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Randy Holmes-Farley

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i think ammonia is a much worse offender than nitrite. nitrite is less harmful but still no good imo.

Nitrite is not a concern and is not worth measuring, unless one is trying to determine if a nitrate reading may be falsified by nitrite being present.

Concerns about nitrite are a carryover from freshwater systems where it is a concern. But no real concern extends into marine systems.
 
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stephenm894

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the tank is 100% cycled. its not possible to have new benthic growth on top of uncycled surfaces. your ammonia is running in the thousandths ppm. this cycle is done, and added to our false stuck cycle thread. darn nice. agreed nitrite has no bearing dont even own the kit.
So I called the local fish store actually it’s not so local because it’s probably 80 miles away anyway he said that I should let my tank cycle more and maybe put some more bacteria in there because my ammonia levels are high at .25 to .5 to add more fish/inverts
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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read that thread though, see if he seems correct after :)


also, email a link of that thread to him, or post on their facebook, let me know if he changes position. once we build a hundred examples of something up, #101 isn't going to be off kilter.

you have access to the exact same timely start dates as any reefing convention has. and your allowed start date was probably days or weeks ago, never heard how long that tank has been set up / but the diatoms made us not need to know that. handy for proofing, though.

*new cycling science comes from reef2reef, not other boards, and not from any LFS so I dont fault him for not knowing. the only cycles that work timely are those from here


on any other board, you'd 100% miss the convention start date and could not reef till mid September, at best. you cannot find new cycling science in any books or articles, they're still from 1997 at best (the knowledge they relay is old, dated, yes newer articles exist but they relay incorrect info such as ignoring nitrite, you can't find that written anywhere other than where Randy posts)

ask your LFS person if nitrite is required to be tracked in cycling, they will all say yes. That's how you know they're behind a couple decades, but meaning well.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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another fun exercise to show that all cycles complete long before api allows us to see it:

try and find on google, and link here, any single one example of a failed tank cycle where the new fish died. this is always the conveyed risk from boards, LFS and online peers. try and find just one, and link it here. putting fish into an uncycled tank burns them, they show it by acting crazy, and they die in a day or two.

the rationale is this: there's easily a million logged cycles online we can all see in two seconds search. and if cycles dont complete by day ten like a chart says, or instantly when we add bottle bac, then there will be some deaths logged in the million posts. link just one :)


new cycling science uses that data pattern to make the rules of risk, allowed start dates etc.

we are trained buyers is the difference, the sellers always get the easy cheap and reliable ways. we stole the info from them and posted it for free, like good web nerds would do by nature.

the way you can feel better about your cycle being completed is by trying to find one single example going back twenty years online of a cycle that didn't. its merely a lark, a stated risk, with zero occurrences I have ever seen.
 
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stephenm894

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another fun exercise to show that all cycles complete long before api allows us to see it:

try and find on google, and link here, any single one example of a failed tank cycle where the new fish died. this is always the conveyed risk from boards, LFS and online peers. try and find just one, and link it here. putting fish into an uncycled tank burns them, they show it by acting crazy, and they die in a day or two.

the rationale is this: there's easily a million logged cycles online we can all see in two seconds search. and if cycles dont complete by day ten like a chart says, or instantly when we add bottle bac, then there will be some deaths logged in the million posts. link just one :)


new cycling science uses that data pattern to make the rules of risk, allowed start dates etc.

we are trained buyers is the difference, the sellers always get the easy cheap and reliable ways. we stole the info from them and posted it for free, like good web nerds would do by nature.
I actually put two corals goniopora and clove polyp and two clown fish and five hermit crabs in to snails the same day that I set my tank up. And they are all doing just fine
 
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brandon429

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while your online peers might scorn for doing that, we have already studied common bottle bac with seneye, a good meter, and bottle bac you added (or wet live rock from another tank) handles waste immediately. the legit reason to buy bottle bac is for legit quickcycling; many peers confuse the common .25/.5 of api with a burning that is happening

but you cant burn those added items and have them act normal, those are among the most sensitive organisms we keep in aquarium biology. you utilized new cycling science by avoiding the typical wait we use for unassisted cycles:

a cycle still completes anyway by day 30 or sooner (Neon Rabbits findings on seneye) even if you feed nothing and add no bottle bac. merely water, and wait, and no testing will still cycle any reef in a month.

that brings us to our third LFS test: anyone reading, call your lfs and ask them if an unassisted cycle can even happen. They will all say no, if you dont buy something, you can't cycle.


***all LFS mean well, they just dont spend ten hours a day online nerding out since 2001 to catch core patterns.
 

ying yang

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I actually put two corals goniopora and clove polyp and two clown fish and five hermit crabs in to snails the same day that I set my tank up. And they are all doing just fine
Yeah i noticed the coral and hermits in post 7 you made and inverts generally more sensitive than fishes i read so if they still alive,all seems ok
 

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stephenm894

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Yeah i noticed the coral and hermits in post 7 you made and inverts generally more sensitive than fishes i read so if they still alive,all seems ok
The snow on the floor actually got eaten by the hermit crabs because he flipped over everything else is doing fine also there’s 2 clownfish not in the shot
 
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stephenm894

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while your online peers might scorn for doing that, we have already studied common bottle bac with seneye, a good meter, and bottle bac you added (or wet live rock from another tank) handles waste immediately. the legit reason to buy bottle bac is for legit quickcycling; many peers confuse the common .25/.5 of api with a burning that is happening

but you cant burn those added items and have them act normal, those are among the most sensitive organisms we keep in aquarium biology. you utilized new cycling science by avoiding the typical wait we use for unassisted cycles:

a cycle still completes anyway by day 30 or sooner (Neon Rabbits findings on seneye) even if you feed nothing and add no bottle bac. merely water, and wait, and no testing will still cycle any reef in a month.

that brings us to our third LFS test: anyone reading, call your lfs and ask them if an unassisted cycle can even happen. They will all say no, if you dont buy something, you can't cycle.


***all LFS mean well, they just dont spend ten hours a day online nerding out since 2001 to catch core patterns.
Also I’ve had diatoms the past 4 or 5 days if that says anything.
 

andiesreef

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Nitrite is not a concern and is not worth measuring, unless one is trying to determine if a nitrate reading may be falsified by nitrite being present.

Concerns about nitrite are a carryover from freshwater systems where it is a concern. But no real concern extends into marine systems.
ah i keep planted tanks as well so that carryover makes sense. i had no idea it had such a small effect on a marine system.
 

4tanks

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So I called the local fish store actually it’s not so local because it’s probably 80 miles away anyway he said that I should let my tank cycle more and maybe put some more bacteria in there because my ammonia levels are high at .25 to .5 to add more fish/inverts
I'd listen to Brandon if I were you very well known reliable member with good advice I also agree with what he is saying
 
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the reason itll be ok is bc your tests are misreading we get those readings on full running reefs routinely.

post a pic of your tank we can fix this easily.

along w tank pic, what brand of cycling bacteria did you use, and how many days has it been in the tank / water

the majority, not the minority, report the same readings using those kits on full running reefs.

to know your ammonia we dont need any kit, we need only pics and a timeline. all reefs chart the same way once we reach a certain timeline based on boosters used, and they dont vary at all other than for wildly reading non digital test kits.
UPDATE:So this is week three of my 24 gallon all in one Nano reef tank with fish I put in the same day as I started it. So the diatoms are gone now I’m starting to get a green algae appearing on my rock almost lime green. I have a full copepod colony and they are everywhere I have a stomatella snail And even 10 or 15 feather duster’s. Here’s a pic of all my copepods…I can confirm fish can be Put in a tank the same day you said it up as long as you do it right also make sure they are Hardy fish.

24347FA8-7933-4501-968C-8E1CCF5AC409.jpeg
 
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stephenm894

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UPDATE:So this is week three of my 24 gallon all in one Nano reef tank with fish I put in the same day as I started it. So the diatoms are gone now I’m starting to get a green algae appearing on my rock almost lime green. I have a full copepod colony and they are everywhere I have a stomatella snail And even 10 or 15 feather duster’s. Here’s a pic of all my copepods…I can confirm fish can be Put in a tank the same day you said it up as long as you do it right also make sure they are Hardy fish.

24347FA8-7933-4501-968C-8E1CCF5AC409.jpeg
Also I’ve added one green clown Gobi but he looks blue one tiger conch 1 sand sifting star And three zebra turbo snails.
 

ying yang

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Going good then,good luck and enjoy tank.
One thing i never seen is explosion of copepods in my tank. Its 6 months old now but fish probably eating them all ^_^
Star fish cool little creatures,i will be waiting till there more micro fauna in my sand bed before get one as i read often eat all the fauna from sandbed and often mortalities,ovbiously some starfish hardier than others and can target feed them so just bare that in mind as you really young tank ( not telling you what to do as your tank not mine and im sure you already researched them and got something in place to keep them well fed and healthy .
Good luck and enjoy tank best you can ^_^
 
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stephenm894

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Going good then,good luck and enjoy tank.
One thing i never seen is explosion of copepods in my tank. Its 6 months old now but fish probably eating them all ^_^
Star fish cool little creatures,i will be waiting till there more micro fauna in my sand bed before get one as i read often eat all the fauna from sandbed and often mortalities,ovbiously some starfish hardier than others and can target feed them so just bare that in mind as you really young tank ( not telling you what to do as your tank not mine and im sure you already researched them and got something in place to keep them well fed and healthy .
Good luck and enjoy tank best you can ^_^
Thank you and yeah I have seaweed and a clip right now that I use sometimes but I think he’s got a little bit of food because again I’m starting to go into another algae bloom it’s green so I assume green algae so it won’t be but probably a few days before he has it all he needs to eat LOL.
 

ying yang

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Im interested in sand sifting star fish and i know there probably many varities but i was with the understanding they didnt eat algae,and they needed a well established sandbed otherwise they slowly starve to death.
So interested to know which sand sifting star fish you have found that eats algae or anything else you found out can feed them as i could get one much sooner rather than waiting till my sand bed is more mature.
 

brandon429

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Stephen I appreciate that follow up, in another thread these cycling techniques are debated hotly but very simple updates from aquarists who used an uncommon method is the best validation of all.
 
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Im interested in sand sifting star fish and i know there probably many varities but i was with the understanding they didnt eat algae,and they needed a well established sandbed otherwise they slowly starve to death.
So interested to know which sand sifting star fish you have found that eats algae or anything else you found out can feed them as i could get one much sooner rather than waiting till my sand bed is more mature.
First off I don’t know why live aquaria puts the max size at 1 foot for a sand sifting star I’ve watched many videos and seen many sand sifting stars in aquariums through local fish stores I’ve never seen one anywhere near that I think the max size for a sand sifting stars probably around 3 to 4 inches also the link that you put on live aquaria that’s the exact same one I have it looks the exact same right now I don’t know where he is he’s somewhere in the sand but I assume he’s doing pretty good because when I put him and that tiger conch that I have they both clean the sand like crazy my sand is perfectly white now and I had a full on diatom bloom.
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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They’re neat animals but my girlfriend just skipped buying one because she didn’t want to have to add feed to the sandbed to support one (required in new tanks, they only do well in established aged reefs) and because she didnt want the nutrient bomb that happens when it dies up under a rock stack where we can’t get to it.


for the first few months of keeping those stars, things run normally

those animals are quite sensitive to ammonia issues so by extension his presence in your tank was another handy mine canary among many.
 
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