OfficeReefer
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There's nothing wrong with this. In fact, you've saved yourself some time. You could add the QT and make it a refugium later.
Ammonia Pegged at 8.0 After 50% Water Change, Nitrate 10ppm, What's is happening!
- Thread starter bstone026
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bstone026
Active Member
My fish are alive still because I have been adding water daily and rotating it from another tank that that did'nt have such a high bio load plus I have lowered my salinty adding RO water thus dilluting the ammonia and now nitrates. And I had salt on hand at the time it just was not enough to bring it down and keep it down. Api are not any different than any other Salicylate Test Kits
bstone026
Active Member
This site recommend by someone on this site goes into deep detail on everything ammonia and how the test kits work
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How are you ruling out disease and what was the conclusion to this?
www.reef2reef.com
Was the bloom you mentioned in this current thread different than this one?
www.reef2reef.com
Red lesions on yellow damsel, Could someone offer advice, pics included.
I am worried about this yellow damsel with red spots lesions...I really hope my other fish can not catch whatever this is, the yellow damsel has been acting a little strange to me. here are best pics. Thank you. You may have to zoom in but they are there and this guy is acting odd.
www.reef2reef.com
Was the bloom you mentioned in this current thread different than this one?
Aquarium turned grey cloudy color overnight, Help!
Hello all, Okay here's what adjustments were made the night before I woke up to a grey cloud lol. Okay first off I got a fresh shipment of fish in the mail which were then added to the tank. Okay now I suspect it's one of these two products I added after the fish were settled, API Stress Zyme...
www.reef2reef.com
I’ve had a bit of a mental block, I’m working nights, lol. Why do you not move all your animals to your other tank?
bstone026
Active Member
There is no disease or parasites in my tank they were parasites treated almost 2 weeks ago, And even if there were the lesions are completely healed for sometime now. So is it possible for every fish and invert to catch the same disease at once. Because after I did that 60% water swap last night there no longer laying in the sand and they actually ate for the first time in two days.
bstone026
Active Member
It's been a few days but do remember it did not last long and cleared up the same day. While the older bloom if I recall required water changes and was more aggressive. I do have a question before I swapped the 8.0ppm water out with 1.5ppm I checked my nitrates and they were hovering around 10-15ppm. I posted picks of the test tubesHow are you ruling out disease and what was the conclusion to this?
Red lesions on yellow damsel, Could someone offer advice, pics included.
I am worried about this yellow damsel with red spots lesions...I really hope my other fish can not catch whatever this is, the yellow damsel has been acting a little strange to me. here are best pics. Thank you. You may have to zoom in but they are there and this guy is acting odd.
Was the bloom you mentioned in this current thread different than this one?
Aquarium turned grey cloudy color overnight, Help!
Hello all, Okay here's what adjustments were made the night before I woke up to a grey cloud lol. Okay first off I got a fresh shipment of fish in the mail which were then added to the tank. Okay now I suspect it's one of these two products I added after the fish were settled, API Stress Zyme...
bstone026
Active Member
For the life of me I can not understand some people are having a hard time believing the api test results. I have a fluval test kit I can use? maybe with the badge and API Tube and a Fluval test some people might start seeing what I am. I am not a newbie to this hobby. I will post fluval Ammonia results shortly since no one trust api
I rate your enjoyment of reefing at the moment Brian as 2/10 because the true concern over ammonia control loss is evident in your posts. You are in true concern over losing your investment, don't know where to turn. I do not get a read of confidence in the destiny of this tank from the collective posts in this thread.
Look how opposite we rolled here, all entrants can be clicked on to track history of tank, sent a message about their cycle call. 10/10 enjoyment
www.reef2reef.com
What's the difference in these two threads? They listened
That's a 38 page thread dedicated solely to your issue. Nobody has posted any new articles yet...
You should buy and add a cheap peppermint shrimp or lysmata shrimp for your tank. That'll show no toxicity, they're weakest organisms in the reefs we keep
Look how opposite we rolled here, all entrants can be clicked on to track history of tank, sent a message about their cycle call. 10/10 enjoyment
How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle
non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...
www.reef2reef.com
What's the difference in these two threads? They listened
That's a 38 page thread dedicated solely to your issue. Nobody has posted any new articles yet...
You should buy and add a cheap peppermint shrimp or lysmata shrimp for your tank. That'll show no toxicity, they're weakest organisms in the reefs we keep
bstone026
Active Member
I will order a digital today for future reference, If didnt enjoy fish keeping I would not have a shead full of old Aquarium stuff from the last 20 years, I have always had either a fresh or saltwater setup. I did not know this post would blow up with half thinking one problem the other half thinking something else. I'm begining to the each experinced reef keeper has there own opions on just about everything. How am I to know who is right? I listen to facts, I spent half the night reading up on the nitrogen process in aquariums and diseases as well. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.I rate your enjoyment of reefing at the moment Brian as 2/10 because the true concern over ammonia control loss is evident in your posts. You are in true concern over losing your investment, don't know where to turn. I do not get a read of confidence in the destiny of this tank from the collective posts in this thread.
Look how opposite we rolled here, all entrants can be clicked on to track history of tank, sent a message about their cycle call. 10/10 enjoyment
How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle
non digital ammonia test kit readings (api, Red Sea, nyos, seachem badges) make you think you aren’t cycled when indeed you are if you owned a $200 expensive seneye meter, you’d never be doubting your cycle status. since .01% of the reefing population owns these, we need a way to help the...
What's the difference in these two threads? They listened
That's a 38 page thread dedicated solely to your issue. Nobody has posted any new articles yet...
You should buy and add a cheap peppermint shrimp or lysmata shrimp for your tank. That'll show no toxicity, they're weakest organisms in the reefs we keep
Attachments
The digital ones just use a light beam and sensor to detect colour change and convert it into a number. Personally, my eyes work just fine.
What are the symptoms presented from the dead fish? Any red gills indicating ammonia burn?
bstone026
Active Member
I got a pic somewhere but they were slightly red, my lemon peel angel has red gills now though. 4 more hour and i will have 2 bags of salt and 2 bottles of fritz. I plan to order more of each later today just incase
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
Put the bacteria after you do the water change. Then stop changing water. Then watch the ammonia drop.
Don’t be scared to dose 1 bottle. Maybe even both if they are the smaller ones.
Posting pictures of any ammonia drop would be nice.
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It's fun to know that if I ever feel the need for more human interaction, I can just post a dark green ammonia test
API chemistry is fairly predictable, but it can be fooled sometimes - cupramine for instance. It indicates significant ammonia. To rule out unexpected false positives, NH3 sensing films (ammonia alert badge) were used. They tell the same story as the total ammonia test, and I know of no way to fool both the total ammonia tests and the NH3 sensing films. The detected ammonia tests also follow dilution rules (water changes decrease), and the kits correctly read no ammonia on other stable system.
Bad livestock outcomes are occuring, and a preceding major tank incident was identified. Loss of power, low O2, bacterial bloom.
While I could speculate on the mechanics of the sources of high ammonia production, and the loss of nitrification / uptake of ammonia, that's harder to pin down. Canister filter indicates nitrification activity may have been highly localized to that, and who knows what the conditions inside the filter became during the loss of power/bacterial bloom. When O2 drops, no nitrification of ammonia to NO2->NO3 can occur.
Whether fish loss is just ammonia or ammonia stress + earlier low O2 stress + other stresses, it's all affecting livestock.
Macroalgae is plentiful, but the uptake rate has limits and the ammonia levels are much higher than what the macros can clear in a short time period. Even a perfectly functioning system like mine clears at a rate of ~2ppm ammonia per day. if ammonia spiked somehow to 8+, my perfectly normal biofilter, algae etc would still have high ammonia for several days.
Cupramine can interfere, yes. trace element copper no. It's not the copper that's interfering in the total ammonia test, it's the -amine part of cupramine.
NH3 sensing films wouldn't get fooled here either.
what Garf said.
Some organisms are far hardier than others to ammonia. And it's really hard to say what the expected lethal outcomes would be for a hobby fish unless you have actual LC50 data in front of you for that genus.
Also the same conditions that generate toxic high ammonia levels also lower pH which mitigate the toxicity. It's hard to kill fish with ammonia in a reef tank.
This and the multitude of ways systems can clear ammonia are why Brandon is right 99% of the time about saying ammonia concerns are all unjustified. But 99% does not = 100%.
Mitigation strategies:
I have no faith in Prime, nor in the hydroxymethanosulfonate Amquel, ClorAm-X etc. There's a chance I could be wrong about the HMS but because NH3 films (ammonia alert badges) don't show they drop ammonia (and they do not in my testing), then I will not recommend or rely on them. Their only known effect I'm certain of is to interfere with total ammonia tests.
Aerate the heck out of the system, maximize flow, run normal light but maybe extend for a few hours. Dump in bottles of biospira and fritz turbostart. Acidify the water (HCl is fine) down to the buffer level for aragonite around ~pH 7.6. Carbon dose - with aeration.
Water change when you can.
These things are all 100% verifiably useful in reducing toxic ammonia.
bstone026
Active Member
I am taking all of your advise from everyone, I've kept ph low doubled oxygen in the tank, The 2 bottles of fritz I ordered are the 80G 32once. I was thinking of first doing a major water change then add 1 bottle mind u this is a 55G tank. And See or watch my water parameters for a day. then maybe do a 50% water change and add second bottle. And we'll see were that lands me at. I also ordered 2 bottles of Fluval cycle biological booster(reviews looked good) Do you have any opinion on that Fluval bio? I just wanted another brand in there in case it has something fritz does not.It's fun to know that if I ever feel the need for more human interaction, I can just post a dark green ammonia test
API chemistry is fairly predictable, but it can be fooled sometimes - cupramine for instance. It indicates significant ammonia. To rule out unexpected false positives, NH3 sensing films (ammonia alert badge) were used. They tell the same story as the total ammonia test, and I know of no way to fool both the total ammonia tests and the NH3 sensing films. The detected ammonia tests also follow dilution rules (water changes decrease), and the kits correctly read no ammonia on other stable system.
Bad livestock outcomes are occuring, and a preceding major tank incident was identified. Loss of power, low O2, bacterial bloom.
While I could speculate on the mechanics of the sources of high ammonia production, and the loss of nitrification / uptake of ammonia, that's harder to pin down. Canister filter indicates nitrification activity may have been highly localized to that, and who knows what the conditions inside the filter became during the loss of power/bacterial bloom. When O2 drops, no nitrification of ammonia to NO2->NO3 can occur.
Whether fish loss is just ammonia or ammonia stress + earlier low O2 stress + other stresses, it's all affecting livestock.
Macroalgae is plentiful, but the uptake rate has limits and the ammonia levels are much higher than what the macros can clear in a short time period. Even a perfectly functioning system like mine clears at a rate of ~2ppm ammonia per day. if ammonia spiked somehow to 8+, my perfectly normal biofilter, algae etc would still have high ammonia for several days.
Cupramine can interfere, yes. trace element copper no. It's not the copper that's interfering in the total ammonia test, it's the -amine part of cupramine.
NH3 sensing films wouldn't get fooled here either.
what Garf said.
Some organisms are far hardier than others to ammonia. And it's really hard to say what the expected lethal outcomes would be for a hobby fish unless you have actual LC50 data in front of you for that genus.
Also the same conditions that generate toxic high ammonia levels also lower pH which mitigate the toxicity. It's hard to kill fish with ammonia in a reef tank.
This and the multitude of ways systems can clear ammonia are why Brandon is right 99% of the time about saying ammonia concerns are all unjustified. But 99% does not = 100%.
Mitigation strategies:
I have no faith in Prime, nor in the hydroxymethanosulfonate Amquel, ClorAm-X etc. There's a chance I could be wrong about the HMS but because NH3 films (ammonia alert badges) don't show they drop ammonia (and they do not in my testing), then I will not recommend or rely on them. Their only known effect I'm certain of is to interfere with total ammonia tests.
Aerate the heck out of the system, maximize flow, run normal light but maybe extend for a few hours. Dump in bottles of biospira and fritz turbostart. Acidify the water (HCl is fine) down to the buffer level for aragonite around ~pH 7.6. Carbon dose - with aeration.
Water change when you can.
These things are all 100% verifiably useful in reducing toxic ammonia.
Miami Reef
Clam Fanatic
Thank you Taricha! I knew you’d be super helpful!
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