Alkalinity, Calcium and Magnesium not being utilized in SPS Tank.

[ReeferMadness80G]

I’ve been using Kalkwasser for a few months to keep my Alk and Cal in check, until I came across ATI Essentials and decided to give it a try. My parameters were pretty stable with
Alkalinity @ 8-9dkh
Calcium-440-470
Magnesium-1320-1400
Little run down on my tank:
Bout 7 months old.
I have around 17 frags of SPS(mostly acros) with one montipora and a few LPS (Goni, Alveopora, trumpet) and 2 anemones.
Frags seem to be growing and encrusting pretty normally, not spectacularly but they are growing, I have some slow growers but PE is good.
I run an 8 bulb ATI Sunpower over the tank which is 48x24x16 deep (DBP Rimless 80) I’ve recently really lowered the photoperiod and intensity.

Ok, MAIN QUESTION HERE.
I started dosing ATI Essentials at 50 ml(as instructed by ATI) of each per day,spread out over the day. They say to monitor your ALK daily and if you see it rise, cut back on all 3, if it falls then up your dose etc. mine started to rise and continued to rise daily until I was dosing 15 ml of each daily and then finally pulling the plug on my doser and stopping the regimen completely. With parameters then reaching
Alk@ 9.6
Cal@ 480
Mag@ 1440
I figured I’d let my tank consume these numbers naturally. However, after a week, my numbers haven’t budged. So I did a water change and got them down to
Alk@ 9
Cal@ 460
Mag@ 1400
And here 3 days later the numbers still haven’t budged. I’m so confused why I haven’t seen a drop. Is it bc I’m not dealing with full colonies and they are just .5”-3” frags?? I have no clue why I’m not seeing a drop in numbers like my corals are not using it. I’ll include some pictures

 

[Fudsey]

I'm having the same issue with Ca and Mg, dkH will fall if I let it, The other 2 I haven't dosed or added much but are not being utilized.

Following for insight

 

[hyprc]

How saturated was the kalk solution that you were dosing and how often? What are your po4 and no3 levels?

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

How saturated was the kalk solution that you were dosing and how often? What are your po4 and no3 levels?

When I used kalk I put it in my ato reservoir , I was using like 3 teaspoons to a 6-7gallon container
PO4 isn’t reading on API test so possibly 0
No3-I keep between 5-10ppm

 

[hyprc]

When I used kalk I put it in my ato reservoir , I was using like 3 teaspoons to a 6-7gallon container
PO4 isn’t reading on API test so possibly 0
No3-I keep between 5-10ppm

Dam I was hoping that would lead to an answer (possibly po4 limited) but I don't see it. Looks to be a healthy tank from the pics and sounds like you have your stuff together. Perhaps a trace element (or multiple) is your limiting factor? I just can't imagine that stunting growth... might be worth sending in a Triton or ATI test (I'm assuming you haven't recently)? Not to mention Essentials should've been replacing those missing trace elements while u were using it...
Only thing that does come to mind is you changed a lot in a short period of time (switching from kalk to an advanced balling method, lowered lighting intensity and photoperiod) so, in part, things could just be adapting/getting used to the changes but again, I couldn't imagine uptake grinding to a halt like that

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Dam I was hoping that would lead to an answer (possibly po4 limited) but I don't see it. Looks to be a healthy tank from the pics and sounds like you have your stuff together. Perhaps a trace element (or multiple) is your limiting factor? I just can't imagine that stunting growth... might be worth sending in a Triton or ATI test? Not to mention Essentials should've been replacing those missing trace elements while u were using it...

Yeah, that’s gonna be my next step. Thanks for your help, I just didn’t know if there was something obvious maybe I wasn’t seeing.

 

[hyprc]

Yeah, that’s gonna be my next step. Thanks for your help, I just didn’t know if there was something obvious maybe I wasn’t seeing.

Really hope you find your answer. I was hoping to try Essentials out myself when I can get the cash together for a doser (currently using kalk manually dosing, kept clogging up the ATO - but that's because it's a dumb Red Sea Reefer ATO lol).

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Really hope you find your answer. I was hoping to try Essentials out myself when I can get the cash together for a doser (currently using kalk manually dosing, kept clogging up the ATO - but that's because it's a dumb Red Sea Reefer ATO lol).

Yeah I have faith in the ATI Essentials, they also say to perform an ATI Labs test before starting, I just skipped that.

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Really hope you find your answer. I was hoping to try Essentials out myself when I can get the cash together for a doser (currently using kalk manually dosing, kept clogging up the ATO - but that's because it's a dumb Red Sea Reefer ATO lol).

If you’d like to follow the progression using ATI essentials you can find that info here on my build thread ReeferMadness80G’s Shallow SPS Reef
https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?threads/ReeferMadness80G’s-Shallow-SPS-Reef.263659/

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The ATI essentials will lead to a lower tank pH than limewater. That reduced pH will reduce daily demand, both by corals and by abiotic precipitation.

I'd just keep monitoring and watch as the corals adapt and you determine a longer term alk drop rate.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

I’ve been using Kalkwasser for a few months to keep my Alk and Cal in check, until I came across ATI Essentials and decided to give it a try. My parameters were pretty stable with
Alkalinity @ 8-9dkh
Calcium-440-470
Magnesium-1320-1400
Little run down on my tank:
Bout 7 months old.
I have around 17 frags of SPS(mostly acros) with one montipora and a few LPS (Goni, Alveopora, trumpet) and 2 anemones.
Frags seem to be growing and encrusting pretty normally, not spectacularly but they are growing, I have some slow growers but PE is good.
I run an 8 bulb ATI Sunpower over the tank which is 48x24x16 deep (DBP Rimless 80) I’ve recently really lowered the photoperiod and intensity.

Ok, MAIN QUESTION HERE.
I started dosing ATI Essentials at 50 ml(as instructed by ATI) of each per day,spread out over the day. They say to monitor your ALK daily and if you see it rise, cut back on all 3, if it falls then up your dose etc. mine started to rise and continued to rise daily until I was dosing 15 ml of each daily and then finally pulling the plug on my doser and stopping the regimen completely. With parameters then reaching
Alk@ 9.6
Cal@ 480
Mag@ 1440
I figured I’d let my tank consume these numbers naturally. However, after a week, my numbers haven’t budged. So I did a water change and got them down to
Alk@ 9
Cal@ 460
Mag@ 1400
And here 3 days later the numbers still haven’t budged. I’m so confused why I haven’t seen a drop. Is it bc I’m not dealing with full colonies and they are just .5”-3” frags?? I have no clue why I’m not seeing a drop in numbers like my corals are not using it. I’ll include some pictures

Hi man, I think it is an easy fix. Don't worry because you're not seeing much drop yet. And don't take this the wrong way, but it's because you have very little (relative) uptake at the moment due to how young your tank is. I'd have set that tank on 6 mL a day per channel on 2 or 3 or 4 part dosing system as a starting dose.

Your corals look great, they're just quite small so a 50 mL/channel dose was likely precipitating massively in the system and is way too much for where you're at currently. Start low with like a 2 or 3 mL daily dose and allow the corals to adapt. Once you start seeing the kH drop consistently over the course of a couple days then you can begin raising the dosage slowly as your testing dictates.

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

The ATI essentials will lead to a lower tank pH than limewater. That reduced pH will reduce daily demand, both by corals and by abiotic precipitation.

I'd just keep monitoring and watch as the corals adapt and you determine a longer term alk drop rate.

Sounds like a plan! Thanks Randy!

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Hi man, I think it is an easy fix. Don't worry because you're not seeing much drop yet. And don't take this the wrong way, but it's because you have very little (relative) uptake at the moment due to how young your tank is. I'd have set that tank on 6 mL a day per channel on 2 or 3 or 4 part dosing system as a starting dose.

Your corals look great, they're just quite small so a 50 mL/channel dose was likely precipitating massively in the system and is way too much for where you're at currently. Start low with like a 2 or 3 mL daily dose and allow the corals to adapt. Once you start seeing the kH drop consistently over the course of a couple days then you can begin raising the dosage slowly as your testing dictates.

No, I appreciate the insight! That’s actually what I wanted to hear. I thought that bc the tank was young and corals were not very big compared to the size of the system that the uptake would be very small. Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds like a plan! Thanks Randy!

'
You're welcome.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Little update. I set my dose to 6ml per day per channel.
Alk-8.3
Cal-450
Mag-1350
I set new dose to 4 ml per channel per day. Hopefully I can get it down to between 7-7.9dkh and then I can try to keep it there, I think somewhere between 4-6ml per day may be my lucky number. Seems very low to me judging by what other people are using.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

Little update. I set my dose to 6ml per day per channel.
Alk-8.3
Cal-450
Mag-1350
I set new dose to 4 ml per channel per day. Hopefully I can get it down to between 7-7.9dkh and then I can try to keep it there, I think somewhere between 4-6ml per day may be my lucky number. Seems very low to me judging by what other people are using.

Ahh I see my post above with the 6mL forecast was about what you needed after all. It doesn't seem low to me at all based on the pics you included, which btw were extremely helpful in identifying your issue as simple gross over-supplementation. Once you hold that baseline dose for a couple weeks and start to see corals put on more fast encrusting growth and shooting up some new axial tips you'll be ready to start slowing increasing the dosage. I think you'll still be surprised at how little daily supplement dose is needed to grow quite good looking set of mini colonies. You won't be hitting 50-100mL a day for a while. Those are some serious numbers for tanks with a lot of colonies. I think you're on the path to success. Best of luck on your journey with this tank!

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

Numbers sitting at A-7.7 C-430 M-1350
Up’d dosing to 6ml after being 4ml per day, numbers dropped to what they are currently so now hopefully I can stabilize at 6ml per day. Thank you @rockskimmerflow and @Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Those values look good.

Happy Reefing.

 

[ReeferMadness80G]

I guess I spoke too soon, my parameters have jumped to A-8.6 C-480 M-1410.
Really discouraging, I could deal with this easier if I had more of a buffer. But we’re talking 4ml is not enough and 5-6ml is WAY TOO MUCH! I don’t understand, this isn’t a nano tank and I have 20+ growing corals. I had a 14 gallon sps tank that was more stable than this. ATI Essentials has me jumping through hoops

 

[Brew12]

I guess I spoke too soon, my parameters have jumped to A-8.6 C-480 M-1410.
Really discouraging, I could deal with this easier if I had more of a buffer. But we’re talking 4ml is not enough and 5-6ml is WAY TOO MUCH! I don’t understand, this isn’t a nano tank and I have 20+ growing corals. I had a 14 gallon sps tank that was more stable than this. ATI Essentials has me jumping through hoops

I believe different products are better for different tanks. ATI Essentials may just not be the right product for your specific tank at this exact time. I feel this is one reason there are so many different opinions on which products are best. If what you were doing before was giving you better results, maybe you should go back and put the ATI on the shelf for a few more months.