Ammonia in INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS

[allsite]

First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

 

[ApoIsland]

Update: Today I tested RedSea Coral Pro salt for ammonia. 100% yellow (not at all green) reading. This is the first of such clear readings I've measured since the beginning of this thread. Instant Ocean fresh mix reads about 0.4ppm. It's clear which salt I'll be using going forward.

This was an interesting read and appreciate you doing the updates.

Also very sorry to hear about your issue but there is nothing wrong with I/O Reef Crystals. Thinking anything that happened had to do with the salt mix is doing yourself a disservice with respect to learning and growing from the experience. For the sake of the company who puts out a good product I wish the title of the thread could be changed.

Maybe the photos are not picking up the maturity of the rocks but if they are accurate I would imagine the issue lies somewhere with regard to an almost completely sterile looking 2 year old tank.

 

[allsite]

This was an interesting read and appreciate you doing the updates.

Also very sorry to hear about your issue but there is nothing wrong with I/O Reef Crystals. Thinking anything that happened had to do with the salt mix is doing yourself a disservice with respect to learning and growing from the experience. For the sake of the company who puts out a good product I wish the title of the thread could be changed.

Maybe the photos are not picking up the maturity of the rocks but if they are accurate I would imagine the issue lies somewhere with regard to an almost completely sterile looking 2 year old tank.

I agree there probably isn't anything wrong with I/O crystals. It's been confirmed in this thread (not by me) that they have slightly more ammonia than other brands tested, but that doesn't mean it's a problem. Ammonia probably wasn't the killer here, nor did anything bad happen for many months of using the same I/O batch. I'd change the title if I could figure out how.

The rocks got moved throughout this debacle. If I turned them over to the correct sides I think you'd see they're indeed very "live". The sand got gently turned as I sifted with my hands for any rotting specimens. Combine all that with the fact I scrape the glass, lack coralline and run a very clean tank (I pick up the poop like I'm at a dog park), yes it's somewhat sterile looking in comparison to many others. The biofilter however is well established, oversized canister packed with good stuff. It could have been disease followed by bad intervention steps, bad mixing technique/measurement, electrical issue, the list goes on. It looks like only the clown is going to make it but I'm feeling good about the whole thing, knowing I got a ton of help uprooting problems. Gives me the feels

Anyhow, thanks for the kind words.

 

[iMi]

I agree there probably isn't anything wrong with I/O crystals. It's been confirmed in this thread (not by me) that they have slightly more ammonia than other brands tested, but that doesn't mean it's a problem. Ammonia probably wasn't the killer here, nor did anything bad happen for many months of using the same I/O batch. I'd change the title if I could figure out how.

The rocks got moved throughout this debacle. If I turned them over to the correct sides I think you'd see they're indeed very "live". The sand got gently turned as I sifted with my hands for any rotting specimens. Combine all that with the fact I scrape the glass, lack coralline and run a very clean tank (I pick up the poop like I'm at a dog park), yes it's somewhat sterile looking in comparison to many others. The biofilter however is well established, oversized canister packed with good stuff. It could have been disease followed by bad intervention steps, bad mixing technique/measurement, electrical issue, the list goes on. It looks like only the clown is going to make it but I'm feeling good about the whole thing, knowing I got a ton of help uprooting problems. Gives me the feels

Anyhow, thanks for the kind words.

I admire your determination. This hobby can sometimes (maybe even a lot of the times) throw you a curve ball and it can be heartbreaking and difficult to continue. Sounds like you’re turning a corner with this tank, which is great to see.

 

[iMi]

Lots of Marine Pure, floss, ceramic rings, carbon and purigen. You’ve joined the club of people that don’t think the tank looks 2 years old. Lack of colalline and overall cleanliness likely gives that impression.

Hard to say what the problem is/was, but my process for maintaining SG was way off. I now have a floating high precision hydrometer installed into plastic rings/suction cups, what a life saver. I’m dialing it in using a tea cup, night and day difference.

I’ve also started curing more rock but it’s going to be a while.

To clarify what I mean, I don’t doubt you have been running the tank for two years. I meant that the fact it looks newer is a symptom of something being wrong.

I would also recommend you pick up a refractometer along with a calibration fluid. Are you using ATO?

 

[allsite]

To clarify what I mean, I don’t doubt you have been running the tank for two years. I meant that the fact it looks newer is a symptom of something being wrong.

I would also recommend you pick up a refractometer along with a calibration fluid. Are you using ATO?

Got a refractometer, fluid and the installed scientific floating hydrometer. I suspect the swing arm hydrometer, which is now in a landfill, was resulting in high salinity.

Yes, I installed ATO and in tank skimmer about 2 months ago after I added my first corals to address surface film. The film wasn’t extreme, was mitigated with powerheads and is now gone via the skimmer. ATO is actually offline right now but I have rodi lines running straight to the tank, so it’s easy to get by. I need to flush out my ATO reservoir after dropping my inline heater into it. It was smoking plastic but the contaminated water never reached the tank. Amazing how the mistakes can just compound when you’re in panic mode. Painful in the moment, humorous in reflection.

My surviving snail seems back to business after being parked for almost a week. It was out of the water, clinging to tank rim. Now he’s back on the rocks, getting busy doing snail things. One of the best lessons here is to put down your test kit and let your pets tell you what’s happening.

 

[allsite]

Update, the anemone and half the corals were removed today after concluding their fate was grim. Maybe some zoas will pull through but it’s doubtful. In any case, they were just tiny seeds of corals. I’ll survive the loss. New coral 12 gallon long tank begins cycling today.

 

[AirIck]

There's no need for an expensive chloramine kit.

Any cheapo chlorine test will tell you if there is chlorine OR chloramine in your RO/DI.

@Randy Holmes-Farley im a newb and think I may need to replace something. What cheap test should I get to test chlorine? There seems to be a “free” or “total” test. Also, reading these boards is confusing to me about testing after the carbon stage, how do I do that? Can I just test what is coming out into my bucket to make sure no chlorine made it through the entire unit? Sorry, I’m totally confused and worried I am ruining my tank!

 

[JR5195]

First off, I'll just say I'm one sad fish dad. One by one my fish and corals are dying. It's my first reef and my 5 fish were buddies for 2 years. Not a single death until this week.

INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS crashed my reef with ammonia. I didn't believe it at first but the tests feel conclusive.

The picture with 2 tubes:
Left: RODI+salt mix (from a pitcher of water with a drop of AmmoLock)
Right: RODI+salt mix

The picture with 1 tube:
Just RODI

Is it in my bucket? Nope, I tested it with a clean pitcher, exact same result. Nothing else touches the water prior to testing.

I have 2 boxes of mix that were ordered several months apart. One brand new, the other about 4 months old. They BOTH produced the same result (as seen in the pic).

All of the tests were done to water that was tank-ready, salinity and temp on par. I'm happy I didn't dump it into the tank but that also mean I'm just letting it die until I get new salt first thing tomorrow. I really hope AmmoLock and bacteria additives can save what little is left (1 clown and a few frags).

My tank is currently testing better than the right tube and worse than the left (forgot to take a photo but it's somewhat irrelevant in this thread).

My question is, how is it possible INSTANT OCEAN REEF CRYSTALS could produce 0.7ppm ammonia seawater? They're just selling poison? Is that not the point when doing a water change, to remove bad stuff while introducing good stuff?

It was traumatic to watch it crash after enjoying it to the max, stuck in a small apartment downtown during a pandemic. However I realize other reefers have incurred much bigger losses and my heart goes out to anyone who has to go through it.

I’m sorry that you lost your fish. I had something similar happen to me and now I am starting to think it is the batch of instant ocean. I just bought it. 5 hours after adding in the RO water with the salt to my tank, the fish looked stressed with color fading and burn marks. I tested my tank and everything was 0 except ammonia which tested 0.25, but I am using the API test kit. One of my fish died, but my other two were able to recover. My corals and invertebrates were completely unaffected which made me think it was something else. I used the salt for my other tank and same thing happen.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m sorry that you lost your fish. I had something similar happen to me and now I am starting to think it is the batch of instant ocean. I just bought it. 5 hours after adding in the RO water with the salt to my tank, the fish looked stressed with color fading and burn marks. I tested my tank and everything was 0 except ammonia which tested 0.25, but I am using the API test kit. One of my fish died, but my other two were able to recover. My corals and invertebrates were completely unaffected which made me think it was something else. I used the salt for my other tank and same thing happen.

That level is close to normal for a new salt mix and is pretty low. API is also known to show that level when some other kits show less. I’d personally look for issue other than bad salt.

 

[banovack13]

I found this post as I have the same problem. tested tap well water no ammonia tested straight from RODI lines no ammonia tested my rodi storage tank water no ammonia tested tested straight water in bucket no ammonia added salt tested salt mix .5 ammonia and my tank has been running about .5 for a few weeks started doing more wcs no improvement than test everything with above results. I think it is the salt will be switching brands

 

[MnFish1]

I found this post as I have the same problem. tested tap well water no ammonia tested straight from RODI lines no ammonia tested my rodi storage tank water no ammonia tested tested straight water in bucket no ammonia added salt tested salt mix .5 ammonia and my tank has been running about .5 for a few weeks started doing more wcs no improvement than test everything with above results. I think it is the salt will be switching brands

I would consider a couple things first.

1. Is your tank with the supposed 0.5 ppm ammonia doing 'ok'? IF so - I would question the test - not the salt
2. Is the ammonia test your using equally accurate in fresh as well as saltwater? (i.e. the 0 in the RODI may be meaningless if its not designed/used in saltwater) - sorry if you mentioned the test you're using.
3. How old is the tank, etc etc - are you just cycling it.

EDIT - when I looked at the initial post - I saw no answers - nor any pictures - now there are tons of answers and lots of new information. I do not think the API test is the problem - BUT - I will say - it depends on how you do the API test - which needs to be done completely correct to get correct results. IN any case - my recommendations - are the same - its unlikely to be the salt thats the problem - but rather the test.

 

[ApoIsland]

I doubt its the salt. I use I/O to do greater than 50% water changes a few times per year. If there was a problem with the salt I'm fairly certain I would see it.

 

[bruno3047]

I just bought seven 200 gallon boxes of Reef Crystals and I just did a 40 gallon biannual water change/sand cleaning on my 125. The water change went without a hitch, but just to make sure I just tested the water in a 5 gallon bucket I keep around just in case I need some water other than my tank water and this is what I got.

So I would suggest that either you have a faulty test kit, or bad water or a bad batch of salt, which is always a possibility. But I don’t think anyone who uses Reef Crystals needs to panic.

 

[Steve2020]

Just came upon this thread so I don't have to create one. I purchased a Quarantined Magnificent Foxface on Wednesday and put him in my display and my Chocolate Tang was bullying him pretty bad so I decided to restart one of my completely sanitized observation tanks that I sanitized 8mo ago thinking I may need to transfer the Tang for a little while. I use HW Reefer Marine Mix for the main display tank but used Instant Ocean which I had on hand for starting the observation tank. Thursday morning I put in a Ammonia Alert Badge in the tank but decided not to put in the bacteria because the Foxface and Tang became friends overnight. This morning while feeding my fish I noticed the Badge was showing ammonia. Thinking the badge may be bad which happens, I checked the ammonia level with a red sea test kit I have and it was reading somewhere between .2 and .8. Thinking maybe the test kit was bad since I rarely use it I checked my 100gal saltwater holding tank which I made fresh saltwater yesterday using my HW Reefer and it checked in a ZERO ppm. So this showed me my RODI water was not the cause. The only other variable is the Instant Ocean.
I added bacteria this morning because I am still going to start it up just in case. At least I don't have to add Dr Tims ammonia for the time being.
There must be a reason why this salt is so cheap and now I see why. Will never use this crappy stuff again. Fish deserve better.

 

[Tuan’s Reef]

interesting thread. so was it the ammonia or something else? lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There must be a reason why this salt is so cheap and now I see why. Will never use this crappy stuff again. Fish deserve better.

IMO, that is both an incorrect conclusion and a mischaracterization of the results shown in this thread.

 

[Steve2020]

interesting thread. so was it the ammonia or something else? lol

Good question. Maybe Mr. Holmes Farley can chime in and let us know what besides ammonia will cause the badge and test kit to show ammonia in freshly made salt with no ammonia in the RODI water. I find it strange that when I mix two different salt brands using the same RODI water that one brand reads 0ppm and the other reads higher than .2ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Good question. Maybe Mr. Holmes Farley can chime in and let us know what besides ammonia will cause the badge and test kit to show ammonia in freshly made salt with no ammonia in the RODI water. I find it strange that when I mix two different salt brands using the same RODI water that one brand reads 0ppm and the other reads higher than .2ppm.

Well, I think we’ve gone over those issues in the dozens of pages in this thread. Some ammonia is normal in salt mixes, the level does not necessarily correlate with cheapness (at least it did not in the past when Craig Bingman tested a bunch of mixes), test error at the low end is prevalent, and the salt solutions may not have been made from a true single batch of source water and ammonia can rise and fall again in the output of an RO/Di as it depletes.

Might you have had a true 0.4 ppm total ammonia that came from Reef Crystals? Sure. Do other people see it regularly and is it because the salt is cheap? That is not supported by this thread and others.

 

[Steve2020]

Well, I think we’ve gone over those issues in the dozens of pages in this thread. Some ammonia is normal in salt mixes, the level does not necessarily correlate with cheapness (at least it did not in the past when Craig Bingman tested a bunch of mixes), test error at the low end is prevalent, and the salt solutions may not have been made from a true single batch of source water and ammonia can rise and fall again in the output of an RO/Di as it depletes.

Might you have had a true 0.4 ppm total ammonia that came from Reef Crystals? Sure. Do other people see it regularly and is it because the salt is cheap? That is not supported by this thread and others.

Understand what your saying but to be clear, the RODI I used is from the same storage tank. My RODI feeds a 100gal air tight storage tank which feeds my 100gal saltwater mixing/holding tank with pressure and vacuum relief valves built into the lid. I just looked at the study and unless I missed it I did not see one synthetic salt on the list. I use the HW Reefer MarineMix for my main display which is synthetic so no detectable ammonia. I now understand when you say some ammonia is normal in salt mixes but IMO >.2 is unacceptable especially when your in a hurry to get a fish only observation/holding tank up and running. Glad I found this thread. Learned a lot about salt and glad I have been using synthetic salt for the main and coral quarantine tanks since day one after reading all this. Will also start using it for my fish only observation/quarantine/hospital tanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Understand what your saying but to be clear, the RODI I used is from the same storage tank. My RODI feeds a 100gal air tight storage tank which feeds my 100gal saltwater mixing/holding tank with pressure and vacuum relief valves built into the lid. I just looked at the study and unless I missed it I did not see one synthetic salt on the list. I use the HW Reefer MarineMix for my main display which is synthetic so no detectable ammonia. I now understand when you say some ammonia is normal in salt mixes but IMO >.2 is unacceptable especially when your in a hurry to get a fish only observation/holding tank up and running. Glad I found this thread. Learned a lot about salt and glad I have been using synthetic salt for the main and coral quarantine tanks since day one after reading all this. Will also start using it for my fish only observation/quarantine/hospital tanks.

Just jumping in here, since this is of particular interest to me. Back in 1993, I set up a moon jelly display. We had ammonia problems in the system, so I asked my staff to do water changes (since we didn't know how harmful ammonia would be to the jellies). Water change after water change, and I couldn't get the ammonia down below 0.25 ppm. Crazy. For grins, I tested the freshly mixed water - 0.25 ppm. That was when I first learned about trace contaminants in some salt mixes.

I wrote about that here:

Evaluating Synthetic Sea Salts

By C. M. Schwim Seawater is the lifeblood of our marine aquariums. Some aquarists near the coast can obtain natural seawater (NSW) for their aquariums, but m

reefs.com

TLDR: Some freshly mixed synthetic sea salts contain trace contaminants of ammonia (as high as 0.25 ppm) or may have a very high initial pH. These salts may prove lethal to those delicate creatures when first mixed, but in real world use, an aquarium’s bio-filter would render that level of ammonia non-toxic in a few hours, and the pH would stabilize to normal values after aeration.

In the end, I don't worry about it any longer. Copper treatments can add up to 0.55 ppm ammonia, and I just ignore that as well.

Jay