Acrylic to glass adhesive/ Hybrid tank

cmcneil

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i could be wrong but aren't the overflows in our tanks made of acrillic? and aren't they siliconed to the glass? Maybe its just a water seal and not structural but it came to mind.

if your overflow is internal then silicone is fine since it makes a weak seal(not a bond) and water pressure holds the overflow box to the glass.with external overflows on glass tanks,manufactures usually use glass for the overflow and silicone to hold it on.
 

Troylee

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Why not just eurobrace it with glass then? I know when AGE eurobraces their tanks they use a single piece of acrylic. Doing it like that has got to be way more expensive than using a bit of glass. I don't think a 2.5" eurobrace would be enough. Normally eurobraces are 4" on glass tanks.

Agreed use glass if you want it to last... As for a 4" euro brace that all depends on wall thickness and height... The whole whole idea of a euro is derived from saving money on the material thickness from the sides.... There is a few factors involved but I wouldn't risk acrylic to glass for structural bonds.... Use glass and be safe... If anything make a acrylic trim and cap it like a factory tank....hth
 

iani

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AGE doesnt groove the bottom.my buddy has a 4x4x2 rimless that AGE made.the pvc sheet is dattoed at the bottom edge,not groved.the glass is flush with the pvc sheets outer edge and has NO groove.they use a special adhesive to bond the pvc to glass.it isnt silicone but more along the lines of the type of adhesive they use to install windshields in cars.if i recall correctly it is a UV cured adhesive.they also do use acrylic for eurobraces on glass tanks.the adhesive again is a special adhesive and is not silicone.

ianiwane,where are you getting this"normally eurobraces are 4" on glass tanks" from?so your saying that a small glass tank uses 4" eurobraces?the eurobraces size is dependant on the tanks size.there is no standard size.it is based on lenght,width,and height.

You don't normally need to eurobrace small glass tanks. So yes 4" is pretty standard. Yes, they don't make a groove in the PVC. Initially I read acrylic to glass which AGE also does. They make tanks that are acrylic everything except for the front panel. I think I've read in the past that DOW 795 is the sealant to use between pvc and glass.
 

iani

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Agreed use glass if you want it to last... As for a 4" euro brace that all depends on wall thickness and height... The whole whole idea of a euro is derived from saving money on the material thickness from the sides.... There is a few factors involved but I wouldn't risk acrylic to glass for structural bonds.... Use glass and be safe... If anything make a acrylic trim and cap it like a factory tank....hth

So are you saying he should not put at least a 4" eurobrace on that tank?
 

bct15

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I still think using glass or making an acrylic piece that attaches to the tank are your best options. This company has more money to invest in r&d and the pieces are machined with CNC tolerances...i believe you are going to spend way more money trying to do this that has no real benefit over my previously mentioned options, except for more costly and likely to fail.
 

patent

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Well, this makes me think I am headed in the right direction now I just need to "discover" what this adhesive might be? In my, opinion it opens up a whole world of ideas on what can be done with tank construction. I'm not sure if I need to test some different ones and gamble or someone might have an idea of what it could be....

Troy, I think this is an incredibly interesting project, but I need to get a couple more frags from you before you move all your nice corals into this new tank. :bigsmile:

I would personally guess that the majority of adhesives you'd need to do this require some special curing or prepping on the materials, e.g., UV curing, which I'd really hate to try at home.
 
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stuckey_t

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Troy, I think this is an incredibly interesting project, but I need to get a couple more frags from you before you move all your nice corals into this new tank. :bigsmile:

I would personally guess that the majority of adhesives you'd need to do this require some special curing or prepping on the materials, e.g., UV curing, which I'd really hate to try at home.

Trust me, I'm not moving anything into a tank that's not stable :D Thankfully I have some pro helpers/builders on my side! I hate being told I can't do something and when I see it being done elsewhere it makes the detective in me curious:D You're always welcome to come over and hang anytime!
 

Vertical

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Heres a question. Consider this tank 65 x 32 x 24. Now consider the thickness of the bottom 3/4" plus the 1/2" starboard that is going on top of it. Now consider the 3/4" Eurobracing (whatever material is used). Then consider the water level 3" lower than that. Now think about all of that it only leaves us with a 19" water column. Now heres the question with only 19" of water how thick of glass would you need to do a rimless tank? He is using 1/2" glass and from everything I have read that should be plenty. After thinking about that how much actual stuctual support is needed from this Eurobracing?

Just some thought to keep the discussion going.
Casey

PS here is a product that I have seen people using in these types of applications.
E-6000/E-6100 Adhesives: TAP Plastics

Also have seen the before mentioned silicone used.
DOW CORNING® 795 SILICONE BUILDING SEALANT

Another one I have seen used. I know it says not safe for aquariums but I have seen many threads on other boards that claim they have used it for years without issue.
Loctite Epoxy Marine from Loctite Adhesives

Also as mentioned before people have used this with success.
Mr. Sticky's Underwater Glue 57g Auto-Mix - Mr Sticky's Premium Adhesives
 

Troylee

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i have heard rumors of them using weldon 40 " if they do you need a oven to anneal it and bring up to full strength" but i can't and have not confirmed it.... trade secrets hahahahah... the only way we can find out is when a disgruntled employ tells us.... why does it have to be acrylic??? why not go 3/4" all the way around sides and bottom and have a sick rimless??? i personally think euros on glass tanks looks horrible imho. i would go rimless or use glass fwiw.... it's gonna be a real expensive mistake if you go off a hunch.....
Trust me, I'm not moving anything into a tank that's not stable :D Thankfully I have some pro helpers/builders on my side! I hate being told I can't do something and when I see it being done elsewhere it makes the detective in me curious:D You're always welcome to come over and hang anytime!
 

Troylee

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does anyone here own one of these tanks???? from what i just saw on google they build a complete acrylic tank then route the front panel out leaving a picture frame and put the glass behind it like a plywood tank.... that was there original design anyways i don't know what they do today lol....
 
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stuckey_t

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i have heard rumors of them using weldon 40 " if they do you need a oven to anneal it and bring up to full strength" but i can't and have not confirmed it.... trade secrets hahahahah... the only way we can find out is when a disgruntled employ tells us.... why does it have to be acrylic??? why not go 3/4" all the way around sides and bottom and have a sick rimless??? i personally think euros on glass tanks looks horrible imho. i would go rimless or use glass fwiw.... it's gonna be a real expensive mistake if you go off a hunch.....

When you say euros on glass tanks look horrible are you talking acrylic eurobracing, glass bracing, or both? Right now I have glass bracing on my 325 starfire tank and it looks fine other than the fact that it takes up 5 inches of space from the edge all the way around. My biggest problem if I go with glass bracing again is I lose 10 inches from my 32 inch width. I am trying to fit a full size lumenarc flanked by a T5 on each side and a reefbrite strip on each side. I'm not sure I have enough width to cram all that lighting in widthwise....
 

Troylee

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well i shouldn't say all of them i only saw a couple leemar tanks with a glass euro and it was inset in the walls not on top just looked kinda cheesy to me not a real clean look.... guess i should have been more clear...lol
why would you lose 10" you plan on a 5" glass one or a 2.5" acrylic??? glass is stronger for a euro than acrylic for what your wanting to do.... i would say a 3" glass euro would work just fine imho... your walls are pretty thick so the deflection rate isn't to severe....
 
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stuckey_t

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well i shouldn't say all of them i only saw a couple leemar tanks with a glass euro and it was inset in the walls not on top just looked kinda cheesy to me not a real clean look.... guess i should have been more clear...lol
why would you lose 10" you plan on a 5" glass one or a 2.5" acrylic??? glass is stronger for a euro than acrylic for what your wanting to do.... i would say a 3" glass euro would work just fine imho... your walls are pretty thick so the deflection rate isn't to severe....

I was going to have 2.5" acrylic cut and fixed to this current tank so the bracing wasn't so wide. The 5" glass I currently have, and is currently on the bigger tank. I was thinking I could take the bracing from the old tank and trim it to be the brace on the new tank. Can only trim the bracing lengthwise though and can not get it narrower than 5" without ruining it. I suppose my best bet would be to order new glass if I could get it at 3" from somewhere custom. Mabye glasscages or miracles? It would be sweet if this new tank could go rimless and not worry about eurobracing the top period but with 1/2" glass I don't think it is strong enough...so back to bracing the top
 

Justin D

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The glass to the bottom PVC when they use these UV light to melt the silicone adhesive to the bottom I looked into this before it's going to be way too hard
 

Justin D

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I don't recommend acrylic to glass for structural purposes age uses a UV light for their adhesive otherwise it's going to fail
 

Troylee

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There really isn't much that's reef safe to glue acrylic to glass.. Weldon 40 works to a extent but I wouldn't trust it down the road... If it's just plastic baffles in a glass dump silicone is fine it might pop down the road but it won't be a diasaster or anything
 

TaylorPilot

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I have done a little research into this in the past. Long and short is that it is well beyond the basic DIY to attach glass to acrylic or PVC in the manner you are talking about. They use a UV curable epoxy that hardens instantly after exposed. There are companies that make the stuff you can buy in small quantities, but it is prohibitively expensive, and none would guarantee that it was "reef safe". You are going to have a very hard time getting any of these manufactures to give you much information, because PVC bottom tanks are their bread and butter. I would use glass strips and momentive silicone. Silicone it all together, let it dry, then use a razor to clean up.
 

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