So I cycled my new 60 gal with live sand, dry rock and Tim’s starter + Tim’s ammonia. About 3 weeks, cycle is perfect everything is zero except nitrates. 25% water change and those go to zero too. Added 2 small clowns waited a week, levels are great, water change 10%, next week I added a royal gramma and a fire fish. Started frozen foods as well as a bottle of live copepods. Now API is showing 0.25 ammonia and 20pppm nitrates. So I did 10% and another 10% water change. Numbers aren’t moving. Do I need to keep changing 10% each day or do something else? I know I must’ve fed too much so I scaled that back big time. Royal gramma is looking sad with a torn fin but others are fine.
Ammonia/nitrate question
- Thread starter Kim McD
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You shouldn't be aiming for exactly 0 nitrates, so I wouldn't use that to determine your WC frequency. As for your ammonia results, that's a tough one- API often will give a "false positive" of 0.25 ammonia. However, based on your description, there's really no way to know if this is a case of a false positive or stocking too quickly, as you went from 0 stocking to 4 fish and some unknown quantity of frozen foods and a bottle of live copepods pretty quickly.
The good news is that your biological filter will likely catch up if the 0.25 is a true reading and it should return to 0. In the meantime, I would continue to monitor. In most cases, it will go down, however if it starts to rise, you'll want to add some prime or a similar agent to detoxify the ammonia or perform a water change to dilute the ammonia until your biological filter catches up.
The good news is that your biological filter will likely catch up if the 0.25 is a true reading and it should return to 0. In the meantime, I would continue to monitor. In most cases, it will go down, however if it starts to rise, you'll want to add some prime or a similar agent to detoxify the ammonia or perform a water change to dilute the ammonia until your biological filter catches up.
So hold off on another water change for now and recheck in a couple of days? My ammonia reading seems plausible since It did read zero after cycle was completed and now it’s .25. I was just hoping to bring it down with a 20% water change and scaling back food a lot.
I was thinking about adding ONE crab to help with the extra food, but that’s a bad idea, right?
Thanks SO much.
Thanks for the advice. What’s your favorite test brand? I have Salifert for calcium and phosphate.
I was thinking about adding ONE crab to help with the extra food, but that’s a bad idea, right?
Thanks SO much.
Thanks for the advice. What’s your favorite test brand? I have Salifert for calcium and phosphate.
I would hold off on the crab for now until your biological filter catches up with your bioload. I still believe you should err on the side of caution- while it is possible to have a false positive, I don't believe anyone can determine whether this is a true of false positive given the situation
I think your water change and scaling back food sounds like a reasonable approach- if you are wrong, you're out the cost of salt, but if you are right, you put yourself in the best possible situation to succeed As far as test kits for ammonia go, it's largely one of personal preference. I still prefer API as you will so rarely if ever check your ammonia levels unless you have a situation like this, a bacterial bloom, or a die off event. In those cases, I've found it has enough resolution as I'm looking for levels above 0.25, where false positives are pretty rare. Above all else, it's more important to have a test kit with reagents that aren't expired
(A very common occurence with ammonia). Beyond API, Red Sea and Salifert seem to be very popular brands and have pretty decent accuracy.
Thanks so much for answering. I’ll monitor closely, change water 10% at a time, and wait to add anything else until levels are back to normal.I would hold off on the crab for now until your biological filter catches up with your bioload. I still believe you should err on the side of caution- while it is possible to have a false positive, I don't believe anyone can determine whether this is a true of false positive given the situation
As far as test kits for ammonia go, it's largely one of personal preference. I still prefer API as you will so rarely if ever check your ammonia levels unless you have a situation like this, a bacterial bloom, or a die off event. In those cases, I've found it has enough resolution as I'm looking for levels above 0.25, where false positives are pretty rare. Above all else, it's more important to have a test kit with reagents that aren't expired
you test kit is false indicating free/dangerous ammonia
it shows that in ten thousand running reefs, fully matured, I have links for about 200 of them handy.
your cycle and its params are fine, need no compensation and are on the right path
if you used a calibrated working seneye your free ammonia will be in the thousandths ppm, tenths ppm sustained isnt possible in reefing, at any time. By rule, ammonia compounds until its lethal in a couple days or it trends towards .00x ppm, in a few hours, we can see this by looking at seneye logs there are hundreds avail online. if you took no action your reef and fish still run fine, as long as it runs
it shows that in ten thousand running reefs, fully matured, I have links for about 200 of them handy.
your cycle and its params are fine, need no compensation and are on the right path
if you used a calibrated working seneye your free ammonia will be in the thousandths ppm, tenths ppm sustained isnt possible in reefing, at any time. By rule, ammonia compounds until its lethal in a couple days or it trends towards .00x ppm, in a few hours, we can see this by looking at seneye logs there are hundreds avail online. if you took no action your reef and fish still run fine, as long as it runs
Get a Seachem Ammonia badge and never worry about ammonia again...
LeftyReefer
2500 Club Member
Never huh?
The badges still expire yearly. I think they means you'd have to worry about it yearly, no?
A neat way to look at updated cycle science in 2020 isn't by debating numbers, it's discerning consequence.
That's key, consequence. Not nitrite, or ammonia claimed as a reading from any source including seneye
is our stuff going to die or dart about near death (ammonia has consequence...bioindicators follow inability to control ammonia)
By using key search terms and your # of days underwater, with known conversion nitrate in place + living bioload, you can find thousands of consequence- free, test concerns only starts. Reflecting on the sheer volume of that is the proof of claims, outliers gone means something in a data set. All the fish are alive
bc they're cycled
In any example, did a cycle undo once set
How about other than tests showing failure...where's the consequence in those searched insta tanks
literally in more than ten thousand search returns for stuck cycle, all the fish are alive and the water is clean and nothing died (till skip fallow qt disease evened the game under ten days) and they added beyond just a few fish. we have complete reefs started with bottle bac on day one....so many examples/ patterns are gold in discerning cycle truth and consequence.
your cycle has been consequence-free like the others/noted
That's key, consequence. Not nitrite, or ammonia claimed as a reading from any source including seneye
is our stuff going to die or dart about near death (ammonia has consequence...bioindicators follow inability to control ammonia)
By using key search terms and your # of days underwater, with known conversion nitrate in place + living bioload, you can find thousands of consequence- free, test concerns only starts. Reflecting on the sheer volume of that is the proof of claims, outliers gone means something in a data set. All the fish are alive
bc they're cycled
In any example, did a cycle undo once set
How about other than tests showing failure...where's the consequence in those searched insta tanks
literally in more than ten thousand search returns for stuck cycle, all the fish are alive and the water is clean and nothing died (till skip fallow qt disease evened the game under ten days) and they added beyond just a few fish. we have complete reefs started with bottle bac on day one....so many examples/ patterns are gold in discerning cycle truth and consequence.
your cycle has been consequence-free like the others/noted
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I predict K that as you update your tank day by day, no consequence unfolds.
You could stop testing ammonia and nitrite for the life of this tank...and no consequence will happen/
the only thing that makes ammonia ever be out of spec is a dead fish in the rocks, and even that wont kill your tank (or spike above thousandths seneye shows, nobody has ever hit .1 ppm in a seneye with bioload, a dead tang was left in and still tracked out at .00X ppm =patterns)
I work my cycle threads under the assumption we're all ballparking the measures, and based on the predicted consequence for a given arrangement of wet items. I think if you dumped in half a container of food all at once that would begin to test the system. true mythbusters finds out how to make the myth (stalled cycle) come true
and for me Id start with half a container of pe pellets added all at once, check back in 5 hours. if your tank current is fast it might still not spike
but if current is slow, consequence in the form of gray water begins.
it takes extreme things to get consequence.
You could stop testing ammonia and nitrite for the life of this tank...and no consequence will happen/
the only thing that makes ammonia ever be out of spec is a dead fish in the rocks, and even that wont kill your tank (or spike above thousandths seneye shows, nobody has ever hit .1 ppm in a seneye with bioload, a dead tang was left in and still tracked out at .00X ppm =patterns)
I work my cycle threads under the assumption we're all ballparking the measures, and based on the predicted consequence for a given arrangement of wet items. I think if you dumped in half a container of food all at once that would begin to test the system. true mythbusters finds out how to make the myth (stalled cycle) come true
and for me Id start with half a container of pe pellets added all at once, check back in 5 hours. if your tank current is fast it might still not spike
but if current is slow, consequence in the form of gray water begins.
it takes extreme things to get consequence.
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Another neat analogy I think: in general veterinary medicine or human medicine, does the inability to regulate blood free ammonia levels have quick consequence, and which higher animals don't exhibit tight controls on that param?
Reef tanks are the same
no animals I know are ok with failed kidney systems/ ammonia control is inherent in the animal kingdom to avoid consequence, and our tanks arent free from that same rule.
no reef talk looks fine, works fine, and has ammonia in the tenths not ever not once
Color tube tests make us think reefs permit all kinds of allowances for free ammonia
Ammonia doesn't need continual testing its predictable at all times given account of your fish and margarita snails lol
Reef tanks are the same
no animals I know are ok with failed kidney systems/ ammonia control is inherent in the animal kingdom to avoid consequence, and our tanks arent free from that same rule.
no reef talk looks fine, works fine, and has ammonia in the tenths not ever not once
Color tube tests make us think reefs permit all kinds of allowances for free ammonia
Ammonia doesn't need continual testing its predictable at all times given account of your fish and margarita snails lol
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Nope, buy a two pack and replace them before they expire.Never huh?
The badges still expire yearly. I think they means you'd have to worry about it yearly, no?
Some of the statements you have made are not accurate and very dangerous if taken at face value. I think you are conflating the effect ammonia has on coral, other invertebrates, and fish as being equivalent. This is not the case. Moreover, to borrow your analogy to medicine, you might want to look up some of the patient populations where low level ammonia exposure is a common concern. There are similarly a variety of chronic non-mortality based endpoints associated with ammonia toxicity. Lastly, while you are correct that ammonia does not require continual testing, no one can make the claim that it is predictable at all times. Anyone who has had a child dump fish food into their tank will understand how silly such a claim is
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