A lot of known people dont QUARANTINE!!!

Ryde

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Hello guys I am so so so confused. Should i quarantine or not? A lot of “famous” people on youtube like reef dork, inappropriate reefer, and fish of hex dont quarantine their fish and they have proof of how successful their reef tanks are.

Based on my experience I am an advocate of 1-4 months of quarantining your fish, because i have personally lost thousands and thousands of dollars after not quarantining before on my Fowlr and my nano reef years back.

Now once again I am seeing a lot of people not quarantining fish. I just started my new aquarium and I heard before that I should quarantine before putting it on my DT but what if there are 0 live stocks in there other than a quarantined sps and CUC.
Unsure if this has been brought up but, there are fish vendors that sale quarantine fish. I'm not a pro on the subject just thought i would mention it.
 

Paul B

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Don’t believe that for a second
How about two seconds?
Or they have never publicly admitted an issue.
Thats it. Stinkin Liars. :rolleyes:
Why are wild-caught fish so easily infected when exposed then? Weren't they eating fresh seafood in the ocean?
I don't find them to be easily infected at all. I feel long quarantine and medication allows them to get infectd. I added a fish yesterday and 2 last week. But my fish never get infectd. I just don't get it and I really, honestly don't understand all the problems in this hobby and I just find it silly.
How does quarantining a fish conflict with the PaulB way of keeping a fish?
It doesn't. "Long"quarantining like 70 days should weaken a fishes immune system just by the fact that fish are built to be living and eating parasites with every meal. If you feed fish food containing what they get in the sea they should be fine. A short quarantine should be fine, but copper or any poison or a long time without being exposed to what we would call pathogens is the problem.

I think the best thing to do, if you are worried about parasites is like I just said. Diatom filter.
(The people laughing do not have old,healthy systems where the fish die only of old age)

Take your new fish and if you like put it in a seperate tank with no medication. ( you can even call it quarantine) A realtank decorated with rocks, or bricks but not a bare tankwith PVC elbows. Run the diatom filter fora couple of weeks while feeding th fish real food like it would get in the sea. Clams,mussels or oysters would be best, (not from a LFS) no dry or processed foods.

After two or three weeks if the fish looks well, put it in your tan but keep feeding what I said. Your realtank needs to have many "good" hiding places,not a couple of large caves. Places where the fish can't see you.

Stress in fish is much worse than any parhogen you can imagine.

I feel this method is a meld between both systems and stillkeeps the fishes immunity while not eliminating all the parasites.

For people who feel 74 day quarantine with medication is the way to go, do that. Just remember, there are no, or almost no old healthy fish like that. Think aboutthe reasons for that.

We want the fish to be and stay healthy. Only their own immunity can do that as fish don't have access to all the hospitals and HMOs as we do. ( those of us that got the Covid shot did that to become immune to it. We could have just moved to an uninhabited Island where we would not be exposed to it but some of us want to stay here so we can watch the reunion of "Friends" :rolleyes: )

It's like algae. We have been trying to eliminate it for decades. But us old guys found out how to live with it and use it's qualities for our benefit in an algae scrubber.

We can use "parasites" the same way for the benefit of the fish. They alone are the best way we have to keep fish immune.
Parasites won't hurt the fish if they are doing what they do in the sea and have been since before Nancy Pelosi were born.

Us Humans house many parasites and we are just fine.

Of course we don't want them getting to epidemic proportions and if we run the tankcorrectly, they won't.

But if we totally eliminate them, we will need the disease forum or constant medication. Just look at Jays or anyone on the disease forum. One medication after another and that is because using a poison lie any medication will kill bacteria, parasites, viruses funguses etc. But those things will return at different times. All those thyings together keep each one in ckeck, never leting one ge the upper hand. Thats why tanks crash.

Sorry typing with my pinkie and tired of correcting. But I psted this 8,000 times.

I also linked many new scientific studies saying what I have been saying forever
 

Tamberav

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I just use the hybrid TTM method. Fish are not exposed to copper and crap. Then I feed them like how Paul B feeds.

Loving the results. The fish ate through TTM just fine, literally eating 15 min after the transfer. Clearly being out of the water for 5 seconds wasn't that stressful.. it's not like I have to chase them around to catch them in a small TTM tank. Scoop and plop. I am sure shipping to my LFS was worse.
 

NashobaTek

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Not to mention that eventually everything becomes immune to the drug you're constantly using for everything. It's happening in humans and livestock!

If I don't have to use drugs or stress out the animals then I'm not going to. But as I said before it's a choice I make for my animals.
Yes I vaccinate my dog and livestock for what I can but I use other meds very sparingly. Haven't had anything die yet.
Edit: I have had 1 die by power head suicide.
 

zalick

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I have not lost a single fish to a "comunicable" disease in maybe 40 years....But never ich, velvet, uromoma or those "catchy" things and I have kept every fish "keepable"
Thats it. Stinkin Liars. :rolleyes:
Except that you did a month or so ago. Despite saying it wasn’t really “your” fish, it was your fish, and it died of ich in your tank.:rolleyes:

we can go round and round on semantics of “my fish” versus “not my fish”. But again, when you say I’ve never lost a fish to ich in the last 40 years, that is demonstrably false. You have lost a fish to ich in the last 40 years.
 

NeonRabbit221B

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Except that you did a month or so ago. Despite saying it wasn’t really “your” fish, it was your fish, and it died of ich in your tank.:rolleyes:

we can go round and round on semantics of “my fish” versus “not my fish”. But again, when you say I’ve never lost a fish to ich in the last 40 years, that is demonstrably false. You have lost a fish to ich in the last 40 years.
To be fair @Paul B you did just mention a few days ago you lost that cardinal (or he is MIA). I think the "never lost a fish" claim should be reworded to "I don't have mass die off events because my fish are healthy and have an immunity due to constant exposure to said parasites".

How long does a fish need to be exposed and live in your tank to be "your" fish and gain immunity? Is it simply you have never lost a fish due to a transmitted illness?
 

NowGlazeIT

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Virtually all FW fish come from large, captive breeding facilities where they carefully null out disease prone fish and essentially everything is quarantined.

With rare exception SW fish come from the wild....where I wish they would stay.
Plenty of hatcheries for SW ornamentals out there. Takes a little more searching and a lot more money. But a reef tank with aquacultured coral and Captive Bred fish is very possible.
 
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zalick

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To be fair @Paul B you did just mention a few days ago you lost that cardinal (or he is MIA). I think the "never lost a fish" claim should be reworded to "I don't have mass die off events because my fish are healthy and have an immunity due to constant exposure to said parasites".

How long does a fish need to be exposed and live in your tank to be "your" fish and gain immunity? Is it simply you have never lost a fish due to a transmitted illness?
I feel like the bad guy pointing this out when it comes up it in various threads but think it’s important for new reefers making decisions on their own process.

I personally have never medicated my fish. (I did purchase pre QT fish online 2 months ago and it was a disaster). For most of my reefing life I’ve put fish straight in the DT. I do now have an established observation tank for introducing new fish. In 23yrs I have never lost an established fish in my DT to a parasite/bacteria/virus. I have lost brand new fish in the established observation tank to uronema, just like Paul losing the cardinal to ich.
 

Lost in the Sauce

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Hello guys I am so so so confused. Should i quarantine or not? A lot of “famous” people on youtube like reef dork, inappropriate reefer, and fish of hex dont quarantine their fish and they have proof of how successful their reef tanks are.

Based on my experience I am an advocate of 1-4 months of quarantining your fish, because i have personally lost thousands and thousands of dollars after not quarantining before on my Fowlr and my nano reef years back.

Now once again I am seeing a lot of people not quarantining fish. I just started my new aquarium and I heard before that I should quarantine before putting it on my DT but what if there are 0 live stocks in there other than a quarantined sps and CUC.
Who cares what YouTubers do it what any other Name does.. They aren't going to pay the bill when you lose every fish to velvet.

They're not going to be seeing up additional tanks to run your main tank fallow for months for you.

You said you've already lost fish by NOT qt'ing. I don't understand why you are confused. If you didn't learn the first time, you may learn it again...
 

Paul B

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we can go round and round on semantics of “my fish” versus “not my fish”.
OMG. Yes we can. And if I expose a fish to Rap music until it is almost dead and throw it in my tank where it dies in 5 minutes, I will still say the same thing. I stand by what I said. I have not lost a fish to a communicable disease in 40
years. You can spin that any way that makes you happy. :cool:

. In 23yrs I have never lost an established fish in my DT to a parasite/bacteria/virus. I have lost brand new fish in the established observation tank to uronema, just like Paul losing the cardinal to ich.
Exactly. I really don't like to have every word scrutinized as I am sure you knew exactly what I meant.
 

vtecintegra

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Personally, the neighbor's rooster is working for me. Every morning when the sun comes up, the rooster crows. So far, no ich in my tank. Well, maybe TTM might have something to do with it, too. TTM Roster Method for me :)
 

DarthChaos

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Never QT'd a fish yet....and have never needed a QT tank.

You run a tank - with skimmers, media, UV sterilizer and all sorts of stuff....to keep the tank and water "clean". Full of live rock, bacterial life and fishy friends.

Yet - we setup a QT, with a hang out filter - piece of ABS pipe and expect a sick fish.....to get better? #smh

I've noticed, people tend to freak out - misdiagnosis Ich. Fish gets a piece of sand or crud stuck too it.....so you spend 30 mins, chasing it down - toss it in a tank 1/4 or less, the tank it came from and start treating it? If that fish wasn't sick before....its sure as hell probably gonna be susceptible now.

Stressville - population: 1

I've had this debate so many times....people forget, given the right tools - fish CAN fight off parasites. Absolutely...Velvet and some of the more severe stuff - warrants more action, but the question then should be asked - how did it happen in the first place? Either....you failed to keep a proper environment or you failed to buy a healthy fish. Fish - don't just "get sick", like people - theres a reason.

Reefers keep the water - fish keep themselves. Run a healthy tank, practice good husbandry, feed fish good, quality food - and, you'd be blown away.....how easy things can be.

....if you feel the NEED to QT a new fish (because you are concerned about health) - maybe you should reassess why you're buying it in the first place. I dont buy from places, that I'm 100% confident in their tanks. I dont think I'm just lucky, Ive never had an ill fish - I think I just make better choices.

#justmy2cents
 

kenchilada

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I don't find them to be easily infected at all. I feel long quarantine and medication allows them to get infectd. I added a fish yesterday and 2 last week. But my fish never get infectd. I just don't get it and I really, honestly don't understand all the problems in this hobby and I just find it silly.
But I've been at many LFSs many times when shipments arrived and seen first hand that fish frequently come in already infected and suffering. Do you try to avoid buying symptomatic fish? It is incredible that you are able to maintain a fish's immune system at a level that it never succumbs to disease for so many years.

It doesn't. "Long"quarantining like 70 days should weaken a fishes immune system just by the fact that fish are built to be living and eating parasites with every meal. If you feed fish food containing what they get in the sea they should be fine. A short quarantine should be fine, but copper or any poison or a long time without being exposed to what we would call pathogens is the problem.
Hmm... so you feel the absence of ich/velvet/uronema being ingested by the fish is what causes them to become susceptible to being overwhelmed by these pathogens in later encounters? Not the medication itself?

Are these pathogens present at such significant bulk in their diet in the wild? I have read previously it is uncommon for fish to even encounter parasites because of the vastness of the ocean (thought I cannot seem to find that info now).

I think the best thing to do, if you are worried about parasites is like I just said. Diatom filter.
(The people laughing do not have old,healthy systems where the fish die only of old age)
Haven't run one since the late 90's but I agree they are underappreciated. I don't know why. Yet I no longer own one, so... yeah. :p

It's like algae. We have been trying to eliminate it for decades. But us old guys found out how to live with it and use it's qualities for our benefit in an algae scrubber.

But algae scrubbers are simple machines that remove N/P byproducts and have measurable results. DE and UV filters are effective but their results are not measurable. The appeal of medication is that you can eliminate unwanted pathogens with reasonable certainty with correct application and procedures.

Your results are impressive, but your method seems more art than science and it is hard for me to translate into actionable steps that I could follow to reproduce your results. Partly because I feel I have done the same thing as you for many years. I've only quarantined/medicated the past year because of fish prices and getting a large tank. I always feed live blackworms. Every single day. I've fed fresh/frozen seafood since 2001. I know this because I still have the white KitchenAid food processor I bought at Sam's Club for that purpose. So I am curious why I have had fish get infected and die from various "communicable diseases" several times over the years and you have not. I suspect that you are simply a better hobbyist than myself and most others here, and that has a lot to do with your success.

I am also curious why you feel quarantined fish cannot live to old age, or what data there is for that.

Us Humans house many parasites and we are just fine.
But our entire food supply chain is structured to exclude pathogens, don't you agree?
 

pseudorand

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I'm not sold on QT. I've lost lots of fish in QT. All probably my fault, but I think one shoul at least consider both the germ and terrain theories of disease. Germ theory says if you get exposed, you get sick. Terrain theory says germs are wide spread and good luck not getting exposed, but they do no harm to a healthy individual.

It's obvious not quite so black and white. But if you put an otherwise healthy fish in your not-quite-up-to-par QT tank, don't be surprised if she gets sick. Then you treat with copper. Maybe it kills or fights back the disease, but not without side effects. Now the fish, quite stressed from QT, goes into your DT, bringing with it a bunch of microbes that have built up in it's body, weakened from QT, but that you haven't seen signs of yet. These microbes may even already be in your DT. But the huge load brought in by the new fish now infects your existing fish.

I had something like this happen. I didn't notice ick on my foxface until I put him in my DT. Maybe my QT light was too dim to see it. Maybe stress of the move caused an outbreak. But the next day, my royal gramma got it too. But no one else got it. And both the foxface and royal gramma recovered and are doing fine many months later.

I know I've had ick in my DT. But it appears to be gone now. Or at least my fish are healthy enough that it can't cause a problem. This sounds like the terrain theory to me.

Maybe if you have $20k and a decade of time in your tank, and you invest in maintaining a mature QT (or two, one with copper and one real, healthy tank), then it makes sense. But if you can't go whole-hog on QT, I'm convinced it's not good for your new stock and I'm not convinced it's even protective for existing stock in all cases.
 

Scott Ulrich

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I am pro-QT, but I don't think your information regarding these entertainers are true. For one, Fish of Hex is HUGE regarding QT. He even QT his corals.

Yeah, I've watched FOH and he does like a 6 week qt on every item he adds to the tank: inverts, corals, fish... I remember him saying he qts anything that has been in water lol - he's the most extreme qt of any channel I've followed.
 

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