Ammonia in INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS

[allsite]

First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

 

[MnFish1]

Ammo Lock in FW aquariums will sometimes (always?) result in dark green API ammonia tests. I wouldn't be surprised if it interferes in saltwater as well.

yes - I mentioned that as well. I meant in the original post - the tube (I believe) with ammo-lock had less 'green' than the other? maybe I read it wrong.

 

[allsite]

I'm convinced if I dropped the Seachem ammonia badge into my new mix it would read "Safe", based on the "ever-green" API test kit comparison. The API kit reads about 12x times the ammonia as the Seachem badge. Combine this with the fact I've done everything humanly possible to remove ammonia, it has to be false flag. The dark green tube did correlate with the death of my fish but that was taken with what is clearly a bad test kit from a tank dosed with AmmoLock.

Let's forget ammonia.

So my question is what could possibly be killing basically all creatures in the tank? Maybe a parasite from new corals?

 

[Potatohead]

I agree this is very likely not ammonia related. Chances are high the ammo lock is messing with the test kit, this is a common problem.

I also agree this was probably a series of cascading events.

Steps to remedy:

Run carbon (done)

Three 30% water changes over three days. Make absolutely sure you know the salinity is correct. Always have backups to critical life support - salinity confirmation being one of those.

Heavy dose beneficial bacteria such as MB7

Lots of aeration/flow

Keep lighting subdued for three to four days

This should get you out of the woods

 

[allsite]

I agree this is very likely not ammonia related. Chances are high the ammo lock is messing with the test kit, this is a common problem.

I also agree this was probably a series of cascading events.

Steps to remedy:

Run carbon (done)

Three 30% water changes over three days. Make absolutely sure you know the salinity is correct. Always have backups to critical life support - salinity confirmation being one of those.

Heavy dose beneficial bacteria such as MB7

Lots of aeration/flow

Keep lighting subdued for three to four days

This should get you out of the woods

I have a gut feeling you nailed it by highlighting salinity testing equipment. It makes sense in every way. New and much better quality kit comes tomorrow. I’ve never wanted a bad test result more.

I’m not sure if you read all 12 pages but your recommendation is essentially a summary of what other have suggested in bits and pieces. So thankfully I’m already doing all of that and will continue. Thanks for the much needed confidence.

 

[Gtinnel]

I have replied in this thread several times but I justed wanted to say I'm sorry you have to go through this. I understand how it feels, I had all of my fish in a fully stock 125g tank die within about 2 hours when my tank was right at 1 year old. They seemed fine and then a few hours later everything was dead. Unless you find an issue with your salinity then you will probably never know what caused it. The best advice I can give is to learn anything you can from the experience.

 

[allsite]

I have replied in this thread several times but I justed wanted to say I'm sorry you have to go through this. I understand how it feels, I had all of my fish in a fully stock 125g tank die within about 2 hours when my tank was right at 1 year old. They seemed fine and then a few hours later everything was dead. Unless you find an issue with your salinity then you will probably never know what caused it. The best advice I can give is to learn anything you can from the experience.

Thanks and sorry to hear you had a similar disaster but 4x the size. There’s some great lessons indeed. For example, I’m sitting here wondering why I don’t keep a 8 dollar bottle of calibration seawater on hand. I didn’t really have any help or community before joining this awesome forum and I’m really excited to make a post for rebuilding the reef.

 

[KStatefan]

Thanks and sorry to hear you had a similar disaster but 4x the size. There’s some great lessons indeed. For example, I’m sitting here wondering why I don’t keep a 8 dollar bottle of calibration seawater on hand. I didn’t really have any help or community before joining this awesome forum and I’m really excited to make a post for rebuilding the reef.

You can make your own calibration solution with table salt.

 

[zalick]

Sorry for all the losses and good luck with the solutions. Make sure to keep and open mind and not get tunnel vision on any one issue.

salinity is certainly important and swing arms aren’t accurate but I’d be surprised if this is your root issue. I used a swing arm for a decade, with a crack in it, and never had any losses. I also used tap water filtered through a Britta. If my salinity was off, I’d dump a little salt in my overflow. Terrible practice but I didn’t know better and we didn’t have the internet then.

I’ve gone through multiple refractomers and settled on the veegee. It holds calibration extremely well and the double hinged flap is easy to use.

coralline must be introduced. It doesn’t just apppear. If you started with dry rock, it’s no surprise you don’t have any. I don’t believe that’s an indicator of your tank health. IME

how long had your sand sat undisturbed and how deep was it before you stirred it up?

 

[allsite]

Ladies and gentlemen, I electrocuted my pets. The raspberry pi temp monitor I recently added completed a circuit. I can still feel lingering pain in my finger after repeatedly testing as I removed devices one by one. This was current and not stray voltage.

EDIT: I know fish aren’t grounded and the current flow ruined my water quality by producing toxins.

Electric Current in reef tank.

What effects if any does electric current have on tanks biofilter and water chemistry?

www.reef2reef.com

So every time I did water changes the probe was not submerged thus not doing harm. Things were looking up and up as I spent hours waiting on my rodi to replace the 70% water change. The fish looked happy as I added back 5 gallons at a time. Topped off the tank before much needed sleep, zapperoo fishes! I know this is a complicated hobby, but my goodness that’s just cruel! So much tlc undermined by filling the last inch of water.

I read up on electricity and I now realize I’m lucky it was the fish and not myself. This old house has 2 prongs everywhere but per code bathrooms have to be equipped with GCFI. Being a renter, I’ve decided to run an extension cord into my bathroom. It will be my favorite ugly wire and on that same note, I’ve never celebrated getting shocked until today. Zap here’s your life back!

We can finally let the thread die and a big thank you to all who contributed. I could list all the things I’ve learned and upgrades but I’ll just say it’s a lot and put this to rest.

RIP: Smeppy the tang, Joey the basslet, littleguy male clown and RisingGnisir the danselfish.

 

[Cell]

Fish aren't grounded though.

 

[brandon429]

@Gtinnel I did indeed make a generalized statement: nobody has ever shown me a reef tank post cycle that can’t control its ammonia using seneye.

blanket statements offend most readers, but that doesn’t make the findings wrong. It’s means we’ve got an uber sensitive lot here and Neon didn’t bring me here on post four because he thought I’d be passive and boring on the matter


my report on patterns evident is discounted quickly, but not with any proof links for ten pages. Not one link posted here shows reliably that reef tanks can’t control free ammonia after a cycle, and 100% can


the blanket statement was to put the Op at ease, his tank was covered when I said all post cycle reefs control their ammonia just fine.

that statement leads to all bashing: you’re always making up seneye things/ your work threads are anecdotes and mean nothing etc, but the tenet still holds. And nobody has flooded us with alternate read links like this one for example:

see how this example below isn’t my reef, it’s ten + others on seneye showing todays crew a hidden rule about inherent ammonia control

Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?

So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...

www.reef2reef.com

if we could get links from the crowd where they studied some patterns, logged them, and the patterns show post cycle reefs even after removing a few rocks unable to control free ammonia, on seneye, then we’d have something. What we have currently is no links bashing anecdotal links lol, it’s a lopsided link war.

can moving rocks and sand around kill fish via pathways other than ammonia? Sounds reasonable but we wont know what that was, only can guess

can fish disease kill marine fish moreso now than at any previous time in this hobby? Disease forum seems to think so, ten new help posts in last hour.

we do rock removals and rescapes in nanos while maintaining bioloads for twenty years. Just because he removed a few rocks here didn’t sway ammonia control for me, based on what I’ve seen, but am aware it instantly validated all test reads for the crowd. That’s why the thread got so fun

 

[KStatefan]

I read up on electricity and I now realize I’m lucky it was the fish and not myself. This old house has 2 prongs everywhere but per code bathrooms have to be equipped with GCFI. Being a renter, I’ve decided to run an extension cord into my bathroom. It will be my favorite ugly wire and on that same note, I’ve never celebrated getting shocked until today. Zap here’s your life back!

Do not us an extension cord for permanent installation.

 

[Sleeping Giant]

I have been using them since 2012. That’s why I’m following this also

I just started with it over a month ago. It's good salt, if let to settle it will leave a brown residue. But I just don't suck that up during WC, and wash out my pails after every use. No stains.

 

[allsite]

Fish aren't grounded though.

There’s a lot of debate on that topic, especially surrounding stray voltage vs a complete circuit (current). For me it’s almost a certainty. Everything went to hell 1-2 days after the probe went in after 2 great years.

Electric Current in reef tank.

What effects if any does electric current have on tanks biofilter and water chemistry?

www.reef2reef.com

According to the chemist I didn’t electrocute them but bombed my water chemistry.

 

[Garf]

There’s a lot of debate on that topic, especially surrounding stray voltage vs a complete circuit (current). For me it’s almost a certainty. Everything went to hell 1-2 days after the probe went in after 2 great years.



i dropped a live 240V extension in mine, scared the hell out of me. Fish just looked at me like I was being a *****.

 

[Cell]

I'm not aware of much legitimate debate more so than simple confusion on what's going on.

Aquarium Electrocution

Can my aquarium fish be electrocuted?

aquariumscience.org

 

[allsite]

I'm not aware of much legitimate debate more so than simple confusion on what's going on.

Aquarium Electrocution

Can my aquarium fish be electrocuted?

aquariumscience.org

Please see the link I added to my previous reply.

 

[Gtinnel]

@Gtinnel I did indeed make a generalized statement: nobody has ever shown me a reef tank post cycle that can’t control its ammonia using seneye.

You weren't the one who made the generalized statement that I was responding to. It was the person who told you to put dead fish in your tank and see how it goes that I was replying to.
I agree with most if not everything you mentioned in this thread. I think this hobby would be better off if API would quit making ammonia tests. There are way too many times where a hobbiest has an issue in their tank, sees a small amount of ammonia on the test and jumps to rash conclusions, and starts trying to fix their problem in ways that make their situation even worse.

 

[MnFish1]

@brandon429 I think your comments make sense, BUT there are plenty of cases where people have overfed, a big fish has died, etc etc - and there has been an ammonia spike high enough to cause a tank crash. So I assume you mean a .7 mg/l spike should not cause a problem in a 2 year cycled tank?

@allsite. 2 things - I would not use an extension cord. You shoudl be able to buy a GFI to plug into your wall. Some heaters (especially larger ones) specifically say not to use an extension cord except for certain lengths. I also agree (for many reasons) - that it seems unlikely that voltage caused your problem

 

[brandon429]

oh, ha gotcha @Gtinnel, I better go outside and get sun today v trouble shoot here plus I just saw he mentioned something about electrical issues that sounds concerning for safety. Have gfci / be safe


MN yes agreed on spikes for sure, just not sustains for days