AI Prime vs Kessil a360x + Narrow reflector + Dongle - IM 25 Lagoon

[Luna Lagoona]

So like the title says. I don't often see a comparison between the two lights all that often.

This is also my first post so hi!

I know this might be an "apples to oranges" sorta thing, but I have an IM 25 Lagoon 24" x 20" x 12" (hence the username haha) and it came with an AI prime 16HD and while it seems pretty good I have always been a Kessil girl. I see a lot of posts about how just using Kessils people can't grow SPS and part of me wants to prove that wrong. I have been getting reasonable growth with my AI prime for my bird's nest and zoas but the color really isn't there for me in my corals and I am likely not using the best spectrum etc. (Current a modified Pirates of the Caribbean setting from the facebook group with a little more white)

Overall my goals are to maintain a mixed reef with a few select sticks near the top but it will be heavy LPS.

I really want to get the a360x and see if I can make it work but it's just SOOO expensive for what might end up being a very similar light to what I have currently, and with one light source shadowing might still be an issue. Based on my research if I want to yoink some more par from my light I can also grab the narrow reflector and mount things a little higher (which would be my preference anyway as I have my prime 11" from the water surface for better distribution and to avoid splashing etc. (Also with a shallow lagoon you want those top down views without the light fixture in the way.

I am looking at about 960$ shipped for a single Kessil A360x + Dongle + hard mount + reflector... which IS steep to do what I am functionally already doing... but with flair?! ;Cat haha For that price I am also getting closer to the price of an AP9X... but let's forget that for the moment haha

Honestly, I would have a bigger tank but for the next year or two I am stuck with 25gals as my upper limit so the Lagoon maximized my footprint for the water volume. I would ideally like to get a 4-5' tank (possibly also shallow lagoon-style like the SR 80 or 120) in the next year or two so this will be part of a larger light setup/upgrade down the road.

So really my question is:

• Do you think I will have better coral growth with the new light? (I know light isn't the only factor, but assuming all else is equal)
• Do you think I should make the upgrade in the first place?
  • Do you think I will have buyers remorse lawl?
• Do you think the coloration of my corals will improve?
• Do you think I am crazy to even consider this?
  
  
  If I ever go Ham on the SPS down the road I would be open to adding a reef brite strip just for fill light or something.
  
  The other thing is if I don't do this I will likely always wonder "what if?" I do also have a chance to get a Gen 4 Radeon Xr30 for around 400-600 dollars from my LFS but I think with the kinds of tanks I am getting I want to go for quality over quantity in terms of PAR/Spectrum.
  
  Below is some "Par pics" for comparable lights.
  
  
  
  
  
  Reflector fun times
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Finally, I do have a bonus that came through recently so this is semi "free money" which is why I am even considering this, but I could be getting other things for the tank too like ATO, better heater, and return pump as well.
  
  Congrats on making it to the end! PS. If anyone has some "Kessil only" lit tank photos they want to drop in here to help reassure me I wouldn't say no!

 

[VanDalsenReef]

Do kessil all the way.

 

[VanDalsenReef]

So like the title says. I don't often see a comparison between the two lights all that often.

This is also my first post so hi!

I know this might be an "apples to oranges" sorta thing, but I have an IM 25 Lagoon 24" x 20" x 12" (hence the username haha) and it came with an AI prime 16HD and while it seems pretty good I have always been a Kessil girl. I see a lot of posts about how just using Kessils people can't grow SPS and part of me wants to prove that wrong. I have been getting reasonable growth with my AI prime for my bird's nest and zoas but the color really isn't there for me in my corals and I am likely not using the best spectrum etc. (Current a modified Pirates of the Caribbean setting from the facebook group with a little more white)

Overall my goals are to maintain a mixed reef with a few select sticks near the top but it will be heavy LPS.

I really want to get the a360x and see if I can make it work but it's just SOOO expensive for what might end up being a very similar light to what I have currently, and with one light source shadowing might still be an issue. Based on my research if I want to yoink some more par from my light I can also grab the narrow reflector and mount things a little higher (which would be my preference anyway as I have my prime 11" from the water surface for better distribution and to avoid splashing etc. (Also with a shallow lagoon you want those top down views without the light fixture in the way.

I am looking at about 960$ shipped for a single Kessil A360x + Dongle + hard mount + reflector... which IS steep to do what I am functionally already doing... but with flair?! ;Cat haha For that price I am also getting closer to the price of an AP9X... but let's forget that for the moment haha

Honestly, I would have a bigger tank but for the next year or two I am stuck with 25gals as my upper limit so the Lagoon maximized my footprint for the water volume. I would ideally like to get a 4-5' tank (possibly also shallow lagoon-style like the SR 80 or 120) in the next year or two so this will be part of a larger light setup/upgrade down the road.

So really my question is:

• Do you think I will have better coral growth with the new light? (I know light isn't the only factor, but assuming all else is equal)
• Do you think I should make the upgrade in the first place?
  • Do you think I will have buyers remorse lawl?
• Do you think the coloration of my corals will improve?
• Do you think I am crazy to even consider this?
  
  
  If I ever go Ham on the SPS down the road I would be open to adding a reef brite strip just for fill light or something.
  
  The other thing is if I don't do this I will likely always wonder "what if?" I do also have a chance to get a Gen 4 Radeon Xr30 for around 400-600 dollars from my LFS but I think with the kinds of tanks I am getting I want to go for quality over quantity in terms of PAR/Spectrum.
  
  Below is some "Par pics" for comparable lights.
  
  
  
  
  
  Reflector fun times
  
  
  
  
  
  
  Finally, I do have a bonus that came through recently so this is semi "free money" which is why I am even considering this, but I could be getting other things for the tank too like ATO, better heater, and return pump as well.
  
  Congrats on making it to the end! PS. If anyone has some "Kessil only" lit tank photos they want to drop in here to help reassure me I wouldn't say no!

They grow sps. I did only kessil for years and years.

 

[uhgster1]

I’ve been reefing for bit now, and honestly it’s more of a brands/aesthetic that preference thing. I’ve been using AIs for over 5 years now and based on my experience and knowledge painfully gained from multiple sources, I truly believe that nutrients will determine how colorful or not your corals will be. I’ve seen enough setups to notice that if you have poorly colored coral the light setup can help you make up for it. But if your coral is happy and healthy, almost any light will make them look good. I have a 65 gallon and a 13.5 gallon reef, both mixed and both running AI primes. Give the light you have a little more time and make sure that your stability is rock solid and you might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Spare time]

Have you considered adding the actinic reef brite's to your prime? That would add some pop.

 

[Luna Lagoona]

I’ve been reefing for bit now, and honestly it’s more of a brands/aesthetic that preference thing. I’ve been using AIs for over 5 years now and based on my experience and knowledge painfully gained from multiple sources, I truly believe that nutrients will determine how colorful or not your corals will be. I’ve seen enough setups to notice that if you have poorly colored coral the light setup can help you make up for it. But if your coral is happy and healthy, almost any light will make them look good. I have a 65 gallon and a 13.5 gallon reef, both mixed and both running AI primes. Give the light you have a little more time and make sure that your stability is rock solid and you might be pleasantly surprised.

These are some beautiful tanks and colors!

I take your point on the nutrients too. I'm ordering some Hanna checkers for alk and ca then will be monitoring to see if u have to start dosing... But I'd again like to see if I can run a system with just water changes but we'll see how practical that remains.

I haven't thought about adding the reef brites to the prime.

Ideally I'd like to keep things to just a single or two if the same kind fixture.

That way my results could be specific to that model as a reference for folks.

 

[Spare time]

These are some beautiful tanks and colors!

I take your point on the nutrients too. I'm ordering some Hanna checkers for alk and ca then will be monitoring to see if u have to start dosing... But I'd again like to see if I can run a system with just water changes but we'll see how practical that remains.

I haven't thought about adding the reef brites to the prime.

Ideally I'd like to keep things to just a single or two if the same kind fixture.

That way my results could be specific to that model as a reference for folks.

PS you need distilled (NOT Rodi) water for the hanna calcium checker for part of the test


Ah I also just realized the kit for reef brite I was thinking only works for the hydras in AI's line up.

 

[Kfactor]

kessil all the way with my bad luck with ai i will never buy another one .

 

[Sean Clark]

Kessil "logic" is simple and intuitive. They make it so you can't screw it up. Great lights.

 

[Kmst80]

These are some beautiful tanks and colors!

I take your point on the nutrients too. I'm ordering some Hanna checkers for alk and ca then will be monitoring to see if u have to start dosing... But I'd again like to see if I can run a system with just water changes but we'll see how practical that remains.

I haven't thought about adding the reef brites to the prime.

Ideally I'd like to keep things to just a single or two if the same kind fixture.

That way my results could be specific to that model as a reference for folks.

I wouldn't recommend the Hanna calcium checker, you need to be a chemist to use it . I 've been using it for the last 5 month and only worked out now all readings were off by a lot. By the way I am german...we are very precise...lol... but still couldn't work the Hanna. Just my experience though

 

[HB AL]

Kessils don't grow acropora's or any other type of coral

 

[HB AL]

Kessils don't grow any type of corals especially acropora's

 

[Waynerock]

Primes work good for me. Softy’s, LPS and SPS all growing like weeds and happy

 

[Luna Lagoona]

Really nice coral here and grats on the growth with the primes Waynerock!

Hard to argue with the success I am seeing here HB AL

Kmst80 I lost the genetic lottery so am partially colorblind. So the other color tests are a lot harder for me to use I find. What makes the hanna checker so difficult? I usually hear it's a lot easier.

 

[tharbin]

Welcome to R2R!

I'm using an AI Prime 16HD on a 15 gallon and it is okay. It will grow montis at least. If I could afford it, I'd use Kessil but the AI is a pretty solid budget choice. But... I don't think either of them is really going to work well by itself on a 24" tank. If it were me I would try to get the AP9X.

 

[Luna Lagoona]

...I don't think either of them is really going to work well by itself on a 24" tank. If it were me I would try to get the AP9X.

Why do you say that? Just because I should have two light sources/pucks? I do think the AP9X is a great fixture and "technically" could afford it but it's overkill for this tank and I can't put the narrow reflectors on it if I wanted to either. For the size I feel like I would end up with a lot of light spills as well.

I am actually fortunate that I had a line to chat with Thomas from BRS and he also suggested that I go with the a360x over the AP9X which was actually my original target light. I thought the ap9x would have helped with the future-proofing more. I love that everything is all in one fixture and has wifi out of the gate and if I will end up needing a 2nd light anyway it's slightly more cost-effective to get that vs the two a360x.

However, with the a360x I have more flexibility over what 2nd light I get, and if I get a 2nd light I can also control the placement better vs having a fixed distance.

The 360x are designed for a 24x24 square and with my tank dimensions being within the 24x20 and most of my coral being inside a 20x18 foot print it feels like the a360x (possibly with the narrow reflector) makes the most sense.

He also suggested that while future-proofing is good, "Buy for the tank you have, not what you think you are going to have" which is good advice because down the road I don't know exactly the dimension of tank I will end up with but having one 360x (plus reflector options) gives me a solid foundation for just about any tank size to at least light half of it.

Overall he had a lot of great advice, gotta love being able to draw on the experience of having owned literally ALL the possible contenders/fixtures, and the advice I have gotten here has been excellent as well!

 

[tharbin]

Why do you say that? Just because I should have two light sources/pucks? I do think the AP9X is a great fixture and "technically" could afford it but it's overkill for this tank and I can't put the narrow reflectors on it if I wanted to either. For the size I feel like I would end up with a lot of light spills as well.

I am actually fortunate that I had a line to chat with Thomas from BRS and he also suggested that I go with the a360x over the AP9X which was actually my original target light. I thought the ap9x would have helped with the future-proofing more. I love that everything is all in one fixture and has wifi out of the gate and if I will end up needing a 2nd light anyway it's slightly more cost-effective to get that vs the two a360x.

However, with the a360x I have more flexibility over what 2nd light I get, and if I get a 2nd light I can also control the placement better vs having a fixed distance.

The 360x are designed for a 24x24 square and with my tank dimensions being within the 24x20 and most of my coral being inside a 20x18 foot print it feels like the a360x (possibly with the narrow reflector) makes the most sense.

He also suggested that while future-proofing is good, "Buy for the tank you have, not what you think you are going to have" which is good advice because down the road I don't know exactly the dimension of tank I will end up with but having one 360x (plus reflector options) gives me a solid foundation for just about any tank size to at least light half of it.

Overall he had a lot of great advice, gotta love being able to draw on the experience of having owned literally ALL the possible contenders/fixtures, and the advice I have gotten here has been excellent as well!

For me, I don't consider one ai prime sufficient for 24" I would have two. The 360x is probably okay but kind of at the edge of its range. Nothing to do with the quality of either light there is only so much useable spread from a puck. You could certainly go with one 360x on the 24 and add another if you go larger or want to put more demanding corals toward the edges of the spread but I would not go with one prime. The 9x is a bit of overkill but less expensive then two 360Xs. So if a wider tank is a relative certainty I would either overbuy now or get one 360x with the idea to add a second if you upsize. That said it would be hard to go wrong following Thomas' advice.

 

[Spare time]

I wouldn't recommend the Hanna calcium checker, you need to be a chemist to use it . I 've been using it for the last 5 month and only worked out now all readings were off by a lot. By the way I am german...we are very precise...lol... but still couldn't work the Hanna. Just my experience though

We're you using distilled water during the process? It's annoying but hanna says that rodi water does not work for part of the test (I can't remember which step)

 

[HB AL]

So I had 3 tanks running till last July when my 180g came in. A 28g, 50g, and my 90g, the 180g was going in my bedroom where the 90g was located. I had 4 360we's, 4 360x's and a few 160we's, I installed all 8 360's on the new 180g just because why not. Now it is total overkill but figured they would work better on the tank than sitting in a box. Shading is not an issue, and with 8 on the tank I get some really cool aesthetically pleasing different color combinations. Here's a pic of the lights.

 

[Kmst80]

We're you using distilled water during the process? It's annoying but hanna says that rodi water does not work for part of the test (I can't remember which step)

No i haven't used distilled water because hanna states to use deionized water and since i have 2 di filters on my rodi unit i was under the impression thats fine. The booklet clearly states deionized water.