Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The diversity of a reef system under a microscope is pretty unimaginable to anyone who hasn't investigated firsthand.

just to be provocative - I bet a microscope biodiversity survey of a tank would tell you more about system health than an ICP test.
 

piehunter

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
35
Reaction score
11
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Got myself a bottle of Spongexcel so ready to give it a go

Current results : 40 to 50 ppm No3
0.50 ppm Po4
0 ppm Silicates

I have the sandbed removed and the dinos is only on the rocks

Are them test results perfect for nutrients in the system ?

Ok so i have now got a better understanding of what i should be doing with the silicate dosing as i don't think i did it right .. so here my is revised plan

First i need to get my tank growing all types of algae so waterchanges or trace elements dosing to get algae growing along with elevated N03 & P04 before i start silicate dosing.

Do i need to aim for a 1:1 ratio with silicates as my N03 is quite high or just keep upping the dosage ?

Once i start dosing stop water changes or trace element dosing and keep raising the dosage of silicates until full on bloom occurs then keep dosing silicates until it seems that trace element limitations kick in and let diatoms outcompete dinos for that trace element ?

Thanks again
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
First i need to get my tank growing all types of algae so waterchanges or trace elements dosing to get algae growing along with elevated N03 & P04 before i start silicate dosing.

Do i need to aim for a 1:1 ratio with silicates as my N03 is quite high or just keep upping the dosage ?

Once i start dosing stop water changes or trace element dosing and keep raising the dosage of silicates until full on bloom occurs then keep dosing silicates until it seems that trace element limitations kick in and let diatoms outcompete dinos for that trace element ?

Thanks again

It may not be necessary (or possible) to get to equal N and Si concentrations - especially if N is high.
A couple of ppm Si should be enough.

You may see a small dusting of diatoms, but unlikely to see a full-on bloom, because there are limitations, but that is fine.
A small smattering of diatoms and a couple of ppm Si should be enough to add significant competition pressures to any dinos.
 

piehunter

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
35
Reaction score
11
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
It may not be necessary (or possible) to get to equal N and Si concentrations - especially if N is high.
A couple of ppm Si should be enough.

You may see a small dusting of diatoms, but unlikely to see a full-on bloom, because there are limitations, but that is fine.
A small smattering of diatoms and a couple of ppm Si should be enough to add significant competition pressures to any dinos.

My tank has some what stood still at the minute with algae growth in general even though i have dosed phosphates to make sure there are plenty there .. dinos aren’t really getting worse but reducing some rocks that had dinos are starting to clear up .. crabs are eating away on them rocks that are starting to clear , they have never touched the dinos and have survived throughout the battle so i think they are munching on a mixture of gha and diatoms .. i have stopped with dosing silicates but dosed a whole bottle of spongexcel over the space of a few weeks should i get another bottle and start once again or just leave tank as is without dosing trace elements of water changes and wait it out then letting the diatoms suck up the trace elements ?
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
My tank has some what stood still at the minute with algae growth in general even though i have dosed phosphates to make sure there are plenty there .. dinos aren’t really getting worse but reducing some rocks that had dinos are starting to clear up .. crabs are eating away on them rocks that are starting to clear , they have never touched the dinos and have survived throughout the battle so i think they are munching on a mixture of gha and diatoms .. i have stopped with dosing silicates but dosed a whole bottle of spongexcel over the space of a few weeks should i get another bottle and start once again or just leave tank as is without dosing trace elements of water changes and wait it out then letting the diatoms suck up the trace elements ?
Silica gets depleted - I'd keep some handy and test occasionally to make sure you have Si consistently present to allow diatoms to take dino niche.
Where are your dinos showing up now? Sand? What do you have as far as sand bed herbivores?
 

piehunter

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
May 10, 2018
Messages
35
Reaction score
11
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Silica gets depleted - I'd keep some handy and test occasionally to make sure you have Si consistently present to allow diatoms to take dino niche.
Where are your dinos showing up now? Sand? What do you have as far as sand bed herbivores?

I have removed the sandbed with no sand herbivores so they just stick to the rocks and back glass where there is some GHA .. need to order some up then and is there any test kits that work apart from the Hanna ?

So just keep dosing silicates to keep the diatoms happy and let them battle the dinos for the little trace elements that remain?
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
is there any test kits that work apart from the Hanna ?

So just keep dosing silicates to keep the diatoms happy and let them battle the dinos for the little trace elements that remain?

Someone used seachem, and reported it worked, salifert has not.

Yes, keep diatoms happy.
 

CDavmd

AstroReefer
View Badges
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
864
Reaction score
1,329
Location
Massachusetts
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi guys, I'm looking for a link I lost. It was a nice site with a description and images of the various dinoflagellates species. I thought I had seen it in one of the threads but I can't seem to find it anymore.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Hi guys, I'm looking for a link I lost. It was a nice site with a description and images of the various dinoflagellates species. I thought I had seen it in one of the threads but I can't seem to find it anymore.
Algaeid.com
Look under identification section.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Has anyone had luck with using vibrant on this species?
I was thinking the other day of experimenting with vibrant for this.
If I were thinking about how to use it in the context of amphidinium, I'd aim for a reduced dose - like 1/2 or 1/4 or so of recommended amount. The idea would be that a small enough dose to not hurt the algae that you're trying to get to compete with the Dinos but the purpose or benefit might be to introduce bacteria to disrupt the Dinos bacterial community in the sand.
 

._Z_.

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
338
Location
Houston TX
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I was thinking the other day of experimenting with vibrant for this.
If I were thinking about how to use it in the context of amphidinium, I'd aim for a reduced dose - like 1/2 or 1/4 or so of recommended amount. The idea would be that a small enough dose to not hurt the algae that you're trying to get to compete with the Dinos but the purpose or benefit might be to introduce bacteria to disrupt the Dinos bacterial community in the sand.

Interesting indeed. I was thinking of trying vibrant as well. But I was personally thinking of a higher than normal dose so as to eradicate everything, then assuming the dinos were suppressed enough, raise nutrients back to levels that Dinos can’t compete at.

That idea was based on the assumption that it would take a healthy dose of vibrant to knock the dinos down, but that may not be the case at all.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Interesting indeed. I was thinking of trying vibrant as well. But I was personally thinking of a higher than normal dose so as to eradicate everything, then assuming the dinos were suppressed enough, raise nutrients back to levels that Dinos can’t compete at.

That idea was based on the assumption that it would take a healthy dose of vibrant to knock the dinos down, but that may not be the case at all.

Don't misunderstand. Its not the case that dinos dislike elevated P & N. Its that they get outcompeted by other things at those levels. So if the vibrant is added at "eradicate all algae" levels, then it won't allow competition to suppress dinos, even if it does reduce their population a lot.

I don't know about what dose vibrant begins to do something vs amphidinium. For other chemical attacks - oxidizers, algaecides - amphidinium requires higher doses than other dinos to see an effect. Likely because it hugs the sand tightly, and goes on the underside of sand grains at night which offers some level of protection.
But vibrant being a bacterial agent, the results may be different.
 

._Z_.

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
293
Reaction score
338
Location
Houston TX
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Its that they get outcompeted by other things at those levels. So if the vibrant is added at "eradicate all algae" levels, then it won't allow competition to suppress dinos, even if it does reduce their population a lot.

Good point. I was thinking that if I knock everything down with vibrant, then stop dosing vibrant and allow everything to re-compete at levels which dinos are known to lose at, that I might find success. Perhaps that is a bit extreme, however.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Good point. I was thinking that if I knock everything down with vibrant, then stop dosing vibrant and allow everything to re-compete at levels which dinos are known to lose at, that I might find success. Perhaps that is a bit extreme, however.
The wipe everything - then complete is usually not helpful, because dinos can move into unoccupied real estate faster than most other things.

But I am hopeful that there is an exploitable balance somewhere with vibrant at levels that don't wipe everything.

I know vibrant doses for dinos were worked out with ostreopsis in mind, so whatever you do with vibrant and amphidinium will be an experiment. Document it well.
 

JAMSOURY

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,360
Reaction score
462
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
So I blacked out for three days and haven’t seen the Dino’s in a couple weeks. Been dosing N and P. Anyone with a similar situation or possibly it showed up a month later?
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So I blacked out for three days and haven’t seen the Dino’s in a couple weeks. Been dosing N and P. Anyone with a similar situation or possibly it showed up a month later?
I grew large cell amphidinium in a beaker in total darkness for about 2 weeks. They were happy and active.
So darkness alone doesn't seem to be a strong factor against these kind.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 20 51.3%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 22 56.4%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 8 20.5%
  • None.

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Other.

    Votes: 3 7.7%
Back
Top