Amphidinium Dinoflagellate Treatment Methods

Radman73

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Messages
1,514
Reaction score
1,714
Location
Winter Garden, FL
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So I would like to report back after about 3 months I think I am finally dino free! I had a bad case of amphidinium and ostreopsis that I confirmed under a microscope. I think identification is important to eliminate the guess work out of what you are doing.

First, what did not work. DinoX. I believe this product might reduce their numbers or keep them in check, but I mostly believe this product to be a waste of time and money.

UV Sterilizer. I have mixed opinions on what this did or did not do. I cant prove much since I was doing other things at the same time. What I can say is that if I turned it off and forgot to turn it back on for more than 12 hours it seemed like the dinos flared up. When left running it seemed to almost maintain the current population and prevent as much spreading. All of this is just a guess tho.

What I believe worked and would recommend. BIOIDIVERSITY!!!
I think the biggest problem is our tanks start out too clean now days. I used dry rock and dry sand and let my nitrates and phosphates completely bottom out. I saw very little results until I maintained Nitrates at 5-10ppm(got as high as 25ppm) and phosphates at 0.2 ppm. Dosing Microbacteria7 and Silicates. Added a bunch of pods and dosed live phyto. Now it was not an overnight fix and I think too many give up because it doesn't fix the issue right away. I dosed both microbacteria7 and silicates for maybe 2 months until I got to the point I am at today.

I was constantly checking microscope samples and after a couple of weeks of dosing silicates I started noticing diatoms popping up. What I noticed was as their numbers grew the number of dinos started to go down. At one point it was almost all diatoms and a few dinos. Now its no dinos and the diatoms are starting to disappear as I have started cutting back on silicates.

Anyway I now have clean rock, clean glass, and bright white sand again. It is possible! Conquer this the natural way. It was frustrating along the way. I lost some inverts and coral, but I learned a lot. Hopefully my experience can help others get back control of their tanks.

If you have any questions just let me know.

Largely my experience as well. I run two UV in series, dosed MB7, and dosed Sponge Excel. I've stopped dosing MB7 and SE as of a week ago. I still have a light brown dusting on the sand but it doesn't appear to be getting any worse and I'm still too lazy to identify it under a microscope. Rocks have stayed clear. Coralline is growing again as are some corals.
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Besides sponge excel what other silica can we dose? I’m already trying to use ~50ml/day in my 180 and at that rate I’ll go through sponge excel quick.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Besides sponge excel what other silica can we dose? I’m already trying to use ~50ml/day in my 180 and at that rate I’ll go through sponge excel quick.
Florida aqua farms sells a huge container of concentrated Si. That's what i use now. There's no instructions so people should use the spongexcel for a bottle or two first until they get the feel for how their system handles Si.
I haven't tried it but siporax has also been found to raise Si but maybe not in a predictable way. It'll also lower NO3 so that would add another level of complexity.
 

dwest

2500 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 27, 2018
Messages
4,494
Reaction score
9,449
Location
Northern KY
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Florida aqua farms sells a huge container of concentrated Si. That's what i use now. There's no instructions so people should use the spongexcel for a bottle or two first until they get the feel for how their system handles Si.
I haven't tried it but siporax has also been found to raise Si but maybe not in a predictable way. It'll also lower NO3 so that would add another level of complexity.
I used siporax for about a year. It was one of the causes of my dinos IMO. It was great at reducing nitrates for sure in my system. It did not raise Si in my system. I checked levels with Triton. No elevated Si. I have read that it happened to others though.
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Florida aqua farms sells a huge container of concentrated Si. That's what i use now. There's no instructions so people should use the spongexcel for a bottle or two first until they get the feel for how their system handles Si.
I haven't tried it but siporax has also been found to raise Si but maybe not in a predictable way. It'll also lower NO3 so that would add another level of complexity.

Thanks is this it?
635882876031d6d9376966806638b683.jpg
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Largely my experience as well. I run two UV in series, dosed MB7, and dosed Sponge Excel. .. Rocks have stayed clear. Coralline is growing again as are some corals.

For a really long time the reports on bacteria in bottle products vs dinos were quite mixed.
Which was frustrating because we know that dino-bacterial associations are crucial. Bacteria can either feed a dino bloom or disrupt it.
Lately my sense is that bacteria bottle products have proved helpful in many cases. Doesn't hurt the overall direction of treatment, and when it hasn't been helpful - it didn't set things back.
Not a cure, but feels like it ought to be part of the treatment.
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
For a really long time the reports on bacteria in bottle products vs dinos were quite mixed.
Which was frustrating because we know that dino-bacterial associations are crucial. Bacteria can either feed a dino bloom or disrupt it.
Lately my sense is that bacteria bottle products have proved helpful in many cases. Doesn't hurt the overall direction of treatment, and when it hasn't been helpful - it didn't set things back.
Not a cure, but feels like it ought to be part of the treatment.

I’ve got dr time refresh and waste away I’m gonna give a go
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0

I've been dosing sponge excel to the tank and not seeing any diatoms. Still seeing the same dino and sand bed is getting worse. Been dosing Dr. Tim's waste away and keeping UV and skimmer off for a bit at a time.

Tested with Hanna silicate tester and got 11PPM. Do I need to convert that to Si? What should I target?

I did a 20g water change (180g tank) in the hopes that brings in some diatoms to start competing...not sure if that's a good idea but I'm throwing anything at the wall here to see what sticks.
 

David_Cool

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Messages
25
Reaction score
14
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've been dosing sponge excel to the tank and not seeing any diatoms. Still seeing the same dino and sand bed is getting worse. Been dosing Dr. Tim's waste away and keeping UV and skimmer off for a bit at a time.

Tested with Hanna silicate tester and got 11PPM. Do I need to convert that to Si? What should I target?

I did a 20g water change (180g tank) in the hopes that brings in some diatoms to start competing...not sure if that's a good idea but I'm throwing anything at the wall here to see what sticks.

Since the molecule for silicate is only 1 part Si, I'd assume that the 11ppm would be the same for the actual amount of Si in the water.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've been dosing sponge excel to the tank and not seeing any diatoms. Still seeing the same dino and sand bed is getting worse. Been dosing Dr. Tim's waste away and keeping UV and skimmer off for a bit at a time.

Tested with Hanna silicate tester and got 11PPM. Do I need to convert that to Si? What should I target?

I did a 20g water change (180g tank) in the hopes that brings in some diatoms to start competing...not sure if that's a good idea but I'm throwing anything at the wall here to see what sticks.
Confused. My hanna Low Range Si meter (hi705) goes 0.00 to 2.00 ppm SiO2.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I've been dosing sponge excel to the tank and not seeing any diatoms. Still seeing the same dino and sand bed is getting worse. Been dosing Dr. Tim's waste away and keeping UV and skimmer off for a bit at a time.

Tested with Hanna silicate tester and got 11PPM. Do I need to convert that to Si? What should I target?

I did a 20g water change (180g tank) in the hopes that brings in some diatoms to start competing...not sure if that's a good idea but I'm throwing anything at the wall here to see what sticks.

Okay so you did a water change which can be a good thing especially if there seems to be a bottleneck, where nothing is growing.
You say your silica is plenty high, I assume your N and P are plenty available as well. In which case you should start to grow a lot of things. And your description of the sand seems to match that. So let's bring the skimmer and UV back online, and start exporting things to force competition - keep growing and exporting until some Trace elements become scarce and there is competition for them. Also, let's get a microscope shot of sand junk and any other brown patches, just to see what all is there.

I’m using the high range checker

Okay plenty of Si. I used a ton of the stuff but never went above 2.0ppm sio2. Should still deplete reasonably fast.
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Okay so you did a water change which can be a good thing especially if there seems to be a bottleneck, where nothing is growing.
You say your silica is plenty high, I assume your N and P are plenty available as well. In which case you should start to grow a lot of things. And your description of the sand seems to match that. So let's bring the skimmer and UV back online, and start exporting things to force competition - keep growing and exporting until some Trace elements become scarce and there is competition for them. Also, let's get a microscope shot of sand junk and any other brown patches, just to see what all is there.



Okay plenty of Si. I used a ton of the stuff but never went above 2.0ppm sio2. Should still deplete reasonably fast.

Sounds good thanks for the help. I looked at sand and still same Dino’s and nothing else yet. I’ll take another look tomorrow to see if any changes. I’ll bring slimmer and UV back online as well.

NO3 is at 5ppm (dosed some neonitro to bring it up to 10-15ppm) and PO4 is at 0.1ppm.
 
OP
OP
taricha

taricha

5000 Club Member
View Badges
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
6,483
Reaction score
9,995
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Sounds good thanks for the help. I looked at sand and still same Dino’s and nothing else yet. I’ll take another look tomorrow to see if any changes. I’ll bring slimmer and UV back online as well.

NO3 is at 5ppm (dosed some neonitro to bring it up to 10-15ppm) and PO4 is at 0.1ppm.
All sounds great. I'd start getting aggressive with export next. Skim hard, grow macro, vacuum etc.
 

Chad_P

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 14, 2018
Messages
342
Reaction score
177
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I spot dosed a few areas with H2o2 and that seemed to help. To clarify, I don’t have amphidinium but Taricha ID’d mine as a small cell prorocentrum that may go into the water column. Mine looks like it stays in sand.

Also added some chaeto and a red macro algae from the LFS to my sump. Running a grow light on during night time. Will watch NO3 and PO4 to make sure they don’t bottom out.

Will start to get more aggressive with h2o2 spot treatments and vacuuming the sand bed.
 

Entz

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 21, 2019
Messages
412
Reaction score
769
Location
BC, Canada
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I recently got a microscope and confirmed that I have Amphidinium . So I would like to say thank you to everyone in this thread for treatment options and their experiences.

How does one know if they have small cell or large. Not that I am sure it matters all that much.

Dinos.png



Have sponge excel on the way and will start an aggressive export schedule. I will also does NO3 as it and PO4 crashed on me (my fault, went super agressive on this tank at export and ended up too clean I think). Mine are super heavy on the sand sand (Except where my Goby turns it over) and a bit on the glass. Thankfully it hasn't messed with any corals yet.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 33 52.4%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 35 55.6%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 13 20.6%
  • None.

    Votes: 14 22.2%
  • Other.

    Votes: 5 7.9%
Back
Top