Am I doing something wrong or is this just how it is?

[MarsReefer]

I can't seem to keep a fish alive through QT. I started with 2 clown fish and everything went great, but every fish i've tried to put through QT since then has died. I'm doing a hybrid tank transfer method QT since I didn't want to mess with copper dosing, but every fish I get just dies within 5 days.

I am using freshly mixed salt from 0 tds rodi water, I mix 50 gallons at the start of the process to 35 ppt and heat it to 78 degrees. The tanks are 10g with a small heater and airstone and an ammonia alert badge. Fish are acclimated over 20 minutes or so and released into the tank. They all seem fine for the first 24 hours, usually even taking some food.

I've lost 2 wrasses and a royal gramma so far. one at a time. I never have more than 1 fish in QT at a time. The wrasses had no visible signs of illness, though the royal gramma showed some weird translucent splotches near the end. The wrasses both died before the first tank transfer and the royal gramma 24 hours after the first transfer.

I have a separate frag tank for QT of inverts and corals that uses the same water and the corals are all happy looking and open, and the DT with my two lonely clowns are happy and healthy.

Am I doing something wrong here? Do fish just die this often? My only LFS doesn't do any sort of QT, just an initial formalin dip.

 

[stevolough]

When I set up quarantine I use aged water from my display and put the freshly mixed into the display. Then I take a gallon out of quarantine daily and replace with aged display water.

 

[Reefer Matt]

#fishmedic

 

[Jekyl]

TTM is probably the most stressful thing you can put a fish through.

 

[MnFish1]

I can't seem to keep a fish alive through QT. I started with 2 clown fish and everything went great, but every fish i've tried to put through QT since then has died. I'm doing a hybrid tank transfer method QT since I didn't want to mess with copper dosing, but every fish I get just dies within 5 days.

I am using freshly mixed salt from 0 tds rodi water, I mix 50 gallons at the start of the process to 35 ppt and heat it to 78 degrees. The tanks are 10g with a small heater and airstone and an ammonia alert badge. Fish are acclimated over 20 minutes or so and released into the tank. They all seem fine for the first 24 hours, usually even taking some food.

I've lost 2 wrasses and a royal gramma so far. one at a time. I never have more than 1 fish in QT at a time. The wrasses had no visible signs of illness, though the royal gramma showed some weird translucent splotches near the end. The wrasses both died before the first tank transfer and the royal gramma 24 hours after the first transfer.

I have a separate frag tank for QT of inverts and corals that uses the same water and the corals are all happy looking and open, and the DT with my two lonely clowns are happy and healthy.

Am I doing something wrong here? Do fish just die this often? My only LFS doesn't do any sort of QT, just an initial formalin dip.

It would be nice to know what your exact 'hybrid tank transfer method. I would also be concerned about the source your LFS is using for its fish. I might also ask your LFS if you can have them watch the fish for 1-2 weeks - you can then see if its something you are doing - or if its poor quality (sick/cyanide/etc) fish.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't use TTM, too stressful and not effective against some diseases (even hybrid). Here is our quarantine protocol. It isn't 100% effective against all issues, but it covers the main contagious ones (ich, velvet, flukes). I can generally get about 80% to 90% survivorship using it. However, I also can avoid sourcing poor quality, cyanide collected fish, so if you are buying general LFS animals, that can be an issue.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/current-quarantine-protocol.825055/

Jay

 

[MarsReefer]

TTM is probably the most stressful thing you can put a fish through.

I mean at this point i'm not even making it to the transfer part, they get an initial H2O2 dip and then into the tank. Only the royal gramma even made it to the first transfer.

When I set up quarantine I use aged water from my display and put the freshly mixed into the display. Then I take a gallon out of quarantine daily and replace with aged display water.

Any particular reason for this? I figured freshly mixed water would be the cleanest, no excess nutrients or other potential things. Though my waste water from the DT does go into my frag tank to give it nutrients and that is doing the best so maybe that's something to try.

It would be nice to know what your exact 'hybrid tank transfer method. I would also be concerned about the source your LFS is using for its fish. I might also ask your LFS if you can have them watch the fish for 1-2 weeks - you can then see if its something you are doing - or if its poor quality (sick/cyanide/etc) fish

I do an initial acclimate, then a 30 minute H2O2 dip at 150 ppm. No one seemed bothered by this part.

Then move them into the first 10 gallon tank for 70 hours and transfer to my second 10 gallon tank. both wrasses died before any transfers around the 60 hour mark. The royal gramma made it 12 hours past the first transfer and was swimming fine when I went to bed but was dead by morning.

I then in theory would follow the rest of Humblefish's HTTM guide but I haven't made it that far with anything except the clowns.

 

[MnFish1]

I mean at this point i'm not even making it to the transfer part, they get an initial H2O2 dip and then into the tank. Only the royal gramma even made it to the first transfer.



Any particular reason for this? I figured freshly mixed water would be the cleanest, no excess nutrients or other potential things. Though my waste water from the DT does go into my frag tank to give it nutrients and that is doing the best so maybe that's something to try.



I do an initial acclimate, then a 30 minute H2O2 dip at 150 ppm. No one seemed bothered by this part.

Then move them into the first 10 gallon tank for 70 hours and transfer to my second 10 gallon tank. both wrasses died before any transfers around the 60 hour mark. The royal gramma made it 12 hours past the first transfer and was swimming fine when I went to bed but was dead by morning.

I then in theory would follow the rest of Humblefish's HTTM guide but I haven't made it that far with anything except the clowns.

I might suggest Humblefish might have more suggestions. I would not do a 30 minute H2O2 Drip - mainly because I don't know of any evidence that it's 'doing anything'. IMHO- TTM does not work well for velvet-type diseases (hybrid or not)

 

[MnFish1]

BTW - I forgot to mention - I would make sure that the concentration of H2O2 is correct.

 

[nereefpat]

It's difficult (impossible?) to say for sure why the 3 specific fish didn't make it. You might try something different, like skipping any treatment in QT until fish have made it a couple days and are eating well, unless you are seeing visible disease. I don't like the idea of dips in most cases, especially prophylactic ones, although I know other people do use them.

I would also like to bring up wrasses. It seems like they have become really popular over the last few years in the hobby. For me, fairy wrasses have been a disaster for the last 3 years or so. I have tried several that haven't made it through QT.

Anyway...since you have a 10 gallon tank to use as a QT, I would suggest:
Set it up with clean water, heater, and either an air driven sponge filter or hang on back.
Cycle it.
Add a fish or two, but without any meds for the first few days. Get fish eating well.
Then use Copper. I know copper gives some people the heebie jebbies. Since we've started using Copper Power or CoppperSafe over Cupramine and others, fish handle that just fine. Take a couple days to get it up to 2+ ppm if you want. H202 and Formaldehyde, imo, should be reserved for emergencies including brook where copper doesn't work.
After you're satisfied with the length of copper treatment, keep the fish in copper while doing 2 rounds of Prazi 6 days apart.
Then into the display.

 

[davidcalgary29]

So sorry to hear this, and no, it's not normal. Were these fish all from the same source? If so, I'd change that, immediately.

Royal grammas are also being bred. I'd consider a captive-bred specimen if you want a replacement for the one that you lost.

 

[MnFish1]

So sorry to hear this, and no, it's not normal. Were these fish all from the same source? If so, I'd change that, immediately.

Royal grammas are also being bred. I'd consider a captive-bred specimen if you want a replacement for the one that you lost.

One problem with captive bred fish - no immunity

 

[davidcalgary29]

One problem with captive bred fish - no immunity

Yes, but I'd wager that their immune systems are probably stronger as they haven't been through the shock of being caught in the wild and shipped in who knows what conditions. I haven't lost a captive-bred fish to anything but human error.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes, but I'd wager that their immune systems are probably stronger as they haven't been through the shock of being caught in the wild and shipped in who knows what conditions. I haven't lost a captive-bred fish to anything but human error.

I think your wager is incorrect. The immune system is based on exposure. This is widely known. I am curious - what was the human error? - and BTW - my comment related to adding captive bred - non-immune fish to an 'immune tank'. FWIW - I agree that a well fed/healthy fed fish is going to do better with a cryptocaryon infection than an emaciated fish. Statistically, there is probably a difference. Clinically imho No.

 

[MnFish1]

Yes, but I'd wager that their immune systems are probably stronger as they haven't been through the shock of being caught in the wild and shipped in who knows what conditions. I haven't lost a captive-bred fish to anything but human error.

PS - if you have no fish but captive bred fish - this is not an issue

 

[MarsReefer]

It's difficult (impossible?) to say for sure why the 3 specific fish didn't make it. You might try something different, like skipping any treatment in QT until fish have made it a couple days and are eating well, unless you are seeing visible disease. I don't like the idea of dips in most cases, especially prophylactic ones, although I know other people do use them.

I would also like to bring up wrasses. It seems like they have become really popular over the last few years in the hobby. For me, fairy wrasses have been a disaster for the last 3 years or so. I have tried several that haven't made it through QT.

Anyway...since you have a 10 gallon tank to use as a QT, I would suggest:
Set it up with clean water, heater, and either an air driven sponge filter or hang on back.
Cycle it.
Add a fish or two, but without any meds for the first few days. Get fish eating well.
Then use Copper. I know copper gives some people the heebie jebbies. Since we've started using Copper Power or CoppperSafe over Cupramine and others, fish handle that just fine. Take a couple days to get it up to 2+ ppm if you want. H202 and Formaldehyde, imo, should be reserved for emergencies including brook where copper doesn't work.
After you're satisfied with the length of copper treatment, keep the fish in copper while doing 2 rounds of Prazi 6 days apart.
Then into the display.

alright i'm going to go ahead an give this a try on my next fish. For now I ordered my next pair of wrasses from Dr Reef so I don't need to QT them as I know they are sensitive to copper and not something i'd want to mess up again

I'll get some copper and prazi on order. My local fish stores are limited but I can try a different source as well.

 

[davidcalgary29]

I think your wager is incorrect. The immune system is based on exposure. This is widely known. I am curious - what was the human error?

Kids sprayed bleach while "playing" around my IM40. I lost everything but a (captive-bred!) orchid dottyback.

 

[nereefpat]

Dr Reef

I read good things about them, but haven't tried them myself. I think I might for my next online order, whenever that may be.

For now I ordered my next pair of wrasses from Dr Reef so I don't need to QT them as I know they are sensitive to copper and not something i'd want to mess up again

I haven't had trouble with wrasses, at least Halichoeres, with Copper Power. It's really easy to use.

You're doing the right thing by QTing. I know it can be frustrating. For me, getting reasonably healthy livestock is by far the toughest part of the hobby. Sometimes we all lose fish through no fault of our own.

 

[MnFish1]

I read good things about them, but haven't tried them myself. I think I might for my next online order, whenever that may be.

I haven't had trouble with wrasses, at least Halichoeres, with Copper Power. It's really easy to use.

You're doing the right thing by QTing. I know it can be frustrating. For me, getting reasonably healthy livestock is by far the toughest part of the hobby. Sometimes we all lose fish through no fault of our own.

Wrasses seem somewhat immune. IMHO

 

[nereefpat]

Wrasses seem somewhat immune. IMHO

Immune to damage from copper, you mean?