Ammonia through the roof! Need Help ASAP!
- Thread starter Hunter90 HD
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seneye if you ever get one doesn't work right out of the box, the slides and the machine has to be trimmed so that the indication rate for nh3 off the meter is above .001 but within the range of .002-.009 in your display reef--this is the range all displays run at that we see in seneye threads.
brand new tanks with sparse bioload and quarantine tanks with sparse surface area run different
displays run very close to the same, they don't vary even if your topoff water has some ammonia (which is why anyone with a c. jardenai coral worth that much should be on ro/di and keep the filters maintained for clean water, there should be no need for continual water conditioners)
be sure and trim the seneye into spec before consulting, but after one is trimmed we'd love to see the test level updated here.
the degree of surface area we all use in reefing is very high compared to the degree of bioloading we all use. Once you get the seneye trimmed correctly on your running tank, then its very precise in indicating ammonia change events. you'll see feeding rise the nh3, then lower back down as things digest but it won't leave thousandths ppm that's why the upper tuning trim range is .009 during setup.
if your clean water tests zero ammonia that does not mean your tank lacks control, it means your system above has known low ammonia levels as any reef does and the sum total of your conditioners and tan omission aligns with the other collections from our misread posts. if your topoff water does have some ammonia, its not harming your tank those guys in the top example were dosing actual raw ammonia liquid directly into the reefs and tracking 5 minute cures for it, over and over. all reefs consume free ammonia fast
if your topoff water has ammonia in it you'd get betterwater production system, but hold course on the main tank as planned.
brand new tanks with sparse bioload and quarantine tanks with sparse surface area run different
displays run very close to the same, they don't vary even if your topoff water has some ammonia (which is why anyone with a c. jardenai coral worth that much should be on ro/di and keep the filters maintained for clean water, there should be no need for continual water conditioners)
be sure and trim the seneye into spec before consulting, but after one is trimmed we'd love to see the test level updated here.
the degree of surface area we all use in reefing is very high compared to the degree of bioloading we all use. Once you get the seneye trimmed correctly on your running tank, then its very precise in indicating ammonia change events. you'll see feeding rise the nh3, then lower back down as things digest but it won't leave thousandths ppm that's why the upper tuning trim range is .009 during setup.
if your clean water tests zero ammonia that does not mean your tank lacks control, it means your system above has known low ammonia levels as any reef does and the sum total of your conditioners and tan omission aligns with the other collections from our misread posts. if your topoff water does have some ammonia, its not harming your tank those guys in the top example were dosing actual raw ammonia liquid directly into the reefs and tracking 5 minute cures for it, over and over. all reefs consume free ammonia fast
if your topoff water has ammonia in it you'd get betterwater production system, but hold course on the main tank as planned.
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shwareefer
Valuable Member
What is TAN factoring?
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
@brandon429 I am just trying to understand the TAN factor, the NH3 would be 0.0362ppm? i used this online calculator https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/FreeAmmonia.php to give me the NH3 concentration is this correct?
Ahh that is good to know that Prime water conditioner does not effect the Seneye equipment - I have stopped using the tap conditioner now as i use RODI water and i was only using it to neutralise the Ammonia then remove via water changes during cycling.
Yeah i am definitely going to buy one of these Seneye kits and add this to maintenance course...
It is crazy that half the time these test kits going off of color charts are not accurate, someone new to the hobby like i was assumed these were 100% accurate, but then since getting more and more involved in this reef hobby and getting proper advice from advid reefers like yourself is really key to learning truly how reefs work and how to go about maintenance correctly, its a great community here !
Apologies in advance if i am way off with Tan conversion
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Hunter90 HD
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See that is interesting, and i can clearly see now how these color compare kits are not the best in terms of Ammonia testing - That is great feedback from the community to be able to see a trend and identify that actually none of these noncontrol ammonia posts are using the Seneye monitor.for sure, that's a huge tank and the implication is that a single example exists in reefing for seneye showing a running reef tank fail to control its ammonia (not ones where fish disease rots fish in the water, normal-running reef examples, there aren't any)
all ammonia noncontrol posts excluding fish death posts are these color compare kits reporting the params.
in our dosing ammonia thread below, seneye owners add liquid cycling ammonia right into running reefs here below and things spike minor then rebound quickly, 5 mins avg on seneye
if this was api-ran below it'd be sheer madness/red sea included
even if this reef above never buys a seneye, that's his dynamic. The food he's adding is contributing nothing compared to dosing actual liquid ammonium chloride into a reef tank:
Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?
So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...www.reef2reef.com
we need to know if he dosed Prime here as water conditioner. that and a clear white light pic of the kit so we can apply TAN conversions to it. The large nice clownfish are not aerotaxing to the surface to breathe, that ammonia is under control.
c. jardenai corals worth $500 look for a reason in life not to extend, that elegance is wide open.
I wouldnt say the water is the clearest Ive seen but that can easily be from feeding, mixed reactive dosing too. we'd simply hold course, do a nice water change and continue reefing here. cease testing for cycling params for the next few mos, focus on how the tank looks and dont allow water clarity to degrade, take physical action not dosing action.
the #1 hallmark of this thread here and that example thread above is that the title of the alert thread is centered around a test reading, there is no actual loss in the tank. that's the universal shared issue in all those collected examples of false ammonia readings, and anytime we can get a seneye poster to post, their readings never cause alarm (tuned seneye reports nh3 live time, digitally no need for TAN conversion work like we're about to do)
systems don't tolerate a burn level of ammonia while everything runs normally, if he was overfeeding the water would be opaque and things would be clearly stressed. I've seen nopox cause that much clarity issue above/harmless stuff.
Sure, i dont think i have fully understood the effect high ammonia has on fish and corals, visually we would see if a reef has a very high Ammonia level - Corals would not be wide open and fix would be taxing for air around the surface.
I think the issue i have slightly with water clarify is the oils from feeding the fish i do not have a surface skim at the moment so it looks to be sitting on the surface level, perhaps not enough surface agitation?
Could also be down to the bacetria bloom caused by NoPox maybe as it is sliming up a bit in my filterS?
I will as suggested, hold course, keep up water changes not tap conditioner, cease testing cycling params and focus on the appearance of the tank.
I am hoping once the nitrates reduce further from NoPox dosing the bloom will ease off, apparently it can take a few weeks to get the nitrates down to our target Nitrate parameter.
Having seen that thread above of that member loosing fish then causing a massive ammonia spike has give me cause for concern if i am away on holiday for example and a fish dies, how quick it can rip through the fragile ecosystem is alarming and needs swift action - Can the Seneye send notifications to your mobile for example like email or text to advise if ammonia starts to rise?
I can see why some reefers would use a camera to monitor their fish tank if they are away from home for any given reason.
I truly don't know if seneyes sends alerts, that's a very good summary above of all events for sure I think this reef is on the right track for sure. I don't use seneye or any other ammonia testing simply because it's a predictable param at all times in a small no fish setup like my pico reef is, it's really fun collecting other's seneye posts though to build these readout pattern logs
there are zero cases of any display tank in reefing on seneye that is calibrated showing problems with ammonia and no fish rotting among the rocks. It is 100% an issue for non digital testing, nothing is wrong with this reef at all even though it’s near impossible for readers to believe.
there are zero cases of any display tank in reefing on seneye that is calibrated showing problems with ammonia and no fish rotting among the rocks. It is 100% an issue for non digital testing, nothing is wrong with this reef at all even though it’s near impossible for readers to believe.
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blaxsun
10K Club member
What about throwing in one of the Seachem Ammonia Alert monitors? They’re good for in excess of 6 months and will tell you at a glance if anything is amiss with ammonia levels. Not that you still can’t test, but the alerts are relatively inexpensive and it gives you something to compare the tests against.
From the image you shared it looks like a level of 0.8. I have the same Red Sea test kit and it’s not easy to screw up, so I’d go with the suggestion to have the ammonia on your source water tested as well.
From the image you shared it looks like a level of 0.8. I have the same Red Sea test kit and it’s not easy to screw up, so I’d go with the suggestion to have the ammonia on your source water tested as well.
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
Thanks @blaxsun i will get one of these also to give me something to compare the test too.
I have tested my RODI water and interestingly, its rather high?
I would say very close to 0.8 maybe 0.6, 0.7!!
Would this mean that my RODI unit is not filtering correctly? Does RoDI units remove Ammonia?
Could my filters be due a replacement? I have had them for around 8 months so probably a good idea.
I am suspecting if my RODI unit is capable of removing Ammonia if i replaced the filters as i have not tested the RODI Ammonia before, i am using this RODU unit:
I am shocked to see RODI is so high!!
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
@Sshannon - See my reply to Blaxsun
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
@brandon429 - Looks like the Seneye kits can send emails and text alerts.. DECENT! and that makes sense !
I defintly need to go digital with reading Ammonia with one of these kits, i replied to @blaxsun and my source ammonia is very high (see above)^^^... so i am on a loosing battle to begin with anything i do is going to be counter productive because my source is contaminated..
I am shocked to see this amount of Ammonia from my RODI is this normal?
looks like your tank is tolerating it just fine, that's why sensitive corals are open, the fish are eating daily and swimming and having no trouble breathing
are we still accepting your test above as an impending crash, or is it clear your system is fine day to day with the water as is
Your display isn't backed up whatsoever, those same red sea listings you show are shown in our false ammonia thread for eight pages on totally normal tanks. any ammonia getting in is dealt with, like the prior example where they're inputting raw ammonia. that's not causing a backup, or a tolerated burn, they show using seneye
your tank eats up raw ammonia in five mins, are you adding ammonia every five mins, the cycle umps wont check for refreshment rates when trying to peg the kit as accurate and the bacteria as overcome
the key here is non digital ammonia testing and then peers quickly assess the bacteria as nonfunctional. in this thread all ammonia is quickly eaten up, as is happening in your tank.
www.reef2reef.com
are we still accepting your test above as an impending crash, or is it clear your system is fine day to day with the water as is
Your display isn't backed up whatsoever, those same red sea listings you show are shown in our false ammonia thread for eight pages on totally normal tanks. any ammonia getting in is dealt with, like the prior example where they're inputting raw ammonia. that's not causing a backup, or a tolerated burn, they show using seneye
your tank eats up raw ammonia in five mins, are you adding ammonia every five mins, the cycle umps wont check for refreshment rates when trying to peg the kit as accurate and the bacteria as overcome
the key here is non digital ammonia testing and then peers quickly assess the bacteria as nonfunctional. in this thread all ammonia is quickly eaten up, as is happening in your tank.
Does anyone dose ammonia and/or how would one try?
So, after an interesting discussion on nitrate dosing and looking at my Walt Disney coral and seeing it slightly less colorful than I have seen it in others tanks, I have decided I want to learn about and then try dosing ammonia instead of buying 20 damsels. Nitrate additives I see abound and...
www.reef2reef.com
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
That is interesting, i thought the aim was to get the Ammonia as low as possible with only a trace showing, i didnt know corals consume Ammonia though!
Thank you! the amount of times i had to play with the rock and flow to get it just right but the results are pretty cool!
Yeah it is one of the lessons i learned and reading forums having a no sandbed can be useful as it does not trap detritus and the flow should pick it up and get picked up in the filters, even though there i havent got the surface area for bacteria in the sand, i have over compensated by having great surface area for bacteria in my filters, i love the bare bottom so much easier to maintain also apart from the aesthetics.
po4 media now removed will let po4 raise slightly, but will keep it low so it does not creep up too high...
Yeah this is a great help thank you and i will do no problem
.Thank you very much and yeah plenty of $$$, makes maintaining these reef tanks all the rewarding when we get results like that very happy
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Hunter90 HD
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@brandon429 - i think the system is okay day to day, however i did find that my source RODI had an ammonia reading of around 0.6-0.7
Is this normal from RODI water?
I am not sure if my filters need replacing or if the RODI unit i got is even capable of removing Ammonia?
needs to redo the ro di
and its not hurting your reef at all, recall our thread where they dump in directly liquid cycling ammonia, it would test opaque green per above, that's a nothing snack for a hungry biosystem.
Never let anyone trick you by saying your animals are burned, you can plainly see they're not. They're being fed well with nitrogen and behave normally in every way, sensitive fish and reef inverts its plain as day in your pictures.
Non-seneye owning reefs aren't behaving differently than seneye-owning reefs, reefs behave the same after a cycle we can see it in your animal health and nonirritation. adding ammonia to a reef does not automatically burn it, it feeds it well, its in the link above
When you get your seneye, tune and trim it. message those guys above for steps if needed.
when you hook it up, and it says your nh3 is .04, that's specifically because it was plugged in and not tuned.
But if you read that ammonia dosing thread where nobody's fish were 'burned' while acting normal, you'll see the baseline reading range ALL displays run at
youll need to trim to those ranges, in your display and agreed fix the sourcewater for a zero load test baseline. use your own tank's bioload as the calibration for the tune, not the boosted load from the ammonia source water though its handled fine in the above thread we see plainly.
once your seneye reads in the ranges displays run at, with happy fish and open corals and matured rock, then you can rely on that seneye to indicate changes precisely, best equipment we have so far.
its pH and lux meter seem lacking, but its impact on cycle science can't be overstated. when trimmed.
and its not hurting your reef at all, recall our thread where they dump in directly liquid cycling ammonia, it would test opaque green per above, that's a nothing snack for a hungry biosystem.
Never let anyone trick you by saying your animals are burned, you can plainly see they're not. They're being fed well with nitrogen and behave normally in every way, sensitive fish and reef inverts its plain as day in your pictures.
Non-seneye owning reefs aren't behaving differently than seneye-owning reefs, reefs behave the same after a cycle we can see it in your animal health and nonirritation. adding ammonia to a reef does not automatically burn it, it feeds it well, its in the link above
When you get your seneye, tune and trim it. message those guys above for steps if needed.
when you hook it up, and it says your nh3 is .04, that's specifically because it was plugged in and not tuned.
But if you read that ammonia dosing thread where nobody's fish were 'burned' while acting normal, you'll see the baseline reading range ALL displays run at
youll need to trim to those ranges, in your display and agreed fix the sourcewater for a zero load test baseline. use your own tank's bioload as the calibration for the tune, not the boosted load from the ammonia source water though its handled fine in the above thread we see plainly.
once your seneye reads in the ranges displays run at, with happy fish and open corals and matured rock, then you can rely on that seneye to indicate changes precisely, best equipment we have so far.
its pH and lux meter seem lacking, but its impact on cycle science can't be overstated. when trimmed.
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DrZoidburg
Valuable Member
@Hunter90 HD Maybe getting break through of natural ammonia. Also some city disinfectants can be measured as ammonia not removed well by some carbons. 8 months membrane is not a unheard of life span. May look into a better carbon block replacement or di resin after. Another thing to check the membrane itself I would guess that was the first problem. Never let your fish "tolerate" ammonia.
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
@Sshannon - Thanks!
@DrZoidburg - Yeah i do not have the best RO system it is a budget one - and yeah i read about a RO units last night and i found out about the di resin and i am thinking about purchasing this RODI unit:
6 Stage 50 Gallon Per Day Reverse Osmosis RODI System
Produce up to 190 litres per day of Pure water for virtually any application with this 6-Stage RO System. Features high capacity 10” Sediment and Carbon Filters Post membrane Deionisation and Carbon filters condition the water further Rejects up to 99.8% of water born contaminants, bacteria and...
www.osmotics.co.uk
I live in the UK and this supplier seems reputable with good reviews.
My water supply uses chlorine not chloramine also so need to make sure the filter is for use with removing chlorine.
And absolutely not acceptable! will buy this replacement unit and hopefully will filter more than less all the ammonia from source.
DrZoidburg
Valuable Member
If anything do no water change let it go down on its own till you get the parts fixed, and every thing tests ok. Sometimes like if its from a natural reservoir or holding pond can get ammonia.
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Hunter90 HD
Active Member
@DrZoidburg @brandon429 @Sshannon.
Update 1 month later.
So I have replaced my RO unit for a RODI unit, now producing <0.01 Ammonia, no Nitrates etc... Found out DI resin is what filters the Ammonia and a normal RO unit without the DI resin will not remove ammonia.
I have replaced 50% of the water last Thursday and replaced with new RODI water, i have added two more bio filter medias: https://marineaquatics.co.uk/shop/media/brightwell-media/brightwell-xport-bio-brick/ and been dosed MicroBacter XLM all week to rapidly establish bacteria.
I have had a bit if a brown (diatom) outbreak since i have stopped running my skimmer, stopped dosing NoPox and removed carbon media, purgien from filters to allow the bacteria to grow.
I have been testing my Ammonia all week literally every day and have remained at 0.8 using the Red Sea Marine Care test kit.
As everything looks healthy and no sign of Ammonia stress on corals / fish i brought a Salifert Ammonia test kit today and found Salifert was reading a 0.25 reading!!
I got a feeling @brandon429 perhaps the Red Sea kit was still being effected by the water conditioner i used ages ago (start of this conversation) which i have ceased using any tap conditioners now - I believe the Salifert Ammonia test kit is more accurate as visually the tank is thriving.
I am still looking to buy the Seneye meter as my Ammonia monitor for the future.
What is your thoughts @brandon429 - Have you had much experience with the Salifert test kit are they effected by water conditioners as much as the Red Sea test kit?
I am thinking of starting my skimmer, adding nopox dosing, putting my Carbon back in the water as looks like the bacteria has taken hold but want to polish the water off now as it is looking a bit brown.
Lee
Update 1 month later.
So I have replaced my RO unit for a RODI unit, now producing <0.01 Ammonia, no Nitrates etc... Found out DI resin is what filters the Ammonia and a normal RO unit without the DI resin will not remove ammonia.
I have replaced 50% of the water last Thursday and replaced with new RODI water, i have added two more bio filter medias: https://marineaquatics.co.uk/shop/media/brightwell-media/brightwell-xport-bio-brick/ and been dosed MicroBacter XLM all week to rapidly establish bacteria.
I have had a bit if a brown (diatom) outbreak since i have stopped running my skimmer, stopped dosing NoPox and removed carbon media, purgien from filters to allow the bacteria to grow.
I have been testing my Ammonia all week literally every day and have remained at 0.8 using the Red Sea Marine Care test kit.
As everything looks healthy and no sign of Ammonia stress on corals / fish i brought a Salifert Ammonia test kit today and found Salifert was reading a 0.25 reading!!
I got a feeling @brandon429 perhaps the Red Sea kit was still being effected by the water conditioner i used ages ago (start of this conversation) which i have ceased using any tap conditioners now - I believe the Salifert Ammonia test kit is more accurate as visually the tank is thriving.
I am still looking to buy the Seneye meter as my Ammonia monitor for the future.
What is your thoughts @brandon429 - Have you had much experience with the Salifert test kit are they effected by water conditioners as much as the Red Sea test kit?
I am thinking of starting my skimmer, adding nopox dosing, putting my Carbon back in the water as looks like the bacteria has taken hold but want to polish the water off now as it is looking a bit brown
.Lee
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Hunter90 HD
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@brandon429 - Interestingly i read this from a review on the Salifert Ammonia test kit:@DrZoidburg @brandon429 @Sshannon.
Update 1 month later.
So I have replaced my RO unit for a RODI unit, now producing <0.01 Ammonia, no Nitrates etc... Found out DI resin is what filters the Ammonia and a normal RO unit without the DI resin will not remove ammonia.
I have replaced 50% of the water last Thursday and replaced with new RODI water, i have added two more bio filter medias: https://marineaquatics.co.uk/shop/media/brightwell-media/brightwell-xport-bio-brick/ and been dosed MicroBacter XLM all week to rapidly establish bacteria.
I have had a bit if a brown (diatom) outbreak since i have stopped running my skimmer, stopped dosing NoPox and removed carbon media, purgien from filters to allow the bacteria to grow.
I have been testing my Ammonia all week literally every day and have remained at 0.8 using the Red Sea Marine Care test kit.
As everything looks healthy and no sign of Ammonia stress on corals / fish i brought a Salifert Ammonia test kit today and found Salifert was reading a 0.25 reading!!
I got a feeling @brandon429 perhaps the Red Sea kit was still being effected by the water conditioner i used ages ago (start of this conversation) which i have ceased using any tap conditioners now - I believe the Salifert Ammonia test kit is more accurate as visually the tank is thriving.
I am still looking to buy the Seneye meter as my Ammonia monitor for the future.
What is your thoughts @brandon429 - Have you had much experience with the Salifert test kit are they effected by water conditioners as much as the Red Sea test kit?
I am thinking of starting my skimmer, adding nopox dosing, putting my Carbon back in the water as looks like the bacteria has taken hold but want to polish the water off now as it is looking a bit brown
Lee
"The kit says it tests for NH3, not NH3/NH4 total combined like many of the other kits out there (especially API). Much like the Seachem ammonia alert badge everyone also complains about, I think you have to keep in mind that you're seeing no or low toxic ammonia, however if you test w/API you'll get a reading with a lot of ammonium showing up as well, which is not toxic."
So the problem with the Red Sea Test kit it tests for NH3/NH4 combined measuring NH4 which is not toxic so the only one we need to be concerned about is NH3 which is what the Salifert Ammonia test kit tests for.
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