A summary of the rule changes regarding reef tank cycling, 2020

brandon429

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The number of parameters measured allowing your start date is now reduced from three parameters measured (ammonia nitrite nitrate) into only one-nh3 form free ammonia. We dont need three-parameter compliance anymore to begin reefing safely. we need know only that ammonia is controlled.

every reef keeping convention you ever went to or read about had already been managed this way, it just took us on forums twenty years to accept the notion. When you went to or read about MACNA, was exacting cycling required to start four hundred reefs all by Friday? They lined up one param, not three.

-nitrite no longer needs to be factored or tested for in any phase of display tank reefing. to not own the kit saves you money, saves you invalid hesitation. Nitrite is the most unneeded to know param in all of reefing and in direct contrast to YouTube videos on cycling, nitrite does not stall a reef tank’s ability to process nh3 ammonia I believe we can prove with work thread links.
this is one.

how to unstick any stalled cycle (=change out your water and begin, you were never stalled)

We have a hundred nitrite positive reef starts on file when needed for inspection, and nobody agrees that one hundred examples of an api reading are to be accepted as fact anyway. But we all accept api nitrite as incontestable...stop testing for nitrite at all if your goal is to run a display tank reef, it will save you a headache. Most of the + readings are not accurate anyway, they’re all api, links in the chemistry forum show reasons why marine cycles do not need nitrite data regardless of the test kit used.


I have been tracing for two years on file several extra bottle bac purchases spurned solely by false api nitrite test reads—omitting nitrite testing from reef tank cycling will save people a LOT of money. After we interrupted their upcoming order of new cycling bacteria, to remedy high nitrite after initial strain was used, we track out their new fish bioload in typical working health and the aquarist can see that nitrite never had a bearing at all. The initial purchase was enough. Example threads are handy for this claim, several current ones are in the chemistry forum as of now. See first few forum pages for the threads.


nh3 is the only parameter we need to verify active control for in reef tank cycling. One param, not three api params to wrestle with.

Reef tank cycles do not stall causing you to need to buy something to unstall

-reef tank cycles do not stall, they complete in relation to the type of boosting used such as bottled bacteria (1-10 days average completion time until a 100% water change does not affect the nitrification ammonia test, it’s truly locked in place per Dr. Reef’s thread) or in the case of cured aquarium live rock transfers, an instant skip cycle into the new glass container. Moving rocks among tanks in reasonable delay does not kill the cycle or mini cycle, it simply transfers alive with no help. This is the vast majority of instant reefs from a macna convention, which is a collection of folks who’d never be caught stalling a cycle. Shows it’s possible to accomplish what I’m saying....They’ve been pulling off five hundred instant reefs for twenty five years now. Imagine all the other conventions too, collectively, how’d they get so consistent? As you read forum cycle examples, could they have made a given Friday’s start date? What must change for them to do so?

2020 cycling evenly distributes allowed start dates for everyone, no flaming allowed. We can all have the quick starts, legitimately, if we want. Also handy: you can now download songs in one second vs forty two minutes. There is a Moore’s law for reef cycling, we‘re in the vortex. Accept it.


It is both easy and possible to fully opt out of cycling a reef tank using today’s updated rules for the arrangement and verification. That includes full dry start systems using no live rock, I have handy entire reefs created in one day using bottle bac.

if someone doubts the ability, longevity or equality of a convention skip cycle vs a 60 day ramp old school cycle, let’s compare links. I have links where skip cycle reefs are tracked out years of growth, my own reef is one and its fifteen years old.

cycles that are unassisted- like thirty years ago before bottled bacteria, add water and wait, complete on natural timeframes shown by cycling charts.

why is it that cycling charts are the same ~ duration page to page vs as varying as a forum cycle? We have been assessing cycles as the consumers, not the sellers, is why.

environmental contaminations and feed sources we didn’t imagine while assembling the system if given enough wait time will bring up and sustain their own cycle. Those slow old school cycles are not stalled; relative no having no boosters used the fact they eventually self-cycle without our help asserts the reliability of these bacteria not the dependency on our retail purchases. It explains why cycling charts don’t vary much from old books on wastewater engineering or the various ones from online searches. if you can solve for time you can solve for the parameter using an old cycling chart, especially if you’ve dosed one of today’s speedy bottle bac options.
We need to get back to trusting thats not a sixty or seventy five day system; at worst it’s a 30 day system.


2020 revalues the cycling chart and it’s eighty + years of reliability. Only recently with the advent of single-point api reading did the hobby want to remake charts showing ammonia rising back up and holding for sixty days at .25. Thats not how cycling works in reefing. It works like a cycling chart, perhaps quicker with the good bacteria :)

-cycling is no longer about getting zero ammonia on your test kit. It’s about accepting the fact most non-digital ammonia test kits are gonna indicate low level free ammonia for most reefers, even after cycling, so we needed a new way to measure. the internet is littered with the proof of .25 api non validity- and just like Seabass once predicted, all test kits can misread, mislead- even seneye. the new way to use common hobby testers to reveal a cycle is by causing up/down motion on the kit, we don’t care what the low end reads.

This allows for owners of kits that are never going to show less than .25 in their respective systems to participate in consistent cycle evaluation. Before the three point test, it was sheer lunacy in cycling. Reef tank conventions never failed to be ready by Friday, but forum cyclers had to wait 30-60 days for a legitimate start? I don’t think so. 2020 cycling gives pure control to everyone, equally, with very predictable timeframes.

this thread below shows how to get any ammonia tester to reveal cycling motion vs depending on a single reading to make the final call, and coincidentally this thread also shows that reef tank cycles do not stall, he presented with 8ppm sustained api ammonia after having overdosed. Everyone in forums told him that killed his cycling bacteria, it of course didn’t. this below is the new way of using api and Red Sea and salifert to clearly indicate cycle readiness:

1. take and post an ammonia reading + reference card picture for use as the baseline.
2. add ammonium chloride into the system a little at a time until a new ammonia test from the tank shows slightly darker in the test vial compared to picture #1. Post picture #2, it is slightly darker than picture 1 bc you dosed in more ammonium chloride.
3. third picture is the test for ammonia after 48 hours. If pic three matches pic 1 the cycle is ready, if pic 3 matches pic 2 still, its stalled.


there is the new measure being used to call a cycle ready that would have been deemed not ready by the old rules.

Truth in surface area mechanics-

-live rock is the fundamental base filtration system for your reef. Your sandbed or a bunch of filter media inline is not an integral link to preventing a recycle or inability to handle nh3 waste ammonia. It is possible to remove a sandbed all at once, or a filter, and not cause a cycle because the stand-alone ability of live rock is enough even without your sand. removing sand instantly does not mean your live rock must take on the replacement bacterial mass, what you need to do after removing sandbeds from a reef system if needed is re ramp the lighting, the new clean condition for the reef calls for slow light intensity work up.
your system will now handle sandbed cleaning or total removal just fine, read the official sand rinse thread for work examples of instant sandbed cleans and removals-we use accurate surface area mechanics to avoid killing people’s systems for five years in one thread, while repeatedly breaking the number one rule in reefing - you must remove extra surface area in slow sections so the other areas in the tank can take on replacement bacteria. That is a false rule and macna entrants have not been following it either. Only forum posters.

the forums have been wrong twenty years about that and I will rate this finding as the most impactful new rule change for 2020. Live rocks do not take on more bacteria to make up for sand, or filters, or both instantly removed.


how surface area works in a reef tank:
wastewater presentation to the rocks and the surface area of the rocks alone is either enough for the tank bioload or it isn’t, unrelated to the extra surface area we choose to use in reef tanks like sandbeds or filters.

Giving time in removing extra surface area does not allow your live rocks to take on more bacteria, they were full of bacteria already / it’s why we called them live rocks.

Even if you did stack more bacteria on live rocks by slowing your tank currents, upping feeding, that will reduce surface area presentation to wastewater with every new scum layer stacked vs increase it, and you’ll drop the filter efficiency orders by adding more bac/02 consumers.
If live rock took on bacteria to make up for accessory removal, it would filter less efficiently not more. The only way to gain efficiency is to add more activated surface area into the water flow, or clean the current rock structure out of its waste so that porosity is increased and thereby surface area of the existing structure is increased contact to wastewater. The way we have learned these changes above is by removing full sandbeds, from years-old mixed reefs, instantly, while hooked to mindstream and or seneye. the base nh3 ability never changed due to the rules above. If the old rules were correct, lack of bacteria would have spiked nh3 and killed the whole system, but it never moved. Live rocks alone are able to handle your entire bioload, without ramp time. ***the key to prevent loss in the post-removal system was reducing the lighting and increasing system feed support in relation to the system losing all its waste stores in one pass. The sand rinse and removal thread is forty pages of instant removal work for inspection if needed, to verify or challenge the rule adjustment above regarding surface area mechanics in reefing.

it was also discussed in posts this year that existing bacteria can simply just shift into handling more waste should accessory surface area become absent; not only did they not need additional colony numbers to meet a new increased waste loading, the existing relative colony numbers were enough to just step up and keep the conversion rates consistently test to test. Detailed seneye testing has revealed this characteristic of what surface area does in a reef tank, it trends by rule to the controlled condition, not the slightly above safe condition, in every case seen in 2020.

-in all of 2020 I did not see one single stalled cycle from any post, any forum. Not one. every post claiming to miss a start date was ready when we tested like Jack’s reef above, except for brightwell bottle bac users they were taking closer to a month to show clear movement of ammonia in the calibrated test arrangement above

i saw a bunch of random single point ammonia tests causing responsive retail purchases, we want to lessen and stop that in 2021 and beyond.

we set up cycle proofing threads left and right like Jack’s above and relative to the brand name of bacteria used (fritz was fastest, Dr Tims is most often used, about 10-15 days till completion every single time, and brightwell bacteria seem very slow comparatively, averaging one month till compliance)


-the rules about fish + bottle bac + wet caribsea sand + adding it into a reef together at the start vs a 30 day wait have changed.

- don’t take my word for it- ask yourself: is fish - in cycling (Fish plus bottle bac and wet sand and no wait time) increasing or decreasing on a daily basis, across the web forums? It’s quadrupling.

its the new wave, nobody wants to wait and they don’t have to, In this decade we learned that selling aquatic bacteria to someone in water was not revolutionary and that it transfers among tanks quite well. We can accept that now, no more doubt for the sake of doubt, seneye readings are out there to compare nowadays.

bottle bac preps move the bacteria to the new tank and along with initial dilution quite well, the efficacy of bottle bac has presented a forum’s worst nightmare: a deluge daily of new reefers with dry start tanks no longer having ammonia issues with two cycling clowns in tow (the fish behave well and eat and not die because it’s under control) but now there are scourges of dinos invasions and crypto/brook challenges requiring us to look past simple misreading test kit cycling challenges and into some logical way of handling fish disease en masse


The fundamental summary of reef tank microbiology for 2020 and this decade in my opinion is the amazing consistency and resilience inherent to these natural bacteria, we are not as reliant on retail purchases and careful arrangement control to complete a reef rank cycle as we recently started thinking after the 80s

if you’ve added water, it’s going to cycle.


critiques as well as testimony from anyone using amended cycling rules or exclusively old ones are welcomed. All the info above is a condensed summary of hundreds of available work threads, for any claim made we have several tanks to track out for inspection. I think I can find a reasonably-matched work thread for any verification needed, more than one per point.
 
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brandon429

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fish-in cycling is now mainstream. I support it because it is true that today’s arrangement can control nh3, the only parameter needed to control in cycling. The challenge is fish disease


the reason it’s important to know what’s changed in 2020 regarding filter bacteria concepts is because your confidence skyrockets, your expenditures are deliberate vs reactive, your actions taken during setup or relocation are deliberate vs hesitating and thereby safer; and we kill less animals due to mistakes and loss waste if a common rule set is found accurately updated. 2020 was about total control over our cycling bacteria, not constant doubt and worry.

I did not see one single failed fish-in cycle due to incomplete filtration in all of 2020.

making bottle bac preps work quicker: add a little ground fish food


I have relayed to many cyclers Dr. Reef’s trick of adding a pinch of fish food into cycles, along with bottled bac, so that heterotrohic-yet-nitrifying strains commonly used for speed cycling can get some carbon. in other words, if you add common bottle bac into a system that has a little fish food already dissolving /finely crushed up high surface area along with your cycling ammonia, the bacteria set up shop faster due to the types of bacteria they used. The fish food is providing nutrients used in metabolism beyond ammonia nitrogen, and ammonia nitrogen isn’t a a complete feeding substrate. If you aren’t dosing the extra carbon and micronutrients then environmental exchanges are handing it, just slower.

the missing link for quicker bottle bac establishment is simple fish food. Just a little, from Dr. Reef’s bottle bac comparison and timing thread.
 
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Zoajohn

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I tend to agree RE: Fish-in cycling / bottled bac. Fritz Turbostart is the real deal. Took ammonia down from 2ppm to undetectable in 36hrs and no spikes following. The only thing I still don't do is add acros immediately.
 
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Well said. one thing the hobby has pressed for is pre-verification before adding life, to eliminate the dead bottle bac risk (but I never saw a single example this year in all cycling threads, many did pre-verify readiness).
The movement you described above to me is now the universally accepted maximum soon start date for a common entry bioload and its feed requirements. Some people such as the BRS approach wants to mature out the reef well past nitrification ability and into supporting food networks and biofilm maturation/ the 4 month brs buildup cycle thats fine as well. but there are times people want a certain ready-date to carry life, and providing that reliably is no longer taboo. By reducing the number of parameters required to comply down to one, and by changing the ways we use test kits away from single point readings it’s now hard to find a cycle that doesn’t meet the date on the directions. The minority is now non compliant cycles and every cycle thread I saw in 2020 was on track for its boosters used, though they originally thought the cycle was stalled due to bottom- end readings always equaled .25
 
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The second most important pattern that emerged from web threads was the fact that the condition of stuck-in-place .25 free ammonia does not actually happen in display tank reefing using today’s typical bottle bac boosting.


thats a borderline rash claim to make...that free ammonia is so in demand once substrates are active that unused tenths are not permitted but we can sample from seneye owners who see nh3 in the active hundredths and thousandths ppm conversion rate, thanks to new digital live-time ammonia testers.


what we used to think free ammonia did in a reef tank, it was not doing. It was never stalling at .25, reef tank cycles don’t stall. Unless we introduce antibiotics, a cycle follows the expected completion time for its particular boost used. We all use so much more active surface area in a display, your rocks and sand either control ammonia and trend to the thousandths ppm conversion rate, or the nh3 levels trend up and you get a tank crash.


-gone- is the notion that nh3 levels can sustain in the tenths ppm every day, same levels, and all animals act the same as they do in thousandths ppm levels. When nh3 is sustained out of control all fish will exhibit toxicity / never eating/ gasping and inflammation and the water will cloud and you’ll have no trouble seeing harm without any ammonia reading. reefs either control their ammonia or they crash/ full consequence, there is no mid-ground hang up and sustain level above at maximum: hundredths ppm.

Looking past subjective color evaluation, digital ammonia measures have restored faith in the eighty year old cycle chart. What reef tanks with rocks and sand (display setups= high surface area) do is very predictable we now know, ammonia remains controlled and always trending safely by inherent design...vs highly varied which is how cycles go if we follow the common approaches forums require with one- off ammonia test reads and three-parameter compliance

when ammonia drops to total control, by day ten or sooner with bottle bac, it doesn’t ever come back up (barring mass death etc, in homeostasis a reef tanks ammonia control can never, ever drift out of line)
New cycling rules restore trust in what filter bacteria do. There isn’t a point in cycling using calibrated, working seneye machines where ammonia from 2 ppm goes down to .25 ppm after adding bac, hangs there days and doesnt go down further. Thats API’s entire testing history with ammonia, it was all false.

those readings were in the thousandths ppm nh3 the whole time, if we are to believe today’s seneye machines who report thousandths - ppm nh3 conversion rates on 98% of systens running, including bare bottom or sandbedded and everything in between. Thousandths ppm nh3 conversion rate is what reef tanks run at, never .25

doubt in what filter bacteria do wastes thousands and thousands of dollars collectively, there is a massive industry to unstick reef tank cycles such as purchasing three separate strains of bacteria because each one seems to only partially work. None of that is true, we can see nh3 ammonia dynamics truth now because access to new testers has arrived


seneye has done more to break old cycling rules than any of us has.


every single rule change stated above has been tested here for five straight years, one single work thread.



we do not require testing of any parameter to cycle any reef, dry or wet, there. We are using submersion timing + known boosts as an estimate, for years on end and no losses no stalls. Cycle charts set the maximum required start time. We did not use one-off api reads for anything.


when we change the meter we use to call a cycle ready, the allowed start dates change, our self-reliance increases, our expenditures drop, and that results in much faster cycling overall along with the emergence of completely skipping the cycle altogether.
 
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Going forward we will see the wait time for starting a reef tank go down


the mortality rate for newly stocked animals will go down, these bottled mixes are good and positive- feedback systems will drive market presence and prominence.


disease and invasion control/response will be the upcoming challenge, we are already well past the date where basic waste control came in a bottle or effectively rode in as live rock from an existing system. Notice as we read all these fish-in cycle threads coming in 2021 how many of them failed. Retention rates for new organisms are now through the roof strong, its disease robbing today’s marine fish of their max captive potential lifespans, it’s never an ammonia spike. Those don’t happen as often as stated, I recall none reported by working seneye machines in 2020


what the hobby needs most in 2021 in my opinion is the effective arrangement needed to beat invasive dinoflagellates at the 80% or better rate, as found in work thread collections. Today’s best patterns appear to help suppress dinos takeover about 35-40% of the time. Most just have to live with it. The gains up from 20% to 40% have been earned my MCarroll, Taricha and Scott and phosphate nitrate balancers. well done work thread, their dinos work thread in the nuisance algae forum. No matter what you read online, I know of no bottled doser, no method or arrangement able to exceed 40% restoration rates in dinos help threads, many tanks live with it until X date subsiding


if someone can clearly arrange a dinos help thread into 80% positive follow up reports and sustained cures that will be what we needed most in 2021, dinos control. Everyone is using dry start rocks nowadays, live rock skip cycle starts are the minority this year at 20% of seen new cycle threads.


In 2006, 90% of all cycled reefs were wet rock, cured live rocks from a pet store like this,
37DE6B95-4FAC-4078-B807-065CC7646DF8.jpeg



notice how we’ve changed. That ratio matters in today’s reefing challenges, but not for ammonia control. That’s inherent by surface area in position.
80% of cycling threads in 2020 involved a dry rock start, with liferock or dry marcos

Tampa Bay saltwater and KP aquatic‘s ability to mail skip cycle ocean cured diverse rock emerged about 10% of the time, in my opinion in 2020.
 
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MnFish1

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Thansk @brandon429 In other words... 1. You can add bacteria and fish at the same time - its not detrimental and saves time. I completely agree. 2. If you have Tank A - with cycled rock, fish, inverts - you can safely move them to tank B - without going through a 6 month cycling process - in fact you can do it immediately. (keeping params - temp, alkalinity, etc stable as possible)
 
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Yes agreed

and it’s inherently reliable tank to tank given similar use of boosters, we used to think cycle completion times ranged out to sixty days for some reefs, we didn’t see any of those in 2020.

we didn’t see any examples of dead bottle bac this year, those understandably might require a few weeks to catch up but every bottle bac instant start I saw this year clearly worked, thought it was worthy to stamp that summary for this time in our hobby.



so far, every fish- in cycle post is met with scorn by posters who assume fish feeding and acting normally have been harmed. The owners of the fish know things are fine, so a division emerged regarding basic trust or distrust in what bacteria do, caused by our testing methods.

We are barely emerging from the requirement to wait varying timeframes averaging 30-60 days for a reefing start. An entire functioning segment of our hobby, the sales- driving reef convention of the pre covd era, was using a different meter for their starts this whole time. Fascinating aspect of 2020 in my opinion.

I give you my word if you typed the exact wording as a poll in 2006 from post #7 100% of responders would have angrily disagreed, yet here we are. It’s now the accepted truth. In 2021 we will see the fear of cycling bacteria stalling or only partially-able to complete their job fade out of reef tank planning. in 2025 we can kick up this thread for accounting. Wanted to list every detail I’ve seen regarding the change in reef tank cycling procedure and biology.
 
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I’ve learned a lot from reading your threads, Brandon429 this year about cycling my tank, thank you for always championing this way of thinking.

it’s kind of funny how in the past “cycling” was so EASY with live ocean rock, many of us didn’t even know what was really happening...it just always worked.

i have a question,on the back of the brightwell bac start bottle it says to not mix it with another bac source or they will compete and stall out. When starting my caribsea liferock I didn’t realize that bac was painted on so I used the brightwell as well and this indeed did seem to stall ammonia consumption (via seneye). have you encountered this at all with bac sources competing?
 
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Brightwell was in pattern slow for us, thank you for filling in gaps with that relay. There’s no telling what’s in the mix lol if they say it will war another strain then that could be the case. tbd


one thing is for sure, someone buys a bottle of biospira for eight bucks and you are set. consistently


This was the most ludicrous speed- yet winthin legal range for a dry start cycle I recall. A whole reef at once. dry rock dry sand, biospira, and life. Plus months of follow up tracking.


Formerly offensive, now the first drop of a complete deluge coming down this is where cycling will trend, instant reefs:
 
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I upgrade my 16 to a 70.

mall my rock and some from kp aquatic along with some from the tank I bought (the 70) and my bio media.

i never cycled again.
 
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that thread was very important in updated discoveries for new cycling rules.

extended fallow without feeding doesn’t undo a cycle. Withholding feed isn’t antibiotic

when a lab tech needs a clean surface, they don’t begin by withholding fish food :)


Bacteria are to be assumed if you provided water, and or standard contamination pathways theyre not to be assumed dead because we withheld something.

Notice how no cycling charts have a ‘starved’ time zone. When ammonia trends down, it’s down, across charts. cycle-established bacteria feed if the system isn’t sealed off from common exchanges within the room.


if polled and asked before the above thread: “can live rocks unfed for three years keep the cycle in tact?”

the answer would be 98%:
what would you as a reader have voted
:)

here is a classic old school nitrite nitrate ammonia three parameter cycle. At seven weeks after bottle bac, stuck. Can’t reef. Can’t move homes or make a convention start date.
new cycling science can show several old rules in the hobby as wrong.
 
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Best example of 2020 cycling.

His tank was ready faster than a cycling chart permits

his tank was able the minute the rocks were set in the tank. he could have done two back to back 100% water changes and it wouldnt strip the bacteria off the surfaces, his rocks were protected against any degree of water changes because they were fully cycled + organic capping in every pore on every surface and then just moved. not any aspect of that is anti-meiofauna or antibacterial, so skip cycling is alive and well up there.

even bottle bac cannot pass instant oxidation verification per Dr Reef's thread it takes them 1-10 days to be able to adhere and endure unlimited 100% water changes. that adherence date is the new rule for a cycle being completed until better updates are pub'd


we need updated cycling charts, showing zero days for each parameter as an option, he did it above.


not having access to updated cycling charts is so 1908-2019. but no cycles are taking longer than the old charts said they did, all we do is speed them up.


not any are being extended, cycles don't stall in our filthy vectoring homes.
 
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Aquabiomics and other DNA sampling techniques made clear breakthroughs in letting us know what was inhabiting our tanks. it was a powerful finding to see that what bacterial mass changes into after maturity was not matching strains commonly associated with bottle bac or even marine bacteria in many cases, per their reports.

you'll have to search out the thread posts to discern the patterns, those are how I saw %'s emerge from reading aquabiomic's results posts.

we are indeed dosing bacteria that handle initial bioloading in otherwise dry starts...the fish-in cycle examples show that efficacy.

but just about any time after basic maturation, surface swabs show total replacement from initial strains and filled in by others associated with the substrates we've all been trading tank to tank.


it is neat to know that bacteria aren't long term impacted by our initial dosing, although it may do an initial job for us.



*

That thread is why there is a need for updated cycling rules, we stop losses, we prevent waste using exacting cycle microbiology/ability to skip cycles on demand like convention reefs.
 
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we contrast and compare old cycling rules to new ones in live time. Is a reef that shows positive nitrite after three months running with animals an accurate reading, and if so, what will be the impact to the reef if they keep it running?
should purchases be made to offset the condition?


can reef tank cycles vary such that some display tank reefs take ninety days to nitrite control (and does all the data supporting that clam come from titration hobby kits, notorious for drift in other params but never debated for nitrite?)
 
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Aquabiomics and other DNA sampling techniques made clear breakthroughs in letting us know what was inhabiting our tanks. it was a powerful finding to see that what bacterial mass changes into after maturity was not matching strains commonly associated with bottle bac or even marine bacteria in many cases, per their reports.

you'll have to search out the thread posts to discern the patterns, those are how I saw %'s emerge from reading aquabiomic's results posts.

we are indeed dosing bacteria that handle initial bioloading in otherwise dry starts...the fish-in cycle examples show that efficacy.

but just about any time after basic maturation, surface swabs show total replacement from initial strains and filled in by others associated with the substrates we've all been trading tank to tank.


it is neat to know that bacteria aren't long term impacted by our initial dosing, although it may do an initial job for us.



*

That thread is why there is a need for updated cycling rules, we stop losses, we prevent waste using exacting cycle microbiology/ability to skip cycles on demand like convention reefs.
I like the aquabiomics tests - one problem - I sent multiple samples from multiple areas in the tank - with some pretty 'varied' results. Additionally - my diversity was one of the lowest they had seen in one area - and one of the highest in another. So - its very difficult to tell...
 
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it was neat to read the differences in all the tanks when that system was running strong on send-ins/feedback posted agreed. I would not be surprised to hear of zonation even within our small systems for certain groups, I think it will take more companies providing readings to provide a benchmarking/ Eli certainly has a lot of work documented in threads to be counted as one of the first if not the first references for this kind of classification. very neat to be in on that era/in ten yrs will seem commonplace to know our clades per section lol. make that fifteen.

I was surprised to hear all the different species that can reduce ammonia, far beyond the typical three strains we read about in the late 90s. heterotrophs crossing over, dedicated nitrifiers meshed in, also found in the water to a substantial degree (to address the classic question on whether reef water carries a little or a lot of suspended nitrifying strains, consider Tuffloud's connecting two reefs thread where a dry system is cycled in 20 days solely by another tank's reef water contact)

There are direct youtube videos from macna saying reef water doesnt have many nitrifiers.

*I think that means the classic strains/ nitrosomonas etc. it certainly doesnt mean the strains that can reduce ammonia so we can add fish safely.


-also pointed out by Eli/Aquabiomics was the fact that species alternate as tanks age. what we add in bottle bac doesnt stay in place.

we can see those strains accomplish a job and meet a market need, a safe start date for adding life, but they aren't the long term resident species imported on frags
 

Timfish

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I like the aquabiomics tests - one problem - I sent multiple samples from multiple areas in the tank - with some pretty 'varied' results. Additionally - my diversity was one of the lowest they had seen in one area - and one of the highest in another. So - its very difficult to tell...
That there's differences in different areas of a reef system shouldn't surprise us. I've seen many times over the years a coral does well in one location but not in a different location even though water and light parameters are close. Further, research shows different microbes are promoted in the water column above different benthic organisms. Aquabiomic's tests are a huge step forward in helping to understand what's happening but we still have a long ways to go in understanding the interaction of microbial processes in the water and in the coral, sponge and algae holobionts.
 
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brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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very nice.

I like that you have a quote from Eric Borneman, the person who drove my interest in reefing the most bc he took time to chat with me in private message at reefcentral about pico reefs, before they were mainstream. if I had a miyagi it'd be him.
 
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brandon429

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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In this decade, we saw the final address as to whether or not reef water has cycling bacteria in it, or if they're fully and solely stuck to surfaces.


result:

free reefwater is about half as fast as bottled bac for cost. end result

see above :)


old school cycling rules would have rendered this in a poll: ask in a poll if reef water has cycling bacteria. You get 98% no because a youtube video says it doesn't have any. everyone knows its on the surfaces.

but per that thread...its in both places, surfaces and water. who would have guessed swirling wastewater had floating bac

maybe not of very tight genus... maybe not nitrosomonads for example

but if ten other species are willing to take over who cares what the initial speciation might be

cycling in 2020 knows that reef water is teeming with mixed genera that accomplish the task of nh3 oxidation / conversion metabolism free of charge.
 
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