A misunderstanding within stores based around pets not just fish.

[Joeganja]

I work at one of those types of stores (won't say which one) and being on places like Reef2Reef I'm always reading coming across negative and mixed reviews about customers experience with fish and or how the employees were able to help someone out correctly. I feel there should be a briefing on it's not so much these store's fault in the matter where fish may have ich in the store, or other problems occurring. Over the course of the 4-5 months I've been working there I've noticed a trend of things happen. We get push orders on fish that are juveniles such as yellow tangs and hippo tangs and they come so small and skinny that they have such a poor survival rate in our tanks just because of stress, incoming and outgoing fish, and one of the largest problems I've noticed is the distributor mag be sending these fish so thin; they don't look well fed and it seems to be not only fair to the fish, but to the customer who may want one, maybe an inexperienced hobbyist who doesn't understand the level of difficulty which results in a bad rep. Where I work we feed frozen and we add garlic to the food while it is being thawed to boost the immune system of the fish, increase appetite, and try to help fight of any diseases or parasites such as the commonly known ich. I'm noticing a majority of customers are typically newbies, ranging from a couple of months to a couple of years and want to make that jump right into the larger and or more delicate fish that typically require an established aquarium. I can see why it's seen as not having the best reputation for being a first choice in choosing saltwater fish, coral, etc. There's multiple factors playing in and those are overseen. One like I stated being the distributors providing fish that should not be sold due to health conditions, another being not fulfilling the recommended diet of ex. a female Lyretail Anthias where multiple feedings per day result in a better health. But the one factor that most don't realize is that these fish are supposed to be sold, they are housed with other fish come and go and the big picture isn't being seen. It's temporary housing for these animals and us aquarium keepers view it as keeping a tank at home. It's much more sophisticated than that and that's where the line is drawn.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Good Points.
My point to the large franchises is, technology and protocols exist to reduce the appearance of disease and parasites. Quit relying on mass sales and cutting costs on payroll, training and equipment to pump your stock values and maybe look at what your selling. these aren't socks or hamburgers. Puppy mills are Illegal, maybe we should consider this as we take animals from the wild and sell them for $16. I would gladly pay $19 if the staff can work longer and clean the tank.
Most folks I know at pet stores Love to work with the animals they sell and would not mind being able to care for them.

 

[Joeganja]

Good Points.
My point to the large franchises is, technology and protocols exist to reduce the appearance of disease and parasites. Quit relying on mass sales and cutting costs on payroll, training and equipment to pump your stock values and maybe look at what your selling. these aren't socks or hamburgers. Puppy mills are Illegal, maybe we should consider this as we take animals from the wild and sell them for $16. I would gladly pay $19 if the staff can work longer and clean the tank.
Most folks I know at pet stores Love to work with the animals they sell and would not mind being able to care for them.

Strong statement but there's more to it than that. I love my job as it's a job I've wanted for a while and finally got into it just because I love educating others and giving the best information I have so they can succeed. But again what works for some may not work for others. With that large franchises or even private owned pet stores not focused on aquatic life don't really understand the whole picture when it comes to receiving an animal from distributor, acclimating that animal correctly, housing it with other animals that will get along with, providing the correct diets, keeping a stable water parameter, maintaining good water chemistry and doing water changes, on top of that fish that are incoming every where and other fish being sold daily. It's a whole bunch of things that i wish hobbyists and customers would understand before becoming disappointed and angry at these places because it's not so much their faults as it is that they may not have the right information to work with.

 

[ksc]

Of course it's their fault. If they are getting unhealthy livestock then they need to change their source. If they can't find/sell healthy fish then maybe they should stop selling them. It's all about the money, not the health of the livestock. There aren't too many pet stores selling dogs anymore because educated consumers are well aware of the unhealthy animals being sold, and the refusal of experienced breeders selling to these livestock mills...

 

[jeffrey holloway]

I approach these stores with a I'm gonna have to rehab the the fish no matter what attitude. I pick the best looking one take him home and the 2-3 months QT starts. Good water, Good food, Prazipro, meteroplex, and then cupermine in that order weather they need or not. I have found some great deals on fish and inverts that would cost three times more online or at my LFS, which both have similar problems. I've only been at this about 10 months but quickly learned that no matter who u buy from there are responsibilities u must be willing to accept and execute. No living thing will ever be perfect. Happy reef keeping.

 

[Joeganja]

Of course it's their fault. If they are getting unhealthy livestock then they need to change their source. If they can't find/sell healthy fish then maybe they should stop selling them. It's all about the money, not the health of the livestock. There aren't too many pet stores selling dogs anymore because educated consumers are well aware of the unhealthy animals being sold, and the refusal of experienced breeders selling to these livestock mills...

The reason that most pet stores don't sell dogs is due to the fact that there are so many dogs that are being bred and not wanted. Most pet stores will have adoption days where whoever they have in the area bring the animals for adoption because it's better for those animals to have a chance of getting adopted rather than somebody going to the pet shelter they will bring them to pet stores for conscience and it's usually every weekend for a lot of places.

 

[ksc]

You're young. Many years ago there were far more dogs being bred by pet owners. Spaying/neutering was very uncommon and there were no leash laws. Mongrels were easy to find from pet owners and most pet stores sold unhealthy purebreds pumped out by puppy mills. Things have changed for the better today but the fish industry is "behind the times". The solution is to simply not support these "fish mills" that pump out unhealthy fish.

Although these adoption days are a welcome change, these corporations aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They want you to adopt a dog so you will buy all the garbage food and other low end supplies/services they hawk. If you support them then you are part of the problem...

 

[Joeganja]

You're young. Many years ago there were far more dogs being bred by pet owners. Spaying/neutering was very uncommon and there were no leash laws. Mongrels were easy to find from pet owners and most pet stores sold unhealthy purebreds pumped out by puppy mills. Things have changed for the better today but the fish industry is "behind the times". The solution is to simply not support these "fish mills" that pump out unhealthy fish.

Although these adoption days are a welcome change, these corporations aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. They want you to adopt a dog so you will buy all the garbage food and other low end supplies/services they hawk. If you support them then you are part of the problem...

You seem so negative. So where are people supposed to buy dog food from? I love my job and for the company I work for and I'm not gonna criticize them. Its misunderstanding and jumping to conclusions that give these places bad rep. I just want there to be some understanding that hey yes your right there out to make money but there are those who actually care and understand why things just might not work correctly and I just want you guys to view it the way I do. We work at these places because we love animals and it's much more difficult than working any other retail because we have to know our products and the care requirements for these animals so we take that time to learn it. Now whether you want to be so against it is obviously your thoughts and opinions. But I'm not the part of the problem. I'm just there to share my experience with other employees and customers, try to provide them with the essential information so that their aquariums and inhabitants may thrive and they shall succeed.

 

[94Roarge]

Of course it's their fault. If they are getting unhealthy livestock then they need to change their source. If they can't find/sell healthy fish then maybe they should stop selling them. It's all about the money, not the health of the livestock. There aren't too many pet stores selling dogs anymore because educated consumers are well aware of the unhealthy animals being sold, and the refusal of experienced breeders selling to these livestock mills...

Not all "good suppliers" send "good fish" 100% of the time. A shop also doesn't get the luxury of picking individual fish. They receive what they receive, sometimes unfortunately. Handling from suppliers to stores also needs to be considered.

 

[ksc]

Here, read this. There's nothing wrong with being negative about disgusting and cruel businesses....

Warning- not for animal lovers
https://www.thedodo.com/petco-petsmart-pet-supplier-abuse-1563393540.html

more...
http://www.dragonflyeffectnews.com/boycott-petco-if-you-care-about-animal-cruelty/

 

[Joeganja]

Here, read this. There's nothing wrong with being negative about disgusting and cruel businesses....

Warning- not for animal lovers
https://www.thedodo.com/petco-petsmart-pet-supplier-abuse-1563393540.html

Yeah that um doesn't happen with the place I work at. But it's sad to see that happens to others.

 

[mort]

Of course it's their fault. If they are getting unhealthy livestock then they need to change their source. If they can't find/sell healthy fish then maybe they should stop selling them. It's all about the money, not the health of the livestock.

As someone who has worked in the industry albeit on the other side of the pond, this sums it up perfectly. If you go to a wholesaler you wouldn't buy diseased/skinny fish, so why would you put up with them being sent? The reason is economics. Large chains get a massive discount and simply rely on the fact they can pass the fish on before they die. I don't mean that it's different to any other shop but if they were concerned with the quality it would be easy for them to put a stop to it. It's also not hard to maintain shops system if you do it sensibly. There shouldn't be much mixing of new and old fish as you simply have a qt or observation section that you put new fish into until you are sure they are healthy before moving them into the sales tank (can be just a rack for the new fish next to the sales tanks).
We have chains over here and some are terrible but you get the odd gem in the rough. These are where more knowledgeable staff are but in general terms those that can seem to move onto their own shop.

 

[Water Dog]

Warning- not for animal lovers
https://www.thedodo.com/petco-petsmart-pet-supplier-abuse-1563393540.html

PETA...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2979220

 

[ksc]

PETCO...

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/2979220

 

[Water Dog]

I see what you did there... , but then you still have to click on the article, lest you keep your blinders on.

 

[Uwharrie]

No the reason stores are no longer selling dogs and cats is the internet. sites like puppyfind ect are loaded with dogs from commercial breeders. Don't be fooled the large scale commercial breeders are still at it. They have just changed their marketing tactics ( and cut out the middle men)

The reason that most pet stores don't sell dogs is due to the fact that there are so many dogs that are being bred and not wanted. Most pet stores will have adoption days where whoever they have in the area bring the animals for adoption because it's better for those animals to have a chance of getting adopted rather than somebody going to the pet shelter they will bring them to pet stores for conscience and it's usually every weekend for a lot of places.

 

[Joeganja]

No the reason stores are no longer selling dogs and cats is the internet. sites like puppyfind ect are loaded with dogs from commercial breeders. Don't be fooled the large scale commercial breeders are still at it. They have just changed their marketing tactics ( and cut out the middle men)

You'll still be surprised a majority of people want to adopt to help an animal in need. That goes for dogs and cats. So many breeders that want to make money and there are so many dogs and cats that are in need of a home there becomes competitor to find it. One of our adoptions posts their animals up for adoption by sharing it on Facebook and their sites.

 

[ksc]

I see what you did there... , but then you still have to click on the article, lest you keep your blinders on.

I'm no fan of PETA, but I'm sure this guy isn't either. Luckily, the PA DA and the USDA didn't have their "blinders" on....

http://patch.com/pennsylvania/lansdale/man-cited-28-counts-animal-cruelty-montgomery-county-da

 

[Water Dog]

Ummmm... okay?

 

[Water Dog]

As with everything else, it all comes down to personal choice... who we buy things from, what businesses we choose to support. I just caution everyone to beware of our own hypocrisy when we stand up on our little soap boxes. To think that many of these practices don't happen with online vendors or other retailers is just naive. It's all about economics, driven by we as hobbyists. We rant on about Petco, yet we pat ourselves on the back because we buy from Divers Den (owned by Petco). We lament the loss of the LFS yet we drive them out of business by shopping online. How many threads do we read going off on LFS employees because we spent a month on the forums and now know everything!?!

Am I guilty of shopping at Petco? Absolutely. When I'm in the neighborhood, I always stop by to see if there's anything cool. But when I take any fish into my care, I do everything I can to ensure it's survival... TTM and QT. Does that make me evil for buying from them? I hope not.

But then again, not only am I an avid reefkeeping hobbyist, I'm also an avid sport fisherman. So maybe I'm evil after all... Talk about a hypocrite!