A Rant over the lack of fish quality today

[lion king]

"One thing you said I have to disagree with is involvement of a store in questioning purchases." from zoomonster
I don't believe in interrogation, and I do my own research and know more than most at any lfs. But you see the post with the free volitan lion, that might have been adverted if someone would have asked what is in the tank he is putting it in.

 

[twin77]

Petco.... :mad:

 

[LadAShark]

Not QT per se; just run some copper thru the fish system to protect new arrivals from infection. This is how it was done 20-30 years ago and folks weren't losing fish left & right like they are today.

As long as you don't overdose copper, the worst it usually does is suppress appetite. This can become a problem if the fish has gone too long without eating and starts to waste away. So, ask to see the fish eat before buying.

There are pros & cons to "buying out of the bag". At least it's one less tank the fish has to acclimate into/potentially contract diseases from, but you also don't get a good look at the specimen, observe his behavior and know whether or not the fish is eating.

There are some fish that don't do well with copper like sharks and eels, but then again those fish tend to be hardy against velvet and ich in the first place.

As for buying out of the bag, there are some fish I will not buy out of the bag, but many others that I would. It all depends on the fish.

 

[4FordFamily]

My tank is close to full anyway but I pretty much stopped buying fish from internet a while back (only ever bought a few from Liveaquaria/DD anyway). I'm fortunate to have a LFS that mostly buys from quality marine and/or hand picks at various distributors around the state. Every fish that comes in gets at least a freshwater/methylene blue dip and goes into fish system with therapeutic doses of copper and any fish that shows any sign of issue gets yanked for quarantine and treatment. In 2+ years I have been buying from them I have only ever lost maybe 2 fish that perished long term from some sort of internal issue whether parasite or liver issues. The quality of fish there is a far cry from the probably going to be diseased fish and/or die from some other central FL area stores that buy the cheapest fish they can get and sell at premium prices.

Things could have changed or they could all be having problems now but chances are I won't buy any fish w/o a quality marine label. They have long had a reputation as the only west coast distributor who not only knows how to treat fish disease but actually do it. QM is a little more money at wholesale and a lot of stores will look for the absolute cheapest source to increase margins. Of course I know of another place that buys a lot of QM fish but they get thrown straight into less than ideal quality sales tanks where disease is prevalent.

QM (live aquaria's supplier) and even divers den, etc are overrun with velvet and ich like the rest of them. I'm getting lots of fish with velvet from both. Divers den less but still an issue

 

[LadAShark]

QM (live aquaria's supplier) and even divers den, etc are overrun with velvet and ich like the rest of them. I'm getting lots of fish with velvet from both. Divers den less but still an issue

I'm going to be ordering many fish in like 2 months, so that honestly worries me :/

 

[Humblefish]

There are some fish that don't do well with copper like sharks and eels

Keep those in a separate system and dose Chloroquine phosphate.

 

[4FordFamily]

I'm going to be ordering many fish in like 2 months, so that honestly worries me :/

Quarantine and treat with CP or Copper and don't stress it my friend

 

[goatcorals]

Is NLS Ich shield cp and is it good quality? Is the effective and is the recommended dose appropriate?

 

[Humblefish]

Is NLS Ich shield cp and is it good quality? Is the effective and is the recommended dose appropriate?

All I know for sure is it's CP sourced from China (as per NLS). I never got a straight answer about whether or not they are testing it for purity.

 

[LadAShark]

Quarantine and great with CP or Copper and don't stress it my friend

Thanks

Keep those in a separate system and dose Chloroquine phosphate.

Oh, yeah. I was speaking in regards to keeping copper in all system. But yes, I will do so.

 

[JohnnyRambo]

I'm sorry for the loss. It sucks when you try so hard and they still don't make it. And with all the radiation still spewing from Fukushima I wouldn't doubt all the west coast fish are becoming less tolerable to disease.

 

[tj w]

Petco.... :mad:

How long has the store been open?

 

[twin77]

How long has the store been open?

Sept 2015...

 

[eliramos]

I cannot agree enough with this,
I have purchased four fish in the last few weeks and only one has survived. All from the same lfs too, tank is not aggressive water quality has been perfect they just haven't survived.
Idk if it's the method of capture or what but it's really sad that so many seemingly healthy fish are just dying for no reason!

 

[reef_junkie]

That "petco" tank shot reminds of the time that a petco employee tried to convince me that the Cyano in the tank was "Brine Algae".

 

[tsm corals]

We recently opened our store a few months ago and began stocking fish and coral. We will not sell any fish that has not been through our 30 day quarantine process. Yes we lose some fish during quarantine, but we would rather take the loss than immediately ship something out without being quarantined.We are hobbyist also and would never want to send a fish that has a poor survival rate and a great chance of infecting a customers tank.

 

[Sistawolf]

I live in Alabama and there is one lady at petco that knows what she is doing.. She tries to order the fish every month and the manager will not let her. Mind you she is out there with customers, requesting specific items.. And when you go on shipment day.. You are told that "they send them whatever they want" hard for me to believe... If this lady has been away from work.. Every tank is completely green, brown.. Algae.. She has asked if she can run copper through the tanks and they will not let her.. And she complains of their lighting all of the time.. Says the lighting has never been replaced..
After not qt fish and learning the hard way... I thought I would try petco again seeing as I have to drive an hour for better quality, and selection.. And the fish didn't make it 24 hours.. I'm DONE!! I will go without before I fight the battle because of ignorance.. If it's my fault.. I will make sure I provide any and every thing to reverse my mistake.. But I will not fix someone else's mistake for them.. I'm sorry you lost your fish.. Maybe if we all stop buying from these morons that are shipping sick fish.. They will think about what they are doing.. I know it's easier said than done because I myself know it's an addiction.. Haha but something has got to give..

 

[garryclarkfl]

I cannot agree enough with this,
I have purchased four fish in the last few weeks and only one has survived. All from the same lfs too, tank is not aggressive water quality has been perfect they just haven't survived.
Idk if it's the method of capture or what but it's really sad that so many seemingly healthy fish are just dying for no reason!

Definitely methods of capture done everything right for qt and 6 months they start not doing well.

 

[garryclarkfl]

I live in Alabama and there is one lady at petco that knows what she is doing.. She tries to order the fish every month and the manager will not let her. Mind you she is out there with customers, requesting specific items.. And when you go on shipment day.. You are told that "they send them whatever they want" hard for me to believe... If this lady has been away from work.. Every tank is completely green, brown.. Algae.. She has asked if she can run copper through the tanks and they will not let her.. And she complains of their lighting all of the time.. Says the lighting has never been replaced..
After not qt fish and learning the hard way... I thought I would try petco again seeing as I have to drive an hour for better quality, and selection.. And the fish didn't make it 24 hours.. I'm DONE!! I will go without before I fight the battle because of ignorance.. If it's my fault.. I will make sure I provide any and every thing to reverse my mistake.. But I will not fix someone else's mistake for them.. I'm sorry you lost your fish.. Maybe if we all stop buying from these morons that are shipping sick fish.. They will think about what they are doing.. I know it's easier said than done because I myself know it's an addiction.. Haha but something has got to give..

Its worth the drive believe me.

 

[Brian fischer]

A few words to the wise from someone who maintained a large wholesale facility for several years...

- Buy your fish roughly October - April, when possible. Obviously when you've just started a new tank in the summer it is understandable to want to start stocking it. With that said whether a wholesale facility practices good QT or not(most do not), the high temps of summer lead to fish shipments in far worse condition than late fall through early spring. Significant numbers of fish come in to the country in poor condition, sometimes near death or with outward symptoms of disease. Given that the "product" is very perishable wholesale companies look to turn and burn because it is the only way to stay afloat. Right now(July) is literally the worst time of year to buy an imported fish no matter the source if you can wait a few months. There are also certain species that are more prone to coming in with certain parasites than others. For instance green chromis, especially those imported at larger sizes, are highly susceptible to Uronema marinum infestations in the summer.

- Because of the first point above, retailers receive fish in worse condition during the summer and they have been shipped 2-3 times in high temps over a period of a week or two in some cases. Retailers shouldn't need to turn and burn as much as on the wholesale level as wholesalers eat most of the losses, but it seems many retailers maintain the same mentality unfortunately. For this reason I won't buy fish that arrived at my lfs within 7-10 days minimum for the most part.

- Many retailers simply don't understand proper QT procedure/meds. I had numerous retail customers call me to ask how to properly QT new fish knowing that we ran CU and Prazi, as well as FW dips and formalin baths as necessary on all our fish. The knowledge gap was a little staggering considering these people owned businesses and did not have the knowledge to protect their investment. I don't know whether it is a lack of effort or information. This is not to say all fish stores practice poor QT practices, but that you should absolutely probe and ask questions before a purchase, as even the most outwardly healthy looking fish can turn bad in a few days.

- Finally, most of the people selling you fish(retail or wholesale) are not maliciously selling you sick fish. Some diseases take several days to show visible symptoms. High shipping temps only make it worse. Unfortunately, disease is part of importing fish and it is nearly impossible to guarantee a fish is disease free in the time span the animal goes from hitting the US to your home aquarium. With this in mind when people recommend to QT all new arrivals, it is not a joke. 3-4 weeks of a solid CU/Prazi regime can handle what most of you will encounter and it's not very hard to dose correctly. Flukes should never make it into a DT. I personally FW dip every fish I buy before they go in a QT tank whether they look bad or not. You'd be surprised how many flukes can be present on an outwardly healthy, eating fish.