceful and can’t handle the aggression from the black morphs.
As said, this will continue until separated or the male is dead.
I’d recommend trying a mate significantly smaller than the female to increase chances of submission.

are you getting war flashbacks

 

[Sharkbait19]

are you getting war flashbacks

They’re in the nems, man…
There weren’t any nems back home…

…That’s probably in bad taste…but still funny…

 

[Rohirrimus]

This black clown doesn’t like others. The white and orange morphs of clowns tend to be more peaceful and can’t handle the aggression from the black morphs.
As said, this will continue until separated or the male is dead.
I’d recommend trying a mate significantly smaller than the female to increase chances of submission.

But the submission seems to be there. I saw the orange one giving that "wiggle" multiple times. Even now while black is in the breeder box the orange seems to be swimming next to it all the time (even in the feeding time it doesn't leave the breeder box side, it just kind of waits for the flow to bring food closer).

anyway, I am not giving up yet, my plan, for now, was to leave black in the breeder for 5 days, then try again.
if it doesn't work I'm not sure what to do next, should I put black in the breeder again or should I try the orange one?
do you think 5 days is a good amount or should I do more ( or less) ?
Thanks

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Take the two fish back and exchange them for a small young pair.

 

[Rohirrimus]

Take the two fish back and exchange them for a small young pair.

I can’t they don’t exchange livestock

 

[Lyss]

Take the two fish back and exchange them for a small young pair.

This. My feeling is that they need to be babies, and one should be a bit obviously bigger than the other. Mine came in that way and matured and paired pretty seamlessly. They fight from time to time (as in she is aggressive towards him until he does the shakes and submits), but they’re inseparable. They’re both black, but the little guy has some orange on him around his face. Coming in as babies also allowed them to bond w/my blenny, and that whole group is peaceful w/one another.

 

[Rohirrimus]

This. My feeling is that they need to be babies, and one should be a bit obviously bigger than the other. Mine came in that way and matured and paired pretty seamlessly. They fight from time to time (as in she is aggressive towards him until he does the shakes and submits), but they’re inseparable. They’re both black, but the little guy has some orange on him around his face. Coming in as babies also allowed them to bond w/my blenny, and that whole group is peaceful w/one another.

Hmm well they are not that big either . Guess I will try for couple of weeks, if nothing pans out I’ll Try and give the black one to someone. Besides that what would you suggest to try in pairing them?

 

[rmorris_14]

If it doesn’t work out.. your best chance is to get one that is significantly smaller than the aggressor.

 

[SlugSnorter]

I can’t they don’t exchange livestock

can you turn them in for store credit

 

[Lyss]

Hmm well they are not that big either . Guess I will try for couple of weeks, if nothing pans out I’ll Try and give the black one to someone. Besides that what would you suggest to try in pairing them?

There really isn’t anything you can do aside from let them work it out, or if the aggressor is seriously going to kill the other, take one back and swap for a much smaller one.

The best way to be set up for success is have one visibly bigger than the other. Yours look to be about the same size to me, unless I’m not seeing that correctly. And when I say mine were babies, they were literally babies — not yet fully mature, and the one that is now black wasn’t yet black. They matured together, and now they’re mature and paired.

 

[mehaffydr]

If they were in the same tank at the fish store but that tank had a lot of clowns in it what happens is that the aggression is split up among all of the fish so there is not just one fish getting bullied so you just don't see the aggression. Then when you separate out the 2 the one has just one fish to attack.

 

[Rohirrimus]

can you turn them in for store credit

Sadly no, I think they just don’t want to risk it on livestock returns in case of disease / pests

 

[Rohirrimus]

There really isn’t anything you can do aside from let them work it out, or if the aggressor is seriously going to kill the other, take one back and swap for a much smaller one.

The best way to be set up for success is have one visibly bigger than the other. Yours look to be about the same size to me, unless I’m not seeing that correctly. And when I say mine were babies, they were literally babies — not yet fully mature, and the one that is now black wasn’t yet black. They matured together, and now they’re mature and paired.

The orange one is smaller (not a lot but visibly) , just I guess angles Al don’t show it that good. Black has been in breeder for 2 days now, orange one still swimming next to it all the time. Think I’ll try for another week or two , if it doesn’t work out I’ll just give away black one to some local reefer

 

[Dburr1014]

The other thing you can do is buy 2 more small clowns. The aggression is now spread between 3 and the dominant (female) will pick a mate of the three. Sell or put the other 2 in another tank. Maybe the 2 will form a pair and sell them as a pair for more money.