A lot of led fixture question

[A. grandis]

Yes. I will take my one Mitras 6300 to a 250MH Radium MH any day. IMO it way out performs the 250MH In every way. I'm an old school MH guy BTW. When I ran 250 MH's with actinics, I quickly went away from 250 MH's because it wasn't giving me the PAR I needed for certain SPS. So I went to 400W MH's with VHO actinics. It was the bomb btw.

Today I run Mitras 6300's, first generation 6100's upgraded pucks. Its basically like a 325MH to 350MH if there was such a thing for comparison with actinics. So the one fixture is better than a 250MH with actinics. The LED covers both fixtures in one and colors up corals better than a 250MH. Oh and it uses less power and can cover more spectrum than a halide, and I don't have to change bulbs. Been running fixtures of over 6 years now. No issues.

Its not as power full as a 400 MH that is why I'm running 4. The new 7206 fixtures will actually let you divert power from led's that you are not using to overdrive the other corals. I bet its pretty close to 400wMH if dialed in correctly on the right spectrum. I don't know, but from the success I'm having....I would have to say YEP!

I have ran MH's for years, T12's, T5, Power compacts, and T8's. So I have been there and done that.

I"m not telling you that this light is better than that light, but I know what I enjoy and its my Mitras! Hands down. I have over 40 colonies of SPS in my aquarium and they are thriving with no issues.

Thanks for your response! I believe you must be enjoying your LEDs and what it doing for your tank.
But the qualities and properties of both light systems aren't the same. What halides can offer using the right reflectors your LEDs wouldn't, right?
The spectrum and UV offered by a MH system can't be compared to any available LED in the market today. I hope you agree with that fact.
LED companies are trying to simulate T5 distribution for years, but they still lack in that respect.
I'm not saying that you can't grow your corals well with the LEDs you've got. I'm just trying to bring here the differences as facts.
Not really comparing tastes anymore.
I'm also trying to see the subject with a wider vision now...
Grandis.

 

[jda]

There is too much nuance to just say that this-or-that can-or-cannot do anything. I can assure you that a Hydra 26 cannot grow the acropora colonies that I have unless I probably used 4 over each 2x2 area, or maybe more. Even then, the color would change - better or worse is in the eye of the beholder, but it would not be the same. The colonies are large and they need the light over the whole area, and not just right under the pucks. Now, I do not have ny MBP&S in my tank, nor any slimers or stags, all of which are SPS and could do quite well with less light. A wide-panel type of LED could do better, but not single Hydra 26s. Let's also do not forget that there is more to any SPS than just growth... color, pattern, etc. are also very important and there are a lot of nuance to each of these too...

I don't know how hot it gets in Georgia, but it is probably pretty relentless for most of the year - I was only to Athens once when Mizzou joined the SEC and we came for a football game. When I was in Missouri, we had two months usually at, or over 100 degrees, with 90%+ humidity, and fans kept my tanks cool with the home AC on - I did have chillers just in case, but the rarely ran once I started to just turn the fans on with the lights instead of a temp controller. However, we did get a break the rest of the year. I think that most heat issues can be solved with mostly fans and are overblown to make a point one way, or another, but the heat is very much real and needs to be dealt with. I also have larger tanks which are harder to move the temp - 240G. My worst days now are maybe 95 degrees, but the humidity is 15-20% on those days and it gets into the high 50s at night and the tank heaters need to turn on again... hardly difficulty to manage compared to other areas of the world.

For mixed tanks, my favorite light is 15oW HQI... it is hard to have heat issues with these.

 

[mtraylor]

I was never comparing The Hydras with the MH yad yada. I was replying to your statment that the Hydras can't grow SPS, they most certianly can.

Oh ok. Well that must have been someone else's post. I never said Hydra 26's would not grow sps. I actually said that the quote of 6 on a 72" aquarium was probably accurate to grow sps if that is what the original post was about. Is that what you are referring too? or was it someone else's post?

 

[Daltrey]

Less watts equal less heat no matter what the source.

 

[A. grandis]

There are no heat issues with 250W MH's. You only run into heat issues with 400 Watt MH's. Ran them both. Only need a chiller with 400W MH's. Those suckers are hot.

I actually believe that the presence of the emitted TIR/IF/UV by halides with the use of a chiller is beneficial to the corals.
That is just my belief and I can't prove that scientifically, yet.
Grandis.

 

[mtraylor]

Thanks for your response! I believe you must be enjoying your LEDs and what it doing for your tank.
But the qualities and properties of both light systems aren't the same. What halides can offer using the right reflectors your LEDs wouldn't, right?
The spectrum and UV offered by a MH system can't be compared to any available LED in the market today. I hope you agree with that fact.
LED companies are trying to simulate T5 distribution for years, but they still lack in that respect.
I'm not saying that you can't grow your corals well with the LEDs you've got. I'm just trying to bring here the differences as facts.
Not really comparing tastes anymore.
I'm also trying to see the subject with a wider vision now...
Grandis.

Yes I'm enjoying my LED's. Thanks. I enjoyed my MH/Super VHo actinics as well. I"m not sure what you mean by quality...but the quality of my MH system I had was nice, but not as nice as my LED setup. I had PFO Pendant for my MH's. Halide lighting is different that LED's. The UV provided by a single 400MH, will not give you that pop that that LED"s give you as well. That is why some people add uv to their MH setup with T12 or t5 or led. All the lighting is different, I agree. I'm just simply gave a couple LED pendants you can replace a 250MH with that will give you more than the 250MH alone can provide. That is it. Yes all the different types of lighting look different. there is no argument there.

 

[mtraylor]

I actually believe that the presence of the emitted TIR/IF/UV by halides with the use of a chiller is beneficial to the corals.
That is just my belief and I can't prove that scientifically, yet.
Grandis.

What ever works for you is the right formula. Reef on.

 

[NS Mike D]

Thanks for your response! I believe you must be enjoying your LEDs and what it doing for your tank.
But the qualities and properties of both light systems aren't the same. What halides can offer using the right reflectors your LEDs wouldn't, right?
The spectrum and UV offered by a MH system can't be compared to any available LED in the market today. I hope you agree with that fact.
LED companies are trying to simulate T5 distribution for years, but they still lack in that respect.
I'm not saying that you can't grow your corals well with the LEDs you've got. I'm just trying to bring here the differences as facts.
Not really comparing tastes anymore.
I'm also trying to see the subject with a wider vision now...
Grandis.

Are we trying to mimic natural sunlight or rather carving out the spectrums to manipulate the coral colors?

 

[A. grandis]

I had halides and no chiller for years here in Honolulu with MHs. Summer time was hard to keep it under 83°F, but never had much problems besides a bit more of algae growth! Fans were keeping it ok for those very hot days, then it would get back to normal.
I've got no fans, but a chiller today, and it runs only late afternoon. Not too bad!
Next time I have a halide system I'll have fans and chiller. I bet it will run only afternoon time and specially summer time cause I'll set it at 78-79°F.
Grandis.

 

[Mark Gray]

There are no heat issues with 250W MH's. You only run into heat issues with 400 Watt MH's. Ran them both. Only need a chiller with 400W MH's. Those suckers are hot.

Depends on where you live

 

[A. grandis]

Are we trying to mimic natural sunlight or rather carving out the spectrums to manipulate the coral colors?

Both! We should use our artificial lights to offer the very best we can to the organisms we keep. I look forward to have them growing healthy and possibly reproducing like in the ocean.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

Yes I'm enjoying my LED's. Thanks. I enjoyed my MH/Super VHo actinics as well. I"m not sure what you mean by quality...but the quality of my MH system I had was nice, but not as nice as my LED setup. I had PFO Pendant for my MH's. Halide lighting is different that LED's. The UV provided by a single 400MH, will not give you that pop that that LED"s give you as well. That is why some people add uv to their MH setup with T12 or t5 or led. All the lighting is different, I agree. I'm just simply gave a couple LED pendants you can replace a 250MH with that will give you more than the 250MH alone can provide. That is it. Yes all the different types of lighting look different. there is no argument there.

Edit: *By quality I meant the properties of that particular type of light emitted by different sources.
The quality of the material of a fixture doesn't have anything to do with the properties of the light emitted by different lamps.*

I think there is a misunderstand of your part in regards to the UV.
The MHs actually gives more UV than any other light source.
The so called "pop" from your LEDs are just reflection from blue diodes, nothing to do with UV. Those aren't pigments but reflection. If you remove the blue/violet, no more "pop"!
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

There is too much nuance to just say that this-or-that can-or-cannot do anything. I can assure you that a Hydra 26 cannot grow the acropora colonies that I have unless I probably used 4 over each 2x2 area, or maybe more. Even then, the color would change - better or worse is in the eye of the beholder, but it would not be the same. The colonies are large and they need the light over the whole area, and not just right under the pucks. Now, I do not have ny MBP&S in my tank, nor any slimers or stags, all of which are SPS and could do quite well with less light. A wide-panel type of LED could do better, but not single Hydra 26s. Let's also do not forget that there is more to any SPS than just growth... color, pattern, etc. are also very important and there are a lot of nuance to each of these too...

I don't know how hot it gets in Georgia, but it is probably pretty relentless for most of the year - I was only to Athens once when Mizzou joined the SEC and we came for a football game. When I was in Missouri, we had two months usually at, or over 100 degrees, with 90%+ humidity, and fans kept my tanks cool with the home AC on - I did have chillers just in case, but the rarely ran once I started to just turn the fans on with the lights instead of a temp controller. However, we did get a break the rest of the year. I think that most heat issues can be solved with mostly fans and are overblown to make a point one way, or another, but the heat is very much real and needs to be dealt with. I also have larger tanks which are harder to move the temp - 240G. My worst days now are maybe 95 degrees, but the humidity is 15-20% on those days and it gets into the high 50s at night and the tank heaters need to turn on again... hardly difficulty to manage compared to other areas of the world.

For mixed tanks, my favorite light is 15oW HQI... it is hard to have heat issues with these.

Thanks for the answer to my question on post # 22, jda.
Grandis.

 

[A. grandis]

What ever works for you is the right formula. Reef on.

You too! Thanks.
Grandis.

 

[Roy 9121]

Haha, That doesn’t change the fact that Ford is still the best selling truck.

http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2018/01/best-selling-pickup-trucks-december-2017.html

Actually, it does.

 

[Daltrey]

Actually, it does.

Sure, ha!


http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/04/autos/ford-f-150-truck-40-years/index.html

 

[me & my baby]

Well I don't know the background of what you are talking about, but I will chime in on what you have presented to see if I can help. If you or whomever decided that they wanted a lighting system for say sps (I only say sps because of the recommendation) and the light of choice was Hydra 26's. Then that was a poor decision for the application. SPS require more PAR then most corals. Since the selected light in the title is only a 90watt light, it will not emit enough PAR for SPS. This is not getting into the optics and spread of light either .....etc. etc. Thus you will have to have more to make up for the poor choice, even though the tank is not very deep. So the recommendation is right on point with the light choice in my best guess. You got a pretty accurate recommendation. It would be like choosing 100W MH's if you could get such a thing. You would need more than 3 for SPS.

Now say you picked up more adequate lights for the chore (sps theme) say 3 Radion G4's or 3 Mitras 7206's then you would not have an issue growing anything and they will be LED fixtures that you can compare apples to apples to say a 250MH with supplements. If you are an early reefer, then PAR meter is a good thing to compare lights with. Season Reefers may only use their corals to tell them what PAR is needed and if they need more light or an adjustment. So if you want 3 pendants then get one of the of recommendations I have posted above, or you can also get 3 kessels to hang light pendants as well. I will let the kessel users chime in there.

I hope this helps and its not intended to bash any light manufacturer or anything. Just trying to help you understand LED's. Now if I"m off base with what you were needed lights for, then that's another story. LOL.

Say you just want lights for say fish only then maybe 3 hydra 26's is all you need.

I have to disagree with you , I own 3 hydra 26hd now and I have checked them with my par meter . At the bot of my current tank I get around 120 mid tank 280 and top of rock 650 . My current tank is 24” deep and the light are 12” of the top of the water , so you saying there a poor choice is not accurate. I have had a set of the G3pros with them first came out and I didn’t like them at all went back to halides . I think the hydra is a better light and very happy with my choice.

 

[me & my baby]

Here's my 2 cents I really like LEDs I ran MH VHO T12 T5 and now LEDS. They grow coral very well, you can adjust them to your viewing pleasure. They save me quite a bit, I live in Georgia and it's hot in the summer LEDs run cool, so my AC dosent have to work so hard. I the winter it would not matter. But one thing about LEDS they are not plug and play like MH or T5s

Oh I know about heat I am in middle Ga and the summer get really hot here

 

[NS Mike D]

I have to disagree with you , I own 3 hydra 26hd now and I have checked them with my par meter . At the bot of my current tank I get around 120 mid tank 280 and top of rock 650 . My current tank is 24” deep and the light are 12” of the top of the water , so you saying there a poor choice is not accurate. I have had a set of the G3pros with them first came out and I didn’t like them at all went back to halides . I think the hydra is a better light and very happy with my choice.

a subtle but not so insignificant recent change in LEDS is the backing off the white LEDS and creating white using RGB. That won't show up in PAR readings and not o much to your eye, but there is no real white LED, they are blue that are treated to shine white. (there is a very interesting thread about no white lights and member Lasse posted some cool information how he has no white leds in this fixture). This shift has improved the blended spectrum more akin to the T5 spectrum. Since LEDs can produce way more PAR than our tanks need, we are seeing the shift to sacrifice some of that PAR to more evenly distribute the light.

I'm in the process of a cheap interim step to improve my cheap leds that will let me rely less of the white leds, while i continue to research my more permanent lighting - and the more I know about this subject, it's hard not to conclude that T5s aren't the better answer (including hybrids). not to say that leds aren't successfully growing and coloring corals and of course their designs a far more appealing as room decor.

 

[mtraylor]

Edit: *By quality I meant the properties of that particular type of light emitted by different sources.
The quality of the material of a fixture doesn't have anything to do with the properties of the light emitted by different lamps.*

I think there is a misunderstand of your part in regards to the UV.
The MHs actually gives more UV than any other light source.
The so called "pop" from your LEDs are just reflection from blue diodes, nothing to do with UV. Those aren't pigments but reflection. If you remove the blue/violet, no more "pop"!
Grandis.

The quality of the materials in a fixtures does have everything in the properties of the light emitted in each fixture when it comes to lighting. Especially in LED's. For LED's, the quality heavily depends on which binning the led comes from. The binning determines the voltage, how they chromatically appear, tolerance of spectrum, etc. etc. etc. The tighter the binning, the more the LED Cost. YOu get what you pay for. Do some googling on it, you will find some good reads and get some good knowledge in that category. It can help you determine how well your LED fixture is made and how close they are to a spectrum that you want. Best thing to do in determining an LED fixture. You will have to call manufactorers to get info though. Just FYI. In MH's the quality of the material also is in place. What kind of reflector are you using, bulb, and ballasts. Any change in the quality of product you buy will yield different results. Reflectors alone are huge. You cant compare a lumen bright reflector to the reflector I had in my PFO fixture. They are not on the same plane or level. The Lumen Bright was way better than what I had.

Anyway moving forward. I have no misunderstanding of how UV and blue lights work in regards to corals. I believe you have been misinformed with what you are saying, so let me share with you.
UV is a spectrum of light. Nothing more, nothing less. Just narrowing down to what we are talking about we have the following
UV-C which is between 200-280nm
UV-B which is between 280-315nm
UV-A which is between 315-400nm.
Then we move to violet and blue visible Light. 400- 500

Here is the spectral graph of MH 250W Radium bulb with electronic ballast.

Now you can see how much uv is in the spectrum. MH's do not offer more UV than any other lighting source. Now lets forget about LED's for a second. When I had MH's I used the super VHO actinic bulb for more "pop" in the coral. Here is its graph. You can clearly see its providing More UV. That is why we add supplement to the MH Radium Bulb. MOre UV. You can do it with SVHO, T5, or LED. Doesn't matter. You need It for the pop.

So what is POP. Let me go over that.
"POP".
Our corals are photosynthetic. The corals change their pigment in order to be more efficient in the photosynthetic process. The change of pigment from blue and UV light give off more fluorescents to the human eye under such lighting giving you the "POP". There is no magic or reflection coming from the coral. Its the pigment of the coral.


If you take a coral that's been under good UV and blue lighting it will have that "POP", under that lighting due to the pigment change to photosynthesize that lighting more efficient. If you put that coral under say a 10k light in another aquarium in buddies tank. The pigment of the coral has not changed, but you will not be able to see the "POP", with the human eye any more due to the loss of spectrum provided light. The corals hasn't changed pigment at this time, but you don't have the proper lighting to see it. Now if you leave the coral in the tank under 10k for several months the coral pigment will change over time to better suite 10k lighting. LEss blue and UV. The coral will no longer have that "POP".

You can give that same coral back to the aquarium that has the good uv and blue lighting and it will not have "POP" anymore. Why? Because the pigment changed in the other aquarium to suite 10k lighting. You will now have to wait say weeks or months later until the pigment changes again for you to get that "POP". Some of us in the old days called that "Coloring up a Coral" for friends. Used to do it all the time for people.

Now my LED's provide the blue and the UV all in one fixture. I hope this helps explain.