A lot of known people dont QUARANTINE!!!

[Lasse]

. My feeling after seeing that was some fish need companionship to not feel stressed.

Most of the fishes we have is fishes evolved and adapted to reefs. They are also colourful - not the camoflauge you can see in sand dwelling species. Why can fish that is bounded to reefs (or stony habitants as Malawi Cichlids) evolv as bright colours reef fishes and Malawi cichlids have. The answer to this is IMO at least partly that these fishes best defence for not be eaten is that they can hide very fast - the colours is not negatively affecting their ability to survive. However if they not quickly observe a danger and not seek cover fast enough - they will be short lived. One of the factors is - in an environment that´s normally full of other fish - if they can see other or not. If they not see any other - its a sign of danger - they automatically seek for hiding places. IMO - you are very right. When I was in the cichlid hobby we often had to treat individual fishes in hospital tanks. We did not do any blind tests but we saw that a fish we need to treat or was recovering from a fight normally survive and recover more quickly if there was other fish in the tank. We always had 10 - 15 guppies in the hospital tank

Sincerely Lasse

 

[OU812Reefing]

I don’t quarantine but that works for me do what you feel and need to do it’s your tank no one has any say in what you do

 

[flashsmith]

I'm not known and I don't quarantine. Just find a good LFS who is honest and takes care of their fish and you shouldn't need to. I know that's a hard find these days but they do exist.. I've never gotten a sick fish from the one I use. The very first and only time I ordered fish online I had a terrible ich outbreak and the fish looked liked skeletons. If they try to sell you a blue hippo tang for your 50 gallon. Go somewhere else..

 

[Lyss]

Most of the fishes we have is fishes evolved and adapted to reefs. They are also colourful - not the camoflauge you can see in sand dwelling species. Why can fish that is bounded to reefs (or stony habitants as Malawi Cichlids) evolv as bright colours reef fishes and Malawi cichlids have. The answer to this is IMO at least partly that these fishes best defence for not be eaten is that they can hide very fast - the colours is not negatively affecting their ability to survive. However if they not quickly observe a danger and not seek cover fast enough - they will be short lived. One of the factors is - in an environment that´s normally full of other fish - if they can see other or not. If they not see any other - its a sign of danger - they automatically seek for hiding places. IMO - you are very right. When I was in the cichlid hobby we often had to treat individual fishes in hospital tanks. We did not do any blind tests but we saw that a fish we need to treat or was recovering from a fight normally survive and recover more quickly if there was other fish in the tank. We always had 10 - 15 guppies in the hospital tank

Sincerely Lasse

This is exactly the feeling I got from my first fish’s body language — he was worried about what danger he couldn’t see in such an empty place. I took video of him watching the clowns that went in the next week. He lay low and watched them w/interest for a bit, then they noticed and went to him, and his demeanor immediately changed.

 

[Righteous]

Most of the fishes we have is fishes evolved and adapted to reefs. They are also colourful - not the camoflauge you can see in sand dwelling species. Why can fish that is bounded to reefs (or stony habitants as Malawi Cichlids) evolv as bright colours reef fishes and Malawi cichlids have. The answer to this is IMO at least partly that these fishes best defence for not be eaten is that they can hide very fast - the colours is not negatively affecting their ability to survive. However if they not quickly observe a danger and not seek cover fast enough - they will be short lived. One of the factors is - in an environment that´s normally full of other fish - if they can see other or not. If they not see any other - its a sign of danger - they automatically seek for hiding places. IMO - you are very right. When I was in the cichlid hobby we often had to treat individual fishes in hospital tanks. We did not do any blind tests but we saw that a fish we need to treat or was recovering from a fight normally survive and recover more quickly if there was other fish in the tank. We always had 10 - 15 guppies in the hospital tank

Sincerely Lasse

Lasse, that’s such an important point. An empty tank is a sign of a predator. Stick your hand fast and menacingly in the tank and watch the tank look empty as every fish goes diving. Other fish are also very aware of other fishes responses. Just this morning I had to fix a frag and I startled my rabbit fish. He jumped and every other fish immediately hid. I think it would be insane to argue that fish don’t feel significant stress if they are alone in a tank, and this should be a consideration when acquiring new fish, whether quarantining or not.

 

[Righteous]

Since there’s been some discussion of “fish feelings” here, I thought I’d suggest an amazing book:

What a Fish Knows: The Inner Lives of Our Underwater Cousins




Here’s a brief excerpt:

“Being able to remove oneself from fearful situations is not only important to survival, it favors long-term health. It is well known from unsettling studies of rats, dogs, monkeys, and other species—and indeed, from human victims of war and other prolonged hardships—that unrelieved stress can lead to all sorts of problems, including anxiety, depression, and lowered immunity. One of our bodies’ responses to stress is to release cortisol. This so-called stress hormone acts to regulate stress, and it performs this function in other vertebrates, including fishes. A team of scientists from the Max Planck Institute of Neurobiology and the University of California studied genetically manipulated zebrafishes with a cortisol deficit. These fishes suffered from consistently high levels of stress, and they showed signs of depression in behavioral tests. When normal zebrafishes are placed in new surroundings they act withdrawn and swim around hesitantly in the first few minutes. But curiosity soon prevails and they begin to investigate their new tank. In contrast, the mutant fishes showed great difficulty becoming accustomed to their new situation, and they had a particularly strong reaction to being alone: they sank to the bottom of the tank and stayed completely still. The fishes’ behavior returned to normal when either of two drugs—diazepam (Valium), an antianxiety drug, or fluoxetine (Prozac), an antidepressant—was added to the water. Social interactions, consisting of visual interaction with other zebrafishes through the aquarium wall, also helped alleviate depressive behavior in the mutant individuals.”

 

[Lyss]

Lasse, that’s such an important point. An empty tank is a sign of a predator. Stick your hand fast and menacingly in the tank and watch the tank look empty as every fish goes diving. Other fish are also very aware of other fishes responses. Just this morning I had to fix a frag and I startled my rabbit fish. He jumped and every other fish immediately hid. I think it would be insane to argue that fish don’t feel significant stress if they are alone in a tank, and this should be a consideration when acquiring new fish, whether quarantining or not.

I know what I took away from my experience was I’ll think twice about adding just one fish to an empty tank first. I did it b/c I didn’t want to overwhelm the newly populated bacteria, but a pair would’ve likely been fine.

 

[Sean_B]

I've found this to be one of, if not the most informative thread to date I have read through.

Hindsight, to QT or Not QT seems to be a casualty of instant gratification in most cases. I've been keeping a close eye on the "Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis" threads for the past 2 months, mainly because I DO NOT like surprises that can be avoided. Right now on page one (20 threads), there are 14 threads that just happen to coincide with tanks ranging from 2 months to 2 years old (70%), and 2 more threads in the 3 year range.

Of the 4 older tanks on page one, 3 of them in the 5 year plus range and 1 in the 4 year plus range, 2 of them are new tanks/aquascapes. Now you are at 80% "newish" tanks. These numbers also don't reflect the, probably huge, percentage of hobbyist that throw in the towel under 12 months.

Another recent interesting thread, https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...cling conventional wisdom poll: Another one?? I had not read information/thoughts on "Cycling Capacity", that Soren wrote about anywhere else. Not even in the thread "Should We Rethink and Refine Means and Methods for Cycling Tanks?" (maybe I missed it).

While the information relating New Tanks and Disease is everywhere, there seems to be a complete lack of conversation on Rushing Tanks into maturity, or more to my point immaturity. From what I've read so far, pests and diseases in most cases get instantly thrown into the debate of to QT or Not to QT and less talk about Immature Tanks, Minimal Microbiomes, Overloaded Bioloads, Incompatible Tankmates, Lack of Hiding Spots and stress in general.

I want a tank yesterday, but not as bad as I want a successful/happy tank. Fish, in my opinion, don't belong in the "consumables" category in this hobby.

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