A lot of known people dont QUARANTINE!!!

[kenchilada]

Maybe if you have $20k and a decade of time in your tank, and you invest in maintaining a mature QT (or two, one with copper and one real, healthy tank), then it makes sense. But if you can't go whole-hog on QT, I'm convinced it's not good for your new stock and I'm not convinced it's even protective for existing stock in all cases.

This is wildly exaggerated. You can quarantine cheaply. A $20 20G tank heater and a sponge filter gets you going.

 

[Paul B]

kenchilada, I have no idea why your fish get sick. How could I? Yes, a fishes immunity depends on it's either eating, or being exposed to pathogens all the time. Almost all fish in the sea carry parasites and almost all fish in the sea eat fish so they are eating those pathogens and they are perfectly able to process that in their kidney as that is how fish are built.​

I have linked many times the new scientific evidence of this so I won't do it again. Fish need parasites to stay immune and immune is health.

It is true that many fish come in sick and dead. I like to buy fish right out of the shipping boxes but of course some of those fish will die. We don't know when, or if that fish ever ate since it was captured, what water conditions it was in, how long it was in a box. It's a chance we take to be in the hobby but try to take only the healthiest fish.

Many times I take sick fish if I really want that fish. Sometimes I get them for free. I know my existing fish won't get sick so why not? I have been doing that for decades. You certainly can't put such fish in a quarantined tank but disease is not a concern in an immune tank. I post about them all the time like that cardinal I lost 2 weeks ago as many people feel is a big deal. Newly introduced fish sometimes die in my tank and everyone's tank for the reasons I said.

I feel quarantined fish don't live as long as natural fish because a long quarantined fish in a quarantined tank has no functioning immune system. (for reasons I mentioned) The immune system of a fish is the largest user of calories a fish has and filling with eggs is next. Then growth.

So IMO if a fish doesn't use it's immune system it is not a whole, functioning fish. People who just had chemo are in terrible shape although they can live. But they feel and look terrible.

Such a fish can't be fed normal sea foods like shellfish because they probably have living parasites. Most long quarantined or medicated fish do not spawn (except clownfish which I feel don't count)

How many people here own an old totally quarantined or medicated fish? Old is if the fish can die of old age as that and spawning is the only measure of success. Are those fish spawning?

I don't know but so far I have only heard of one very old tang that the owner said was qurantined but I have no idea.
Who here owns a long quarantined or medicated tank where the fish die of only old age, jumping out or some medical problem that is not a communicable disease?

Old is not ten years as that is not even the life span of a common hermit crab.

I don't know if I am correct about that, but I am looking to learn. I hope to find old quarantined fish but I have been doing this much longer than anyone here and I have yet to find one.

I feel a natural,normal fish with an imune system that prevents the fish from getting anything is the best way to go and so far, has worked out well for me, Lasse and Atoll.

But it is not my purpose to argue. If you feel parasites are bad, eliminate them. I have nothing to prove and am just here for fun as it is a hobby and not very important except to the fish.

 

[Paul B]

But our entire food supply chain is structured to exclude pathogens, don't you agree?

Yes, I agree. Food manufacturers would not stay in business if they sold food with parasites in them.
(but fresh fish often has them)

For the last 75 or 100 years Humans have completely changed their diet. We used to drink out of lakes and streams and injest all sorts of things. We no longer do that. We used to hunt and eat what we killed, sometimes raw with no USDA label on the meat. We used to drink milk out of a cow with no pasteurization.

When was the last time you saw un pasturized milk?
WE never washed our food or hands. We used to be basicaly filthy and yet we survived.

We survived because our bodies had great immunity that allowed our immune system to handle those things. We no longer can. Old meat will sicken us as will dirty or parasite laden water.

In Viet Nam I had to take antimalaria pills daily because as a kid from New York, I had no immunity.

The Vietnamese people lived just fine with no pills because they grew up there and, if they were eating enough healthy food, they were fine.

If we were always eating pathogens from our area we will be immune. Every time I went to Mexico, I got very sick. I didn't see sick Mexicans as they could drink that water as they are immune to those parasites.

We can also quarantine ourselves on an Island someplace if thats what we want to do. But I would rather meet people.

But remember, we are also not fish who have a completely different but better for them immune system.

 

[kenchilada]

But it is not my purpose to argue. If you feel parasites are bad, eliminate them. I have nothing to prove and am just here for fun as it is a hobby and not very important except to the fish.

Yes I do not intend to argue either and apologize if I’ve ruffled your feathers. I was just attempting to learn. I’ll show myself out.

 

[NashobaTek]

When was the last time you saw un pasturized milk?

Yesterday, but I have my own dairy cow and goats. Lol

The best butter is made from cream shaken in a jar. Just like my grandma used to have us kids do to stay out of her hair.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello guys I am so so so confused. Should i quarantine or not? A lot of “famous” people on youtube like reef dork, inappropriate reefer, and fish of hex dont quarantine their fish and they have proof of how successful their reef tanks are.

Based on my experience I am an advocate of 1-4 months of quarantining your fish, because i have personally lost thousands and thousands of dollars after not quarantining before on my Fowlr and my nano reef years back.

Now once again I am seeing a lot of people not quarantining fish. I just started my new aquarium and I heard before that I should quarantine before putting it on my DT but what if there are 0 live stocks in there other than a quarantined sps and CUC.

I quarantine everything. My quarantine process is outlined in the sticky section in the fish disease forum. A comprehensive quarantine process is just one part of success - you also need to know how to avoid problem species, and have a good source of quality fish.
Buying a skinny bicolor angel from a chain pet store and adding it straight to your DT is going to have a very poor chance of success....but an all to common scenario.

Jay

 

[vtecintegra]

This topic reminds me of my mom and seatbelts. No matter what stats or logic you use, she won't wear a seatbelt. Swears in a bad accident she will be trapped in the car and burn to death, and would be much better off being thrown from the vehicle. Over 70 years old and there is still no chance of changing her mind.

 

[Squidward]

Never QT'd a fish yet....and have never needed a QT tank.

You run a tank - with skimmers, media, UV sterilizer and all sorts of stuff....to keep the tank and water "clean". Full of live rock, bacterial life and fishy friends.

Yet - we setup a QT, with a hang out filter - piece of ABS pipe and expect a sick fish.....to get better? #smh

I've noticed, people tend to freak out - misdiagnosis Ich. Fish gets a piece of sand or crud stuck too it.....so you spend 30 mins, chasing it down - toss it in a tank 1/4 or less, the tank it came from and start treating it? If that fish wasn't sick before....its sure as hell probably gonna be susceptible now.

Stressville - population: 1

I've had this debate so many times....people forget, given the right tools - fish CAN fight off parasites. Absolutely...Velvet and some of the more severe stuff - warrants more action, but the question then should be asked - how did it happen in the first place? Either....you failed to keep a proper environment or you failed to buy a healthy fish. Fish - don't just "get sick", like people - theres a reason.

Reefers keep the water - fish keep themselves. Run a healthy tank, practice good husbandry, feed fish good, quality food - and, you'd be blown away.....how easy things can be.

....if you feel the NEED to QT a new fish (because you are concerned about health) - maybe you should reassess why you're buying it in the first place. I dont buy from places, that I'm 100% confident in their tanks. I dont think I'm just lucky, Ive never had an ill fish - I think I just make better choices.

#justmy2cents

The main objective of Qurantine is to not allow parasites to enter your display. That way there will be no need to get paranoid and tear down your tank to catch your sick fish. Having an ich free tank is light years better than ich management and drop it in and hoping for the best/being lucky. And you do not need to use copper. There's a great method I use called TTM.

 

[WVNed]

The width of this chasm astounds me.
I got 200 feeder shrimp today and they went in my fuge along with the water they came in.
A couple of days ago I got my third lion and 2 urchins. They went in the tank with the water they came in.
I now have a 400 gallon system that is full. How many times do you think I did that?
Disease has no part in my planning or execution of my system. It never has. I have never lost a tank of fish to disease.
I have had 2 that died of diseases I couldn't Identify. But they got them after being in the tank for months and didnt affect any others.

I have lost lots of fish to the relatively expensive but poor quality equipment we have to deal with. Power outages have done their share of damage too until I got a generator.
The skinny bicolor angel from Petco. I did that and he did great until an equipment failure during the night tripped a breaker during the night. I lost him and all my blue reef chromis. They looked like little jewels laying on the sand. I lost my yellow tang and several green chromis during a 5 day power outage this winter so we are getting a whole house generator. I assure you a whole house generator costs more than a QT setup. If I saw any benefit to it at all I would do it.

But I dont. If you feel QT is the magic bullet you need then use it. I will put my time into making sure the equipment is working, keeping the live food alive and making sure the frozen never runs out.

 

[DarthChaos]

The main objective of Qurantine is to not allow parasites to enter your display. That way there will be no need to get paranoid and tear down your tank to catch your sick fish. Having an ich free tank is light years better than ich management and drop it in and hoping for the best/being lucky. And you do not need to use copper. There's a great method I use called TTM.

Makes sense.....but how do you know?

I seen a fellow today...post on a FB group - 30 day copper, then this, then that..........ummmm, why?

Are the fish sick? If not....why the heck are you doing all that, just incase?

That's like cruising around in a wheelchair, because....you "might" break your legs and not be able to walk. It isnt like you put those fish in your DT and now they can't catch Ich

If you know the fish are sick and need to QT - then why the heck did you buy the fish? Wouldn't you rather buy healthy fish?

I dont know....people do strange things - I try not to understand what goes through people's minds

Again.....had several tanks - never had anything, that I know of.......I just focus on keeping my tank and environment as healthy and strong for my fish. All you can really do.

FYI - in Canada.....cooper is illegal (because of misuse) - so....we have learned to treat illness differently.

 

[Squidward]

Makes sense.....but how do you know?

I seen a fellow today...post on a FB group - 30 day copper, then this, then that..........ummmm, why?

Are the fish sick? If not....why the heck are you doing all that, just incase?

That's like cruising around in a wheelchair, because....you "might" break your legs and not be able to walk. It isnt like you put those fish in your DT and now they can't catch Ich

If you know the fish are sick and need to QT - then why the heck did you buy the fish? Wouldn't you rather buy healthy fish?

I dont know....people do strange things - I try not to understand what goes through people's minds

Again.....had several tanks - never had anything, that I know of.......I just focus on keeping my tank and environment as healthy and strong for my fish. All you can really do.

FYI - in Canada.....cooper is illegal (because of misuse) - so....we have learned to treat illness differently.

Because the human eye cannot see all of the ich. You can't trust that a fish isn't carrying ich or other parasites just because it looks healthy. Why take a risk of thinking the fish is healthy just to later see ich on the fish in your display? That's a disaster as ich is now in your display tank and the only way of getting rid of ich is to go fallow for 76 days. Why not eradicate the threat altogether? That way your other fish won't get infected. No copper in canada means you can easily do TTM.

 

[Shooter6]

If you have lost 1000s of dollars by not QT before then I think you know the answer. It’s not like the You tuber is going to pay you back when their method fails

I don’t watch YouTube but it’s not like you are buying the fish from the same exact source as theirs. It’s also likely they have mature tanks which helps tons. Another thing to watch is their stock and tank volumes. I didn’t QT for 10 years and it was fairly easy to keep things like wrasse, clowns, zebra tangs, bristletooth, dwarf angels, and such.

"In Stock – Among The Reef" https://amongthereef.com/collections/in-stock
Keeping multiple Zebra tangs without qt? Your definitely a big table gambler!

 

[DarthChaos]

The main objective of Qurantine is to not allow parasites to enter your display. That way there will be no need to get paranoid and tear down your tank to catch your sick fish. Having an ich free tank is light years better than ich management and drop it in and hoping for the best/being lucky. And you do not need to use copper. There's a great method I use called TTM.

Makes sense.....but how do you know?

I seen a fellow today...post on a FB group - 30 day copper, then this, then that..........ummmm, why?

Are the fish sick? If not....why the heck are you doing all that, just incase?

That's like cruising around in a wheelchair, because....you "might" break your legs and not be able to walk. It isnt like you put those fish in your DT and now they can't catch Ich

If you know the fish are sick and need to QT - then why the heck did you buy the fish? Wouldn't you rather buy healthy fish?

I dont know....people do strange things - I try not to understand what goes through people's minds

Again.....had several tanks - never had anything, that I know of.......I just focus on keeping my tank and environment as healthy and strong for my fish. All you c

Because the human eye cannot see all of the ich. You can't trust that a fish isn't carrying ich or other parasites just because it looks healthy. Why take a risk of thinking the fish is healthy just to later see ich on the fish in your display? That's a disaster as ich is now in your display tank and the only way of getting rid of ich is to go fallow for 76 days. Why not eradicate the threat altogether? That way your other fish won't get infected. No copper in canada means you can easily do TTM.

Ya man.....I dont know.

As I said....I run a LOT of tech on my DT - way I see it, if you're not running that same stuff on a QT - then, is it really better? I feel a sick fish....is gonna stand a much better chance in a STRONG and HEALTHY environment - than a sterile one.

I was in the military...for almost a decade. Can tell you, I'd much rather wear body armor, good gear and have a weapon - than run naked, with a stick in my hand....on a battlefield.

As I said.....Ive had big tanks - small tanks.....I dont buy from BIG retail (well....often! Lol). I try and buy healthy fish.

I make my own food, loaded with natural ingredients - vitamins. I keep my equipment clean and working. Replace things (like UV bulbs), when they need replacing.

I can 100% honestly tell you.....Ive never had Ich - never had Velvet - never had a "sick" fish. Maybe it's luck.....(which, ive played the lottery enough and NOT won - to not really believe in) or maybe its just ensuring I give my fish....every tool possible, to fight off anything, that may come their way.

Regardless - I do have a QT....that sits in the closet, collecting dust.

It's a debate I've seen a lot....and there's some who have lost whole tanks - and others who've literally added Ich covered fish, to their DT and had them recover and thrive.

 

[Squidward]

Makes sense.....but how do you know?

I seen a fellow today...post on a FB group - 30 day copper, then this, then that..........ummmm, why?

Are the fish sick? If not....why the heck are you doing all that, just incase?

That's like cruising around in a wheelchair, because....you "might" break your legs and not be able to walk. It isnt like you put those fish in your DT and now they can't catch Ich

If you know the fish are sick and need to QT - then why the heck did you buy the fish? Wouldn't you rather buy healthy fish?

I dont know....people do strange things - I try not to understand what goes through people's minds

Again.....had several tanks - never had anything, that I know of.......I just focus on keeping my tank and environment as healthy and strong for my fish. All you c

Ya man.....I dont know.

As I said....I run a LOT of tech on my DT - way I see it, if you're not running that same stuff on a QT - then, is it really better? I feel a sick fish....is gonna stand a much better chance in a STRONG and HEALTHY environment - than a sterile one.

I was in the military...for almost a decade. Can tell you, I'd much rather wear body armor, good gear and have a weapon - than run naked, with a stick in my hand....on a battlefield.

As I said.....Ive had big tanks - small tanks.....I dont buy from BIG retail (well....often! Lol). I try and buy healthy fish.

I make my own food, loaded with natural ingredients - vitamins. I keep my equipment clean and working. Replace things (like UV bulbs), when they need replacing.

I can 100% honestly tell you.....Ive never had Ich - never had Velvet - never had a "sick" fish. Maybe it's luck.....(which, ive played the lottery enough and NOT won - to not really believe in) or maybe its just ensuring I give my fish....every tool possible, to fight off anything, that may come their way.

Regardless - I do have a QT....that sits in the closet, collecting dust.

It's a debate I've seen a lot....and there's some who have lost whole tanks - and others who've literally added Ich covered fish, to their DT and had them recover and thrive.

My cheap TTM qurantine is just two 10g tanks with a heater, pvc, and small tunze powerhead for water movement. It takes 12 days. I'll do 2 treatments of prazipro too if needed for fish like Angels. I know cause I used to never qurantine and got my display wiped out...losing hundreds in fish. Now I qurantine and have had an ich free tank since 2019. Never have to worry about stress suddenly causing an ich outbreak or seeing fish scrape themselves etc. It's a world of a difference and worry free feeling. And no UV needed.

 

[atoll]

To QT or not to QT that is the question that I answered myself over 30 years ago and the decision was not to. People will tell you there are risks if you don't QT, we there are risks if you do. How many fish die in QT due to added stress or poisoning we will never know.

People will tell you you are playing Russian roulette not QTing I would say you are by QTing. Those of us who have been successfully not QTing for many years have method in our madness but it's the easiest thing in the world to do and achieve.

I won't go into the hows and what fors here you can find lots of info already on here if not from myself then the likes of @Paul B. However, simply put we are disciples of mother nature as much as is reasonably possible she has all the answers.

 

[Ardeus]

I have read multiple times the explanations of how not quarentining works for you and Paul and I still don't get the logic behind it.

I'm always left with the strong suspicion that it's much more the tank "immune system" and not so much the fish's immune system that is responsible for the well being of your fish.

Everything has predators and I suspect your tanks harbour an established population of predators of fish parasites.

Hearing the accounts of your successes is very tempting, but I'm not a gambling man.

Odds are luck has a part in this and I suspect you both were lucky enough to have never encountered the big killers.

 

[atoll]

I have read multiple times the explanations of how not quarentining works for you and Paul and I still don't get the logic behind it.

I'm always left with the strong suspicion that it's much more the tank "immune system" and not so much the fish's immune system that is responsible for the well being of your fish.

Everything has predators and I suspect your tanks harbour an established population of predators of fish parasites.

Hearing the accounts of your successes is very tempting, but I'm not a gambling man.

Odds are luck has a part in this and I suspect you both were lucky enough to have never encountered the big killers.

I doubt very much myself and Paul are gambling with our tanks and not just the 2 of us of course there are many that practice similar. I have friends here in the UK that do similar with similar results. My tank as such isn't immune IMO as I have introduced fish with itch only for it to disappear with 36 hours with no other fish infected. We could theorize and maybe one day we will know the answer 100% for sure but I think implying it's our tanks that are immune is a bit to simplistic for me. My guess is there are a whole bunch of things contributing to successful disease resistant fish going on, from the environment to foods and feeding.

 

[Ardeus]

That's precisely the kind of reports that make me think it's the tank and not the fish.

The parasites drop and aren't able to continue their life cycle at least in visible amounts.

 

[Paul B]

Everything has predators and I suspect your tanks harbour an established population of predators of fish parasites.

I think so too and I am counting on them and think that is why I have a fifty year old, healthy, spawning population of fish. No "home" quarantined tank has that distinction and I have said my theories for it.

I also didn't come up with this last week or the last 10 years as this has been a long lifetime of experimenting for me. My tank, to me is not suppose to be a thing of beauty. It is not even in my living space. It's in my workshop so I can enjoy it or experiment.

I started this tank when there were no salt water tanks in homes and after countless ich parasites and hundreds of hours underwater swimming with the fish I gradually learned how to keep fish a natural. normal way with no problems at all.

If your fish are getting sick, you are doing something wrong. I don't know what, but something.
I keep ,my fish and feed my fish and house my fish as they are in the sea and in the sea they live and eat parasites. Thats just what they do and what they were designed to do.

I would never let my fish get sick and if I was killing fish, I would find a different hobby. Maybe bungee jumping.

Now I am going to make some breakfast of poached parasites.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The main objective of Qurantine is to not allow parasites to enter your display. That way there will be no need to get paranoid and tear down your tank to catch your sick fish. Having an ich free tank is light years better than ich management and drop it in and hoping for the best/being lucky. And you do not need to use copper. There's a great method I use called TTM.

Remember though that TTM only controls ich. Modified TTM can control velvet, but neither method controls flukes. You need to run modified TTM and a fluke treatment.
Jay