Alk monitors - What are you hoping to see?

[dragon99]

Priorities for me:
Accuracy, obviously
Precision (consistent results)
No-vendor lock in (for reagents or monitoring). It appears all of the solutions are using pH titration, so in theory I should be able to buy a standard acid and off the shelf pH probe as needed.


Cost is going to be the last consideration, because there isn't getting around the complexity of these devices. Reliability/warranty support is going to be critical for something that's going to cost so much upfront.

 

[sinekal]

thanks for the replies!

 

[MaddyP]

Assuming perfect accuracy of each (which won't be the case), one user difference is that the CO2 measurement one can be almost continuous reading and creates no liquid waste. It also obviously can tell you pH and CO2 in addition to alk, for folks who might care.

Randy, with your explanation this seems the logical path to develop a cost effective, continuous monitor for alkalinity. Most advanced hobbyists already have temp and ph probes, requiring only the purchase of a Co2 probe. Calculations could be done on server side (Apex Fusion/myGHL). So my question, why do you think manufacturers are going the route of titration instead of this alternative?

 

[sinekal]

Why such a high accuracy requirement? Does it ever really matter if a tank is 7.4 dKH vs 7.6 dKH?

Which is more likely to be reproducible accurately given current hardware available, ie, i dont much care if it thinks my alk is 7.5 when its 7.8, but i do care that the device consistently reads 7.8 as 7.5.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

I'm looking forward to what GHL has in store for the Profilux since everything they design always seems to be top notch.
I want accuracy, low maintenance and affordable in order of priority.

I'm really thinking seriously about getting a GHL controller. I've heard nothing but good about their equipment.

 

[Elementalj]

I'm really thinking seriously about getting a GHL controller. I've heard nothing but good about their equipment.

That'll surely be on my next santa letter. I've been searching the web for information about GHL and rarely found anything negative. The new controller not only looks professional, it appears to be so.

 

[Breadman03]

I'm most interested in monitoring because I have a calcium reactor. I just don't need the dosing aspect.

 

[Jamie7907]

I would rather see the CO2 probe tied into a controller. In my case specifically Apex with a way to interface it with my CaRx to automatically make adjustments as needed. With Apex's new flowmeters coming out I see this being relatively easy to implement with an electronically adjustable valve. I already intend to implement one of the new flow meters on each of my reactors already. The oilfield industry already implements technology similar to this on a larger scale so I know the possibility and the technology is there. I believe the new Alk toy coming from CoralVue is extremely overpriced at $1000, I mean all it does is monitor and adjust your dosing pumps. On my systems once I get my dosers or CaRx dialed in its pretty much just ensuring they stay topped up and that there are no clogs which is where the flowmeters from Apex will come in handy. I think 3-4 hundred would be a much more realistic price for just an Alk monitor/doser. I could see a 1k pricetag if it monitored and adjusted Alk, Ca and Mg and I think it would be better tied to a Ca reactor vs a single dosing pump so it could take care of all three.

 

[JMacedo]

I hope I will never need one! It takes some 60 secs or so to test for alk. Not going to waste time calibrating and servicing! just my 0.02cents.

 

[hybridazn]

What I'm looking for:

Accuracy
Ease of maintenance needed on monitor
Needs to be pleasant to the eye. I'm definitely a guy for function but I want the fashion as well. just don't make it look like a engineer designed it, you all know what I mean lol.

 

[Elementalj]

What I'm looking for:

Accuracy
Ease of maintenance needed on monitor
Needs to be pleasant to the eye. I'm definitely a guy for function but I want the fashion as well. just don't make it look like a engineer designed it, you all know what I mean lol.

Alkalinity controllers by Jony Ive?

 

[120reefkeeper]

I'm all about functionality. Fashion is fine and I believe that it will sell better if it looks nice. To me it's under the hood that needs to be where the money is spent. Continuous monitoring, accuracy, ease of use, low maintenance.

I really don't want to rely on something at this point to automatically adjust on the fly my dosing of Alk... cal... etc. to be honest it scares me to death if it were to have a brain freeze and tell my doser to just keep dumping. If it were capable of doing all of that then there has to be many safety interlocks to keep this thing from going haywire! I can think of many different ways of accomplishing that, but I just don't want to see this turn into another heater debacle. Don't get me wrong! I'm super pumped about all of this just like anyone, but I'm cautious.

Oh and btw I will not spend 1k for it [emoji23].

500 for the right piece that has all the above is right where I believe the market would sell .... sell .... sell.

I just can't see a justification for being more expensive than a controller.

My .02

 

[JMLewis]

Just an accurate monitor, let me control the dosage of my 2 part.

Being able to integrate with Apex would be awesome too!

 

[biom]

Randy, with your explanation this seems the logical path to develop a cost effective, continuous monitor for alkalinity. Most advanced hobbyists already have temp and ph probes, requiring only the purchase of a Co2 probe. Calculations could be done on server side (Apex Fusion/myGHL). So my question, why do you think manufacturers are going the route of titration instead of this alternative?

Because pictures of number of young handsome scientist wearing clean white lab coats and glasses smiling while working in super duper clean laboratory with tens of colorful reagents that manufacturers showing us at their websites is actually a fiction . Almost all of breakthrough inventions in this hobby emerged in forums like this one, invented by forum members and regular hobbyists and latter commercialized by big companies.

The future of kH testing is continuous measuring using dissolved CO2 probe, alongside with pH and temp probe, connected to a standard controller. I dont think there is a need dosing of Alk to be connected directly with kH testing, because what will happened in case of CO2 or pH probe failure? Pretty ugly picture. Instead of this if you have good controller with remote adjustments option, then if you receive such a warning for Alk dropping or rising, to decide what to do - to go to the tank to double check kH with classical methods or simply enter controller and readjust alk dosing regimen. But this should be you to take this decision not the controller.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy, with your explanation this seems the logical path to develop a cost effective, continuous monitor for alkalinity. Most advanced hobbyists already have temp and ph probes, requiring only the purchase of a Co2 probe. Calculations could be done on server side (Apex Fusion/myGHL). So my question, why do you think manufacturers are going the route of titration instead of this alternative?

You might check this thread as to the high precision required in those measurements:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/kh-guardian-khg-alk-calculation.277092/#post-3367385

 

[drernesto]

Nice thread! I'll keep an eye on.

 

[Robert Scott]

I am away from home fairly often so monitoring through a controller such as APEX would be high on my list. Separate control of Calcium Reactor, Kalk, and dosers (yes I use all three). In the event of an "Alkalinity alarm" I would want to check performance of dosing systems to determine whether it's a measurement or equipment error. I'm not sure that would be possible if Alk system controlled dosing. Obviously. if at home you would simply start with a manual Alk test.

 

[Thle009]

For me if Neptune offer it, it would be to monitor the level and I can fine tune the rest with my calcium reactor.

 

[MockandRoll]

From my count there are should be 4 alk monitors on the market soon. 1) KH Guardian (already out), 2) Apex (Welsh model), 3) FocusTronic (Jonas Model), 4) Pacific Sun. Am I missing one? This is going to be exciting. I think these monitor will definitely be a game changer, especially for smaller tanks were keeping alk stable requires daily testing.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

From my count there are should be 4 alk monitors on the market soon. 1) KH Guardian (already out), 2) Apex (Welsh model), 3) FocusTronic (Jonas Model), 4) Pacific Sun. Am I missing one? This is going to be exciting. I think these monitor will definitely be a game changer, especially for smaller tanks were keeping alk stable requires daily testing.

The only other one I know of is the KH Director by GHL that is due out "In a few days"