A question that I struggle with, and I'm sure others do as well...

[jassermd]

@Timfish That’s just awesome! Not much different than looking at human immunity and immunodeficiencies that can occur due to specific diseases.
Your response is insightful and thought provoking. It’s those things that we overlook when we say “stable parameters “… stability in chemistry is one thing, stability in an ecosystem and biome are completely different.
This is what has had me baffled… what can we do to create that stability and diversity?
I really think we’re fooling ourselves when we say it’s parameters, light or flow. There is so much more to what we are building and maintaining than parameters. It’s a living ecosystem that relies on things that we can’t see, measure or even come close to knowing.
So, for all those that have “coral issues”, just know that no matter how much or how well you care for your reef, there will always be things that we can’t see, measure or deal with not because we don’t care, but only because we just don’t know…

 

[DrZoidburg]

Could be as simple as it was just the runt not getting enough food. Don't really know why.

 

[Timfish]

@Timfish That’s just awesome! . . .
So, for all those that have “coral issues”, just know that no matter how much or how well you care for your reef, there will always be things that we can’t see, measure or deal with not because we don’t care, but only because we just don’t know…

Thank you! A common thread in all the research I read echos your last line "We don't know . . .". (Yet! )

 

[austibella]

I have lost all the corals in these pics in a 4 month time.i am devastated . Why? I have no idea what caused this. I have had them for many years watching them grow. It is heartbreaking to watch these animals die and try to do everything in my power to save them .was it a new batch of salt or bacteria or coral warfare I just don't know. Are we just feeding to much adding additives to much. Was something wrong with the pellets. Or bad additives? I did have an outbreak of bryopsis from Hell that I have no idea where it came from that I have been at war with and I do believe it must have something do with the water quality as I was trying to kill it. I do 75 gallon water changes every month on my 180
. And test my water. Any coral that dies, is from changes months prior to it's death. I read up on reefs as much info as I can. Something is happening in my tank that is not comming up in any test results. Maybe the 10 yrs syndrome? I even borrowed my grandsons microscope but it wasn't strong enough. Think I will go buy a good one.. I am on a mission now to find out.. maybe I will never know. It did a 75 gal water change a few days ago and will do another one tomorrow, so I can clean the crushed coral bed again..cant buy more coral till I figure this out. What an expensive battle this is. I just hope all my other corals stay alive.fish are all fine. Need to get more clean up crew tomorrow. RiP my beautiful corals im so sorry. its hard sometimes playing Mother Nature

 

[jassermd]

Hence the reason for the post and thread...
What you described is what also plagues medicine at times... when we don't know, we beat ourselves up to find an answer and more importantly, to make sure it doesn't happen again.
This is what fascinates me about this hobby... we are recreating an ecosystem that has so many variables that we don't know how or why they interact with our livestock.
SO much to learn and so little time!

 

[kjkaminski]

This post could not be more timely for me. I have experienced the same over the past month or two. Very healthy corals that had been thriving, eating, and growing for over a year all of a sudden start to decline and die while others continue to do well. I test and measure and find little deviation in results. I was getting very frustrated and discouraged. Good to see others experience this as well. Love all the responses. Thanks!

 

[Nano sapiens]

1. We typically don't know where are wild corals come from: (geographical location which can be as extreme as Atlantic vs. Pacific), depth, turbidity, flow rates, nutrients, etc.). Mixing all these different corals together means they have to deal with potentially new (to them) microorganisms of all kinds that they may not have encountered before. Most of the time this isn't a big issue as corals are by nature resilient and adaptable (within limits). But some are more adaptable than others due to genetics, species specific microbiomes. etc. and it can take an extended period of time before they perish. Since we can't ask a coral "How are you doing today", we may have little or no visible indications as to how it is really doing internally.

2. Consider that our popular cultivated corals are so widespread in the hobby because the type/strains have proven themselves to be amenable to captive conditions. Not all wild corals are and this is why the mantra 'captive corals do better than wild' is generally true.

 

[KrisReef]

You guys are great! It's a philosophical question that I struggle with...

Oceans have perfected the process over the millions of years and it's fascinating that we can replicate it enough to have these amazing creatures live in our living rooms.
I struggle with it because I see it as my duty to do what I can to ensure their survival, not unlike my real job. Hence why I'm trying see what others think...

We all struggle within the creation. Forget the billions of years lottery nonsense and you can start to appreciate what has clearly been Created. See Genesis 1 for more information.

I've tried the primordial soup, and it is inedible.

 

[Bruce Burnett]

Totally agree! And the question is why?
And this isn't unique to just coral... in medicine, we encounter cases where there is no answer or error. In those instances, we are able to present the findings, collaborate with other docs, and try to figure out what really happened, if we can.
That's what I'm after... a discussion about what happens. I agree with the point that the variables we don't know and can't control are the ones that are likely causing more coral demise than we care to admit.
Saying that Ca is low, Mg is high, flow or lighting is too low/high is like walking into a patient room and seeing the monitor but not actually looking for the answer as to why they are dying. Yes, someone can have a low oxygenation, but it's the undiagnosed lung cancer that caused the issue. You can fix the O2 problem, but the real issue hasn't been addressed.
A conundrum...

Well just like human health something can cause a health problem and never find a cause. It can be something that causes a person to die or a long term problem. As a patient that had bleeding issues with teeth pulled, then colon polyps and then with aortic valve heart surgery. No bleeding with sinus surgery or kidney cancer surgery. Went to have back surgery which was canceled found out I am a hemophilliac A, like my brother and my mother's father. So now I am a hemophilliac on blood thinners that has been dealing with obscure intestinal bleeding for a year maybe even longer. Luckily I have gone to ER multiple times just because of not feeling well if not I may not still be here. No diagnosis until late in life, should have been done in my childhood like my brother was. Since 2014 I have had 26 units of blood products and in the last year 10 iron infusions while they were trying to find and fix the intestinal bleeding. So I guess same thing can happen with corals something we can't see to even test for or treat. At least a human can say how they are feeling but what is in our tank can only be what we observe as even many corals and fish can deal with big swings in temperature and even salinity.

 

[austibella]

1. We typically don't know where are wild corals come from: (geographical location which can be as extreme as Atlantic vs. Pacific), depth, turbidity, flow rates, nutrients, etc.). Mixing all these different corals together means they have to deal with potentially new (to them) microorganisms of all kinds that they may not have encountered before. Most of the time this isn't a big issue as corals are by nature resilient and adaptable (within limits). But some are more adaptable than others due to genetics, species specific microbiomes. etc. and it can take an extended period of time before they perish. Since we can't ask a coral "How are you doing today", we may have little or no visible indications as to how it is really doing internally.

2. Consider that our popular cultivated corals are so widespread in the hobby because the type/strains have proven themselves to be amenable to captive conditions. Not all wild corals are and this is why the mantra 'captive corals do better than wild' is generally true.

I agree. I believe this has to be true . We have so many beautiful corals that normally would never be in the same ocean, they all have different needs. And do have their own chemical warfare

 

[austibella]

I would love to take courses in Marine Biology. Bad enough I lost some corals for reasons I will probably never know but then today my all my clown fish booted out one clown! And they are attacking him.Poor little guy had to go to the other side of my 180 tank but there is a huge tomato clown that lives on that side and he is trying to kill him . All my other tangs, wrass, a other fish are going crazy ( guess they are protesting. L.o.L) So I'm on a stool trying to net him to put him in a breeder box for protection .. they always got along all these years.. guess I will set up a another tank for him. all these years stress free tank. This year my tank is stressing me out trying to figure out why after all these years what has gone wrong. Think I will take a ride to Tampa Aquarium and talk to the pros. Maybe its time to go back to the old school method. We add so many additives and coral food to grow better more colorful corals , adding beneficial bacteria etc,so many new things on the market and of course i have to get it..maybe its Just to Much! And months or years later we destroy the thing we most treasure. Killing with kindness.i shut down my 120R octopus bio churn I'm wondering have I added to much beneficial bacteria in the past 2 yrs and the corals couldn't take much more ? There are no test to find out. I need to find out how a beautiful thriving aquarium that I have had corals spawning That were healthy for yrs suddenly die. Not to mention my fish are acting weird..I did 2-- 75 gallon water changes, hopefully that will get anything out of the water and put Purit carbon in my reactors to also clean out any metals or any chemicals that might be in the water. Hopefully this will clear up the mystery

 

[Paul B]

"We don't know .

No we don't and may never know why a particular coral dies. They also do it in the sea.
Last week with in one day my 2nd largest, oldest SPS bleached and died with in 2 days. I don't even know what kind of coral it is because it is so old and I don't remember even getting it but it probably came in with something else by accident.

It was probably 12, 15 or more years old and about 8". I have a few more of them that seem fine. It was right in the center of my tank and my centerpiece.

It doesn't bother me as everything else looks fine and I just accept it as one of those enigma's of the hobby.
The tropical sea is full of dead coral living right next to healthy coral and I doubt any marine biologist could explain it.

Hard to see but it is the highest coral on the right side of the tank and sat there in that spot for 3 years. I had it way before I moved the tank here.