Aggressive in DT direct application of H2O2 n bryopsis

carri10

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Hello all
Just for info.

I discovered some bryopsis growing in/around my GSP.
The tank is ~1000l, so I don’t want things getting out of hand.
First up, 10 days ago, I pulled out as much as I could with tweezers. Often getting a lot of ‘stem’ below the ‘leaf’ part, so was hopeful I had some of the holdfasts.
Today, patch had doubled in size to maybe 20-30 fronds. Decided to get heavy on it. Given it was around the GSP, which is a fast grower, I decided to pull as much as I could then directly squirt 20mls of 30% H2O2 on and around the patch of bryopsis.

For historical record, I’ll let you all know what happened.

Here is a photo immediately afterwards.
I’d previously waved the GSP to retract polyps.


I’ll take another photo tomorrow to see any collateral damage and then follow-up if it worked.

(Honestly, my tank is nowhere near as blue as this, any hints to get a more reasonable photo from my iPhone?)

IMG_4015.jpeg
 

*GAREEF*

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As far as the H202, my experience is make sure it doesn’t have a tin stabilizer in it.
As far as bryopsis, in the past I’ve used elevated magnesium and having enough fish and inverts to disturb substrate and rock work.
Even if they don’t eat it they will dislodge it.
Not sure if it was one or the other or both together that worked for me, but it always worked.
 
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carri10

carri10

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This can be such an unforgiving hobby.
20 minutes after the peroxide treatment, I took a look in the tank and found my beautiful blood red shrimp upside down and dead.
Went to read the ingredients of the hydrogen peroxide, and listed was sodium stagnate. A quick Google search and Wikipedia tells me it is a tin based stabiliser.

I now have a bag of Cuprasorb in front of one of my main flow pumps in the display tank to absorb as much as I can.

I’m so annoyed with myself. I should’ve read the instructions, but (no excuse) I was finishing the Christmas shopping and having to take the children to one of their friends and I had about 20 minutes to try and deal with the Beto psi’s. Everything in this hobby requires careful planning, and every time you rush it goes wrong.

Let’s hope the urchins/brittles/ snails and corals aren’t effected.
 

brandon429

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Carri luckily this is well studied

Your shrimp lost was #1 on our predicted loss list, i use 35% and have written about it endlessly for reefing/hth ease concern


No ingredients did this

Remove that prefilter take no action

Peroxide degraded four hours after application
 

*GAREEF*

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This can be such an unforgiving hobby.
20 minutes after the peroxide treatment, I took a look in the tank and found my beautiful blood red shrimp upside down and dead.
Went to read the ingredients of the hydrogen peroxide, and listed was sodium stagnate. A quick Google search and Wikipedia tells me it is a tin based stabiliser.

I now have a bag of Cuprasorb in front of one of my main flow pumps in the display tank to absorb as much as I can.

I’m so annoyed with myself. I should’ve read the instructions, but (no excuse) I was finishing the Christmas shopping and having to take the children to one of their friends and I had about 20 minutes to try and deal with the Beto psi’s. Everything in this hobby requires careful planning, and every time you rush it goes wrong.

Let’s hope the urchins/brittles/ snails and corals aren’t effected.
Water change and not sure but wouldn’t hurt to add a little granulated activated carbon.
I know your pain I went through the h202 experience myself.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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There is zero, zero chemistry action you need to take and any further action perceived against peroxide becomes the harm: your source of concern is simply dying target cells left to degrade


But you have many liters in dilution


Simple tank water changes are ok, it's to export cellular components the actual peroxide is not an issue

There are no stabilizers that harm reefing. You have ten years of data showing it's never inquired about, it's simply something Randy posted one day then we continued amassing about 7500 jobs still not inquiring about it. I'm not saying those stabilizers are good for reefs: I'm saying they're diluted such that no reef, even tiny pico reefs, need to factor it.


Not burning your eye with the powerful peroxide was the real careful part, it's physically so so dangerous to have in a home. If there are any kiddos with little paws who might get curious about that bottle: throw it out

by rule i wouldn't keep 35% in fridge till my kid was about 12 and dang understood some chemistry (don't touch this bottle)

Take no action: look how many peroxide tanks we've worked and this is only two of twenty threads:




notice every job: safe no crashes

shrimp were lost, we expected. Yours isn't lysmata but it's a cousin and equally susceptible

The one thing we evolved to do differently was to make the tank free of algae first, by hand, hours of hard work however then when no algae: you dose for growback prevention

You were dosing for removal, that puts cellular compounds in the water and even if you didn't change water there's no other sensitives to concern.

Using a knife to scrape off all algae and dislodge it, anchors and all just like dentistry precision, then 35% after, it's powerful. That method saved my tank it wouldn't be as old as it is without 35% it just needs aimed differently
 
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*GAREEF*

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Carri luckily this is well studied

Your shrimp lost was #1 on our predicted loss list, i use 35% and have written about it endlessly for reefing/hth ease concern


No ingredients did this

Remove that prefilter take no action

Peroxide degraded four hours after application
This was my tin level after using the wrong grade of h202.
IMG_0163.jpeg

This can be such an unforgiving hobby.
20 minutes after the peroxide treatment, I took a look in the tank and found my beautiful blood red shrimp upside down and dead.
Went to read the ingredients of the hydrogen peroxide, and listed was sodium stagnate. A quick Google search and Wikipedia tells me it is a tin based stabiliser.

I now have a bag of Cuprasorb in front of one of my main flow pumps in the display tank to absorb as much as I can.

I’m so annoyed with myself. I should’ve read the instructions, but (no excuse) I was finishing the Christmas shopping and having to take the children to one of their friends and I had about 20 minutes to try and deal with the Beto psi’s. Everything in this hobby requires careful planning, and every time you rush it goes wrong.

Let’s hope the urchins/brittles/ snails and corals aren’t affected.
This was my tin level after my use of the wrong grade of h202.
IMG_0163.jpeg
 

brandon429

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The reason i posted that wasn't to infodump:) It was to reassure bc I know a crashing reef at Christmas isn't ideal. It will be OK plus we'll use this thread eventually as a remediation reference anyway.

Planning like a medical patient/ your reef tank


Try and lift out any rocks you've hit with it, and do surgical knifetip rasping to excise all that graying matter off, rinse it away, set back clean rock. That removes the decay, just like we're treating a burn wound.

That's a pic of an oxidizer burn wound above, it was a good move we'll just reorder some things


Leaving bry in place was unacceptable

Last tip: don't feel rushed to change/ attain tons of emergency water no crash is impending, just change what you can matching temp and salinity. The real trick is lowering your light levels

A little less intensity over next 4 days, like a slight cloud session over natural reefs

A break from hard bright hot lighting is the key hidden bleach preventer only if things look stressed.


Fish are not in risk here. Let's see a full tank pic.
 

brandon429

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We don't factor what tin reads



People have been posting those high icp tin levels for a decade, vinyl tubing was also found to raise it.

In all the tanks worked on I've allocated tin levels to the don't need to know pile, under nitrite interestingly. That's #1 never need to know in reefing

I promise this isn't to flame for sure. My own tank has received 10x more 35% peroxide than any tank around I'm sure my tin levels are through the roof

Perx has simply been a fascinating 12 yr hyperfocus in this case that'll come in handy here for outcome predictions.

I want everyone reading to have a merry Christmas we're all quite blessed to be reefing here today heart emoji.
 

Tamberav

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I also went hard on bryopsis. This is the entire rock in a peroxide bath with an acro just chilling out of it.

Once the bryopsis was nuked, it became palatable for algae eaters. I added 6 emerald crabs right to the rocks after.

Shrimp are definitely sensitive to peroxide, I doubt it was the tin. They will go belly up if enough is added.

I got lucky and now have a yellow tang that eats it.

IMG_6045.png
 
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carri10

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@brandon429
Thanks for reply. So, just for me to be clear…
You are saying that the shrimp death is only related to the application of 30% h2o2 and not to any other ingredients in the solution.

Also, I’d read a little about manual work first and had done a bit, but I take your point.
Some of your posts have been quite informative, thanks.

I’m about nine months into this hobby, and one of the things I am finding frequently is that conclusions, or hobby generally accepted recommendations, are actually quite hard to find in amongst many many pages of threads
I feel like I need to take a year off work and create a book based on all the hobby agreed best practice!
 

*GAREEF*

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We don't care what tin reads

That's why we will never factor it in my gigantic work threads where we do peroxide work live time

People have been posting those high icp tin levels for a decade, vinyl tubing was also found to raise it. At no time in the future of my reef tank troubleshoot will i ever factor someone's tin levels. I'd sooner want to know their helium levels.

I promise this isn't to flame for sure. My own tank has received 10x more 35% peroxide than any tank around I'm sure my tin levels are through the roof

Perx has simply been a fascinating 12 yr hyperfocus in this case that'll come in handy

I want everyone reading to have a merry Christmas we're all quite blessed to be reefing here today heart emoji.
Very interesting thanks and merry Christmas to you too.
For what it’s worth I dosed 3% antiseptic grade h202 4ml per 40 gallons everyday for a week.
Noticed stn, polyps contracted and color fade and stopped using it, as it was the only thing different that I had been doing.
Sent in a icp came back with the elevated tin. Then I ran cooprzorb, carbon and started doing water changes. Corals healed and still doing well minus a few that discolored but are looking better everyday.
Maybe like you said it had nothing to do with the tin levels.
 
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carri10

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I also went hard on bryopsis. This is the entire rock in a peroxide bath with an acro just chilling out of it.

Once the bryopsis was nuked, it became palatable for algae eaters. I added 6 emerald crabs right to the rocks after.

Shrimp are definitely sensitive to peroxide, I doubt it was the tin. They will go belly up if enough is added.

I got lucky and now have a yellow tang that eats it.

IMG_6045.png
Glad it worked. I wanted to try in tank treatment, as getting the rock out wasn’t fitting with getting life organised. It would be a couple of hours to get it out and back in, as it is epoxied to another section of rock work.

If it comes back, I’ll need to go that route. Also, the Bryopsis is growing in my GSP, so I’ll have to research the h2o2 that is safe for that.
 
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carri10

carri10

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We don't factor what tin reads



People have been posting those high icp tin levels for a decade, vinyl tubing was also found to raise it.

In all the tanks worked on I've allocated tin levels to the don't need to know pile, under nitrite interestingly. That's #1 never need to know in reefing

I promise this isn't to flame for sure. My own tank has received 10x more 35% peroxide than any tank around I'm sure my tin levels are through the roof

Perx has simply been a fascinating 12 yr hyperfocus in this case that'll come in handy here for outcome predictions.

I want everyone reading to have a merry Christmas we're all quite blessed to be reefing here today heart emoji.
not taking it as flame at all. Always looking to learn, so thanks for input
 

brandon429

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Sick spot treatment pic, that’s truly forcing compliance. That rock will look like a white tooth soon


Air accessing large reefs to save huge chemistry risks:


Shut off the whole reef

Drain it down into brutes, from Home Depot, cleaned ones


Then the whole thing is in the air, you still reach in and rasp it clean with a knife first. You can then attach a long quarter inch vinyl flex hose from depot and tape the other end into a common vacuum cleaner

Then you have a precision uptake dentist tool to remove the plaques you’re scraping from your reef teeth while the rocks are exposed to air, it’s the gummy stuff plaque you’re removing from the reef coral gumline until more natural means are found


The key in long term reefing is to absolutely nuke any growths that could take your tank I thought your initial approach was spot on.

You recognized bryopsis as one, and set a very valuable piece to burn off the skeletal parts and didn’t expose the corals, that’s very precision like we did above. You did external that looks so good there above. I believe magnesium can regulate it no joke they did that for fifteen years straight in the hobby






Do drain dentistry, if your sandbed is old you need to reconsider as this is a big pump - back of water that can stir things up, which also means having sand is an inherent block to cpr emergency tank access, should you ever need it.


We should remove it if it’s that dirty. But if the system can handle a simple drain out, pump back in (leaving the lower light 1/3 for the fish to swim in for sure as you work above them) this is the least impactful most safest most effective way, all other ways are you altering major coral chemistry. Our way doesn’t it’s physicality instead, chem holds steady. It’s all one big water change sim split up in different ways.
 
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carri10

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This is two days later.
First day, the GSP was completely retracted.
Today, it’s carrying on as if nothing ever happened.
Some Coraline went bright orange and then rapidly does off.

Not sure if the Bryopsis is gone, will likely need to wait a week to see if I have anymore fronds.

I’ll let you all know. Happy Christmas!

IMG_4028.jpeg
 

stevelee

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Hello all
Just for info.

I discovered some bryopsis growing in/around my GSP.
The tank is ~1000l, so I don’t want things getting out of hand.
First up, 10 days ago, I pulled out as much as I could with tweezers. Often getting a lot of ‘stem’ below the ‘leaf’ part, so was hopeful I had some of the holdfasts.
Today, patch had doubled in size to maybe 20-30 fronds. Decided to get heavy on it. Given it was around the GSP, which is a fast grower, I decided to pull as much as I could then directly squirt 20mls of 30% H2O2 on and around the patch of bryopsis.

For historical record, I’ll let you all know what happened.

Here is a photo immediately afterwards.
I’d previously waved the GSP to retract polyps.


I’ll take another photo tomorrow to see any collateral damage and then follow-up if it worked.

(Honestly, my tank is nowhere near as blue as this, any hints to get a more reasonable photo from my iPhone?)
Ant farms and ant nests for sale
IMG_4015.jpeg
So last night after talking to a couple people and deciding to try Peroxide to get rid of some spotty hair algae. After I realized it was coming out like pieces of felt or something it was so thick.

I used a syringe and targeted local areas of algae. My question is how much should I use per spot and how often? I have a patch that ive been working on for a while that isolated to 1 rock(probably leeching PO4 or something else) Once I started removing it I accidently had a small bit get inbetween 2 rocks. So now I have a spot that I really cant reach to pull out of tank growing it.

I want to use Peroxide for a period then use a Chemiclean treatment or 2 then go to using Rowaphos again. I do not have a GFO reactor and honestly my tank is a 17.4g undrilled I have nowhere to put a reactor.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

I use a BRS 5 stage RoDi I will be upgrading next week to a Chloro filter set of filters. I checked last night when making water and im getting 1tds in outbound water so I am guessing that could be part of the problem.
 
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carri10

carri10

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Here’s the punch line. Bryopsis grew back :-(.
Back to manual removal for a bit.
 

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