Advice on next steps with treatment - been treating for flukes but might be ich?

[Djmac]

Hi all,

I've been Hospital Tank-ing a Harlequin Tuskfish, Lime Green Wrasse and a Corination cod/grouper since 21st Feb with the suspicion of flukes in the grouper due to flashing (original post - https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/flashing-caused-by-nitrates.967709).

23rd Feb first dose praziquantel, then another dose 4th March. I havent seen any improvement, if anything things are getting worse with the Tuskfish looking worse for wear at times, then perking up when disturbed (eg feeding/etc). The grouper hasn't been eating at all, the tuskfish and lime wrasse have both been eating.

Today I noticed some white spots on the tuskfish, they were very hard to see and only when the light hits in the right way. He doesnt really sit still so it makes it hard to get a good look. My wife managed to get a few decent pictures of the spots (only good shots in 30-40 pics).

Any recommendations on course of action? I was prepping for another dose of prazi today, but I'm not sure if it could be Ich (and I should be switching to copper). There is a possibility that it could be sand, the HT is bare bottom with a plastic container of sand for the lime wrasse and there is a little bit of loose sand floating around on the bottom (not a huge amount).

The grouper hasn't got any white spots that I can see. I really appreciate all the help.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What are the water quality readings for the QT (ammonia especially)?

The grouper not eating, but not having spots tends to rule out ich with that fish.

The spots on the wrasse look more like mucus spots than ich - but these is possibly ich mixed in there somewhere.

Does the lime green wrasse have any symptoms?

You may want to consider prazi and coppersafe at the same time - not the best in terms of causing stress, but you may need to run both at the same time.

Jay

 

[Djmac]

Ph 8.1
Ammonia 0ppm (API test kit)
Nitrates 50ppm
Phosphate 0.5ppm

Lime wrasse seems fine when he is out, he's quite a bit smaller than his tank mates (not sure if thats why he's spending more time buried in the sand or not).

Cheers

 

[Jay Hemdal]

With the water testing good, your options seems to point to doing the final prazi treatment and then starting up with coppersafe at a full dose.

Jay

 

[Djmac]

I forgot to mention that the nitrate and phosphate were salifert. Do those numbers look ok? I added some microbacter 7 on weekend just gone and initially added some biopro bacteria balls from another tank to seed it when I setup the HT on 21st Feb. But I'm assuming the Prazi would have taken out a lot of the bacteria?

Should I wait until after the prazi dose (after the 20% water change after two days) to start copper?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Nitrate and phosphate don’t matter in a QT with fish.
I would change 20% after 24 hours and then get the copper to full dose in 12 hours. The Hanna Checker is best, but you can use the API copper test if you have a really good eye for reading colors.
Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

Agree- Phosphate has little impact on fish and there is both organic phosphate and inorganic phosphates. Prazi wont have much impact on bacteria but it does have small impact on oxygen and appetite so do add oxygen with an air stone

 

[Djmac]

Unfortunately the corination grouper didnt make it (lost him this morning). I havent started treating for copper yet, I'm I not sure thats the correct way forward. I cant see any evidence of white spots at all.

The tuskfish's appears to have issues with its eyes. They look ?cloudy? and are shedding tissue or mucus? Is this a symptom of Neobenedenia? I had thought after 3 doses of prazi that would be unlikely but I'm not sure.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Probably a secondary bacterial infection from a primary fluke or ich infection. As I had said, the tuskfish had definite spots, some looked like mucus, others could not be ruled out as ich. When ich has infected a fish for some time, it becomes what I call "stale ich" and it does not look like the distinct white salt grain spots that everyone is used to seeing.

Can you post videos of both remaining fish?

Jay

 

[Djmac]

I didnt expect the tuskfish to make it overnight but he's still hanging in there. He's been sitting next to the pump return since yesterday.

The lime wrasse was a bit hard to capture, he's pretty active. Let me know if you need a better video of either of them.

Thanks again for all your help.

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[Jay Hemdal]

I didnt expect the tuskfish to make it overnight but he's still hanging in there. He's been sitting next to the pump return since yesterday.

The lime wrasse was a bit hard to capture, he's pretty active. Let me know if you need a better video of either of them.

Thanks again for all your help.

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The lime green looks pretty good overall. The tuskfish still has a couple of spots, but they are the large ones, so not ich. Given the history or prazi, I cannot imagine there are many/any active flukes. That pretty much leaves a secondary bacterial infection on the tuskfish....I'm not sure what else it could be. Trouble is, tuskfish are delicate in the best of instances. If you dose antibiotics to this tank, I'm not sure if it would help....

What meds do you have on hand?

jay

 

[Djmac]

Reef revolution copper
Blue planet praziquantel
Api pimafix antifungal (bay oil)
Api ammo lock

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Reef revolution copper
Blue planet praziquantel
Api pimafix antifungal (bay oil)
Api ammo lock

Ah, I was hoping you had some antibiotics.
Jay

 

[Djmac]

I got a few more videos, he's swimming around but bumping into a lot of things.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I got a few more videos, he's swimming around but bumping into a lot of things.

With both eyes that cloudy, it has having difficulty seeing where to swim. That creates a vicious cycle: more bumps means more damage, and it can’t see to eat.
Even antibiotic treatment probably won’t help - antibiotics take 3-5 days to work.
I don’t have a solution for you here, sorry.
Jay

 

[Djmac]

Thanks Jay, I dont expect he's going ot pull thru. He's looking pretty bad at the moment.

For the lime wrasse I assume I should do 35 days of monitoring in isolation/QT to make sure he doesnt develop symptoms? The display tank will have been 35 days fallow on 28th Mar.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks Jay, I dont expect he's going ot pull thru. He's looking pretty bad at the moment.

For the lime wrasse I assume I should do 35 days of monitoring in isolation/QT to make sure he doesnt develop symptoms? The display tank will have been 35 days fallow on 28th Mar.

Since I wasn't able to nail down what the issue was here, a 60 day fallow period would be safer....

Jay