Ammonia spike in a 7 month old tank

[Nhjmc]

IDK what is going on I've had an ammonia spike going on for over a week maybe 8 days. About three weeks ago I upgraded from the red sea max (130D) stock skimmer to a tunze 9001 that I still can't get tuned in correctly but that is another story/post. Also put in an "intank media basket".

I replaced media I'd been running all along: Red sea mechanical black sponge/filter which I'd cut in half to increase flow so it wasn't a very big sponge, red sea reef spec carbon and basic filter floss.

The instructions that came with intank basket said to fill with: Chemipure Elite in bottom rack, Purigen in middle rack and in tank filter floss on top rack. I do not run the bio beads although there is a few in chamber of death I can't reach that fell out of net bag few months ago.

Worker at LFS said I stripped out all my good bacteria when changed media that is why ammonia spiking. I'm guessing he's probably correct?

Does this mean I have to cycle all over again?!

My set up: RSM 130D, 34 gal tank with about 10lbs - 15lbs of good live rock and if had to guess around 2" live sand bed. I've been doing 4.5 gallon water changes at least once a week last week. The only thing keeping ammonia down is dosing it with ammonia reducer.

My poor BTA looks horrible, I think a sexy shrimp died had three now only two but no body found, I had a porcelain crab but when doing water change about a week ago I found his two lil claws but no body. I have a pair of clowns, purple firefish, 2 red firefish and a filefish, 2 sexies and like 6 small hermit crabs. Everything is/has been eating great and my corals look pretty good except my zoas aren't looking so hot and one sps almost looks like it's bleaching on a few tips. SO frustrated and after hours of researching/googling I figured just come here and ask for help. Thanks for any suggestions!!

 

[brandon429]

post pics

99% chance u have no free ammonia.

AMMONIA RISING!

36 Gallon reef: No fish 1 CB 1 Anemone Shrimp 1 HC 1 Sally lightfoot 1 run of the mill purple anemone 1 urchin (which sadly is on his way out after all this trauma) 2 Hammerheads A few mushrooms Yesterday- May 16 Ammonia: 0.25 Ph: 7.8 Alk: 4 meq/L Sal: 1.024 N02: 0 No3: 0 Po4: 0.25 Mg: 1130...

www.reef2reef.com

all there applies to your tank. Am now catching up/reading your description to compare to that troubleshoot above.

 

[35ppt]

Redacted

 

[brandon429]

2" live sand bed.


from that sole clue alone, you 1000000% do not have uncontrolled ammonia Im 100% certain. Post pics and Ill use this thread in 3 or 4 very important threads. pic prediction

you post a pic of even fish distribution. no burning, lethargy, darting, lack of motion on bottom or on top struggling for air, which is the signs fish display when ammonia goes above .02 ppm see recent chemistry forum posts on the matter.

water isnt cloudy or smelly, and no dead animals, in other words only a non seneye test kit says theres a problem, not a lack of anything making the tank look like it has total kidney failure.

The # most important thing to do: do not buy anything to remedy a condition that has not occurred.

no bottle bac

no extra filtration

your kit cannot detect normal levels of ammonia conversion, its not for low level read. its for showing you when a dead fish has been allowed to rot in the tank two weeks.

 

[brandon429]

One of the hardest things we'll have to let go of in the hobby as seneye meters come about (digitally accurate ammonia testing) is that there is no "burn" level of ammonia that hovers in a reef tank, or ever rises slowly, over days, as animals behave just fine.

even a dead fish wont spike it, our reefs eat that up. seneye meters have already tracked dead tangs in tanks and we collected the data. it stayed in the thousandths ppm turnover rate, which was the non dead fish condition as well.

there is only overnight wipeout, no middle ground. thats what makes troubleshooting free ammonia even before pics so constant, they're reporting live animals thats how we know its a non seneye test kit generating the concern.

always. in all tanks. done deal. doesnt vary. no reef tank can permit free ammonia in the presence of activated rocks and sand unless a source of undisclosed rot was so prominent as to smell up the house but be omitted from the description.

 

[brandon429]

Matter of fact

after we shore up this one, it might be time for an ammonia troubleshooting sticky here, comprised of these recent threads. predictions, before pics, after pics.

A sticky that posters can read to identify true ammonia measures off the tank life forms would stop lots of concern, and lots of overpurchasing of bottle bac. People literally are concerned their reef is going to die; imagine easing that concern using infallible biology that is free of cost.

 

[Nhjmc]

post pics

99% chance u have no free ammonia.

AMMONIA RISING!

36 Gallon reef: No fish 1 CB 1 Anemone Shrimp 1 HC 1 Sally lightfoot 1 run of the mill purple anemone 1 urchin (which sadly is on his way out after all this trauma) 2 Hammerheads A few mushrooms Yesterday- May 16 Ammonia: 0.25 Ph: 7.8 Alk: 4 meq/L Sal: 1.024 N02: 0 No3: 0 Po4: 0.25 Mg: 1130...

www.reef2reef.com

all there applies to your tank. Am now catching up/reading your description to compare to that troubleshoot above.

K as soon as I get home from work in about an hour I'll post pics and thank you.

 

[brandon429]

Thank you. its important, this type of thread has these direct ties into the hobby:

-can cycles be stalled, ever (meaning buy more of something)
-how can we move reefs home to home and not insult bacteria, if they're so weak as to stall out over 7 months w fish present
-the sheer impact of appoximation testing for ammonia in our hobby, the literal lost peace hours spent contemplating doom for the most predictable compound in reefing (is secretly rock solid under control, always, after cycle until water dries up)

 

[Nhjmc]

The LFS guy is incorrect. Your biological filter comes from your live rock, not the stuff in your media basket. How long has the tank been up? How quickly did you add all those fish? Sounds like he's more familiar with freshwater than salt.

Maybe I'm making some incorrect assumptions but this sounds like a tank that was stocked too heavily and too fast.

i've had tank since October. I added the fish very slowly like had two clowns in it for 2 months before put a dotttyback in it forgot to mention that one, waited another month or so put in two red firefish, another month purple fire fish, another month or two filefish, I have quite a few frags and a huge BTA that hasn't been looking so hot lately and just barely ate a silverside today first thing it's eaten in like 5 -7 days. I'll post pics when I get home.
I am new to the is hobby hopefully I don't get beat up too bad by asking such basic questions.

 

[brandon429]

no this is in support of your reef, so that you can know w confidence its ok. This is a great place to trace out ammonia, we are using highly new approaches thats for sure. if this was 2006, your bacteria have died.

 

[Nhjmc]

i've had tank since October. I added the fish very slowly like had two clowns in it for 2 months before put a dotttyback in it forgot to mention that one, waited another month or so put in two red firefish, another month purple fire fish, another month or two filefish, I have quite a few frags and a huge BTA that hasn't been looking so hot lately and just barely ate a silverside today first thing it's eaten in like 5 -7 days. I'll post pics when I get home.
I am new to the is hobby hopefully I don't get beat up too bad by asking such basic questions.

 

[Nhjmc]

Top image just now bottom image two months ago. Ughh looks like s**t. I’ve got a red Cyano outbreak as well. If you want my water programs I can give you those as well I usually keep it at 79 but it got warm in here today so it jumped up to 81 not good I know I’m getting rid of these two compact T5’s stock Red Sea bulbs for this tank but I’ve got an AI 26 hydra HD on way purchased over the weekend

 

[Nhjmc]

The freaking algea just out-of-control on the glass on the sand I can’t keep up on it

 

[brandon429]

Its a 100% ammonia in control reef. Ive started the reference thread for this technique, well done reefing thats a perfect reef not a troubled one.

You will never need to test for ammonia again if all your animals are accounted for, and corals open, and water clear, and fish distributed acting normal vs signs of free ammonia.

excellent thread. not a single thing is wrong with the reef, its literally in top condition. There is no condition no possible arrangement in that aquarium that has ammonia currently out of the thousandths ppm conversion rate, its just that nonseneye detectors are calibrated to zero...there isn't a zero. its thousandths ammonia at all times in a reef tank barring and issues with dead animals, compounding massive waste stores, or circulation issues.

if a reef is running and looking normal, it has no uncontrolled ammonia, by firm unbreakable rule.

This tank is cleared of any cycle wrongdoing, its released in its own recognizance. If it reoffends as a .25'er it should be chided


the test kit, chide it lol

 

[35ppt]

Redacted

 

[brandon429]

the fanworm is the best confirmation of no free ammonia in that whole system. closed up tight w slightest noncontrol.

then there's 20 other visual cues

these threads are going to be fun. in 100% of free ammonia threads with no missing fish, there isnt any. Truly a tough troubleshooting situation ha nice. twenty more reasons they'll post they have free ammonia

and 20 rebuts, all same verbatim. non seneye ammonia likes to flex an inflexible rule of reefing surface area ability.

Ill put a bounty on it for fun/ Ill paypal anyone here who can link a stalled cycled thread/ammonia in the tenths confirmed in a way that can sell me $30 direct paypal to you (cuz i know it wont be seneye, we'll always be dealing in non seneye data for this bounty)

what this means is: random google searching for stalled cycles isn't going to cut it, thats all non seneye readings and 100% of them with all fish in place had no free ammonia.
Ammonia tracing in reef threads is easy because there are no outliers. One simply needs to trace out surface area, live vs rotting material, and # of days underwater to call free ammonia presence.

 

[Nhjmc]

Okay, that rate of additions sounds reasonable and from the look of your rocks I'm inclined to agree with Brandon and I would suggest false positive readings. Fish acting normal?

I'm not seeing any algae or cyano issues to speak of here. Tank looks good. I mean, it's still in the first year of being setup. You're going to have to be on top of that maintenance until the tank matures more.

Hugh OK cool well it doesn’t help I’m using the API test kit which probably not the most reliable out there I’m gonna order a salifert ammonia test kit. I wish Hannah made an ammonia checker I do have the alk checker I love it. Here’s a better pic of the sand bed

 

[brandon429]

API is handy. Id use it on a large tank, for indicating missing fish I couldnt pull rocks apart.

*API can be used to cycle a dry rock start tank; simply watch for ammonia to drop on it, dont require it to go to hard yellow 'zero'

it has its uses.

I used to hate on them but they're high level indicators. If that rascal says dark green one day, start looking around for something bad ~

only the low level stuff, thats where cycling authors failed to inform us that we differ from reality based on the tools we use to assess. What Im typing can't be found in reef print anywhere, therefore its highly debatable but we're out to years with no losses...eventually pure control over cycling and animal health must speak for itself. We are having to rediscover how surface area control actually works, so we can keep our animals alive and as important keep from making unneeded expenditures. Thousands of threads like yours have already re-purchased bottle bac before posting, thats absolutely unneeded all these tanks are just fine.

I can find youtube videos from macna right now that would validate your condition as lack of bacteria/buy some bottled bac. These videos tell us that reefs can stall, to stall is to fail to control ammonia.


And Im claiming its never happened once in all of reefing (fish accounted for)


we will soon add many work examples regarding ammonia tracing to test these tenets above.

 

[Nhjmc]

Okay, that rate of additions sounds reasonable and from the look of your rocks I'm inclined to agree with Brandon and I would suggest false positive readings. Fish acting normal?

I'm not seeing any algae or cyano issues to speak of here. Tank looks good. I mean, it's still in the first year of being setup. You're going to have to be on top of that maintenance until the tank matures more.

Hugh OK cool well it doesn’t help I’m using the API test kit which probably not the most reliable out there I’m gonna order a salifert ammonia test kit. I wish Hannah made an ammonia checker I do have the alk checker I keep it at 8.5. Here’s a better pic of the sand bed

API is handy. Id use it on a large tank, for indicating missing fish I couldnt pull rocks apart.

*API can be used to cycle a dry rock start tank; simply watch for ammonia to drop on it, dont require it to go to hard yellow 'zero'

it has its uses.

I used to hate on them but they're high level indicators. If that rascal says dark green one day, start looking around for something bad ~

only the low level stuff, thats where cycling authors failed to inform us that we differ from reality based on the tools we use to assess. What Im typing can't be found in reef print anywhere, therefore its highly debatable but we're out to years with no losses...eventually pure control over cycling and animal health must speak for itself. We are having to rediscover how surface area control actually works, so we can keep our animals alive and as important keep from making unneeded expenditures. Thousands of threads like yours have already re-purchased bottle bac before posting, thats absolutely unneeded all these tanks are just fine.

I can find youtube videos from macna right now that would validate your condition as lack of bacteria/buy some bottled bac. These videos tell us that reefs can stall, to stall is to fail to control ammonia.


And Im claiming its never happened once in all of reefing (fish accounted for)


we will soon add many work examples regarding ammonia tracing to test these tenets above.

 

[Nhjmc]

Hugh OK cool well it doesn’t help I’m using the API test kit which probably not the most reliable out there I’m gonna order a salifert ammonia test kit. I wish Hannah made an ammonia checker I do have the alk checker I keep it at 8.5. Here’s a better pic of the sand bed

Thank you so much for the info and kindness! . So much to learn still it’s nuts! I’m always reading online and watching YouTube videos most BRST videos those seem most reliable/legit.