Ammonia Control in a Hospital Tank

Discussion in 'Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis' started by Brew12, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. jeff williams

    jeff williams Well-Known Member

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    You can’t overdose biospira, I usuall squeeze out the sponge and pour the bio on the sponge also I’ve never had trouble with copper killing the bacteria that convert ammonia but I have had the cu kill the bacteria that coverts nitrite. Ammonia will read good on the seachem badge but nitrite will shoot up. This is less of a problem in a tank due to the chloride blocking the absorption of the nitrite by the fish
     
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  2. Ferrell

    Ferrell Valuable Member R2R Supporter Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Build Thread Contributor

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    I keep one of these in my DT sump for a month prior to using .Always ready to go At a moment's notice. At five bucks it's cheap enough to pitch after QT or HT use
     
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  3. cracker

    cracker Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    good read.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  4. Kevinkmk

    Kevinkmk Active Member

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    When is it safe to dosed copper with prime treated water? Do I have to do water change before dosing copper? My qt has been up 1 week and half. Dosed dr Tim to get started and dosing Seachem seed everyday now. It still have ammonia, and the fish is already in there with prime everyday to detox the ammonia. The fish does not seem to have any disease.
     
  5. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    It should be safe 3 days after the last dose of Prime.
     
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  6. Pickleowl

    Pickleowl Member

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    Can you expound on this nitrite not being absorbed by fish because of the chloride? I think Brew said this earlier too and I've never heard that before.. I waited an extra week when my ammonia was 0 but nitrites were high,, did I not have to wait a week as long as ammonia was 0?
     
  7. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    It's never bad to wait in the interest of fish health. I can't find any of the better studies that are free to read, but this one talks about it a little if you want to learn more.
    http://vri.cz/docs/vetmed/50-11-461.pdf
    Here is the most relevant part. Again, this isn't one of the main studies, it only references their conclusions.

    "Freshwater fish and crustaceans are hyperosmotic to their environment and require an active uptake of ions across the gills to compensate for ions lost with urine and via passive efflux across the gills. Fish gain ions through their diet, and most fish are also able to accumulate ions through active uptake mechanisms associated with the chloride cells of gills (Maetz, 1971). In fresh water, these cells can give off ammonium or hydrogen ions in exchange for an equal number of sodium ions and can give off bicarbonate ions in exchange for an equivalent number of chloride ions (Love, 1980). Problems with nitrite in freshwater animals stem from the fact that NO2 – has an affinity for the branchial Cl– uptake mechanism, presumably the Cl–/HCO3 – exchanger; thus, whenever nitrite is present in the ambient water, a part of the Cl– uptake will be shifted to NO2 – uptake (Jensen, 2003). A shared uptake route for nitrite and chloride is also supported by the fact that fish with high branchial Cl– uptake rates (e.g. rainbow trout, perch, pike) are more sensitive to nitrite than species with low uptake rates (eel, carp, tench) (Williams and Eddy, 1986)".
     
  8. Pickleowl

    Pickleowl Member

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    Thanks Brew..
     
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  9. maxter

    maxter Active Member

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    One quick question Can i just use fresh saltwater in the qt and do wc everytime the ammonia cycles begin is only 10 gallon so i do t think thats going to hurt my wallet also only planning medicate the fish for about 7 days , thanks in advance for the input
     
  10. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    That is an option. It can be a lot of work but nothing wrong with it if you are keeping a close eye on ammonia.

    7 days is a very short treatment. I'm not sure what you are treating or your method but good luck!
     
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  11. maxter

    maxter Active Member

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    Thanks i create a post here , im treating a marine betta with a open wound
     
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  12. Pickleowl

    Pickleowl Member

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    Regarding the seachem ammonia alert,, can these be reused?
    Meaning, can I tear my QT down, wash everything and let air dry a couple days including the ammonia alert and then put back in new QT tank to be used again? It comes with a piece of plastic on the monitor point so didn't know if it couldn't be exposed to air for a long time or needed submerged the entire time to read correctly..
     
  13. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    I reuse mine. After cleaning it and letting it dry, I put them in a baggie with just a little RODI to keep in damp. Then I tuck it into a drawer to keep it dark so stuff doesn't grow.
     
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  14. Pickleowl

    Pickleowl Member

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    Good idea, thank you..
     
  15. B-ridge

    B-ridge Valuable Member

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    I am having issues controlling ammonia in my qt tank. I first started the tank using water from my main tank and put into qt tank. 2 days prior I had soaked some bio spira in a bucket with ceramic media. I already had a sponge in my sump. I then placed sponge from sump into hob filter along with the bio spira and put in the rest of the bottle of bio spira. For 2 almost 3 days I had no ammonia. Then I noticed ammonia had went up to 5 during the day. I immediately did a 90-95% water change. I also added a live rock from sump area and placed into qt tank. I also had a bag of siporax that has been in my sump for months that I placed into qt tank. I also dosed prime and later that night started stability. Ammonia was 0 for a day and a half. Tested yesterday and ammonia was at 0.25. I didn't have a chance to change water so I dosed prime as directed and did 2nd dose of stability since it says for first 7 days. My question is is there something else I can do or use to keep ammonia levels down or am I having to wait for however long its gonna take for qt tank to cycle? I failed to mention there are 5 fish inside qt 2 small fish less than a inch. 2 medium size fish possibly 3 inches and a larger fish at maybe 5 inches. Sounds like I may possibly have more fish than what my qt tank can handle. I thought with me adding the live rock and siporax I would have enough bacteria to possibly complete. Help and suggestion gretly needed
     
  16. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    It sounds like you are doing everything right.

    Do you have much flow in your QT? You may not have enough flow over the media and siporax. Make sure you have good flow through and around the media. I haven't found a sponge in a sump to be effective at seeding it either. All the flow seems to go around the sponge and it doesn't work well for me.
    Also, with the API ammonia test you can consider the 0.25ppm to be zero. They often give false positive readings. I wish I could offer more help!
     
  17. B-ridge

    B-ridge Valuable Member

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    Thanks for your feedback. I had a powerhead in the tank. I think it was too much for my 20 gallon long. Pump is rated for 796 gph. Not sure how big/small I would need for tank that size.
    How would you suggest I place powerhead so it can flow through siporax? Right now siporax is in a mesh bag just sitting on bottom of the tank. Thought between that and a nice big piece of live rock that would of helped
     
  18. Brew12

    Brew12 Electrical Gru Staff Member Team R2R R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Reef Squad Leader Partner Member 2019 Reef Tank 365 Article Contributor Build Thread Contributor North Alabama Reef Club

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    I would have thought it would be enough, too, although that is a high fish load for such a small tank. Try reflecting the flow off the front wall from the side. The siporax sitting on the bottom should work as long as water is moving through the system.
     
  19. cracker

    cracker Valuable Member R2R Supporter R2R Excellence Award Hospitality Award Build Thread Contributor

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    I'm always surprise how such a small foam block stuck over the intake of a small pump Can house enough bacteria. seems so small to my eyes.
     
  20. ReefWithCare

    ReefWithCare Valuable Member

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    If you have a big emergency like say 10 small to medium sized fish to Hospitalize - how big of a tank do you need to be able to manage the ammonia levels?
     
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