An addendum to feeding and meds

[lion king]

Have you ever had to treat a lionfish for a bacterial infection? Mine has come down with a pretty bad one and I’m curious as to what your thoughts are on what action to take, if any.

Yes, in my early days of keeping lions, I followed the protocol of what most advised. Here is some of experiences, then I'll follow with my current philosophy.

Bactetrial infections seem to be somewhat common with lions, I'd say almost 50/50 at times. I've used kanaplex, furan-2, and paraguard. All to varying degrees of success and in the end, the fish always died a few months to a year or barely over a year after treatment. I'm convinced that antibiotic treatment was a factor in the shortened lifespan.

This is what I practice today and although it is a risk, I believe it's the best chance for a long life. I have never had a lion develop a bacterial infection while in my care, other than immediately after arrival. So with this said I've never seen what I would call a severe infection, I've only seen mild infections that tend to be common among new arrivals.

So 1st off, pristine water conditions, I mean no more than 30ppm nitrates. 2nd a highly nutritious diet, I'm talking live foods. So with pristine water conditions and a rich healthy diet, I've seen a number of lions just clear on it's own, even more quickly than when I used antibiotics. If these conditions are met, it will likely clear on it's on.

Now if we are talking "bad", then that's obviously a different story. If you have let your water quality slip and decided to go with an all dead diet, then that could possibly be the root of cause. I would start with getting the water quality in check, I would feed live again. And if you find it necessary, the use of any of the 3 antibiotics I mentioned earlier would be as good as any others, your choice. Mind you, none of the lions I used these antibiotics on lived much more than a year after treatment. While some of my current crew is over 8 years with me.

 

[Han]

Yes, in my early days of keeping lions, I followed the protocol of what most advised. Here is some of experiences, then I'll follow with my current philosophy.

Bactetrial infections seem to be somewhat common with lions, I'd say almost 50/50 at times. I've used kanaplex, furan-2, and paraguard. All to varying degrees of success and in the end, the fish always died a few months to a year or barely over a year after treatment. I'm convinced that antibiotic treatment was a factor in the shortened lifespan.

This is what I practice today and although it is a risk, I believe it's the best chance for a long life. I have never had a lion develop a bacterial infection while in my care, other than immediately after arrival. So with this said I've never seen what I would call a severe infection, I've only seen mild infections that tend to be common among new arrivals.

So 1st off, pristine water conditions, I mean no more than 30ppm nitrates. 2nd a highly nutritious diet, I'm talking live foods. So with pristine water conditions and a rich healthy diet, I've seen a number of lions just clear on it's own, even more quickly than when I used antibiotics. If these conditions are met, it will likely clear on it's on.

Now if we are talking "bad", then that's obviously a different story. If you have let your water quality slip and decided to go with an all dead diet, then that could possibly be the root of cause. I would start with getting the water quality in check, I would feed live again. And if you find it necessary, the use of any of the 3 antibiotics I mentioned earlier would be as good as any others, your choice. Mind you, none of the lions I used these antibiotics on lived much more than a year after treatment. While some of my current crew is over 8 years with me.

The tank he’s in Ironically has great water quality, I can’t say the same about my other tanks. His tank is consistently less than 5 ppm nitrates. He was injured by a reef lobster (who has since been removed) and its just gotten worse from there. Washed out color, white areas on skin, cloudy eyes, fin rot. Still eating well and acting mostly normal if a little lethargic. I did give him a very low dose of kanaplex over 3 days in his food and dosed a very low amount of melafix to the dt. I’m hesitant to do any more, do you think he has a chance of recovering? He gets a varied diet, silversides, krill, clam, octopus, oyster, squid, etc. haven’t been feeding live recently due to the shutdown but he still gets a wide variety of frozen + selcon/vitachem.

 

[lion king]

The tank he’s in Ironically has great water quality, I can’t say the same about my other tanks. His tank is consistently less than 5 ppm nitrates. He was injured by a reef lobster (who has since been removed) and its just gotten worse from there. Washed out color, white areas on skin, cloudy eyes, fin rot. Still eating well and acting mostly normal if a little lethargic. I did give him a very low dose of kanaplex over 3 days in his food and dosed a very low amount of melafix to the dt. I’m hesitant to do any more, do you think he has a chance of recovering? He gets a varied diet, silversides, krill, clam, octopus, oyster, squid, etc. haven’t been feeding live recently due to the shutdown but he still gets a wide variety of frozen + selcon/vitachem.

Yes a lobster injury can be worrisome, great water quality and still eating is a good sign. His diet sounds great as well and I'm sure he has been fed well, so starting from a healthy state is great as well.

How long has it been and you say it's getting worse, it would all depend on this. The problem is he needs to be strong if you decide to start treatment, and if you wait too long, and it gets worse, it may be too late. All of these decisions are tough, because I will only treat when I feel there is no other option. I wouldn't play around with low dose, I would either treat or not treat. Antibiotics will absorb in a dt and throw off the therapeutic level. Kanaplex in food would likely be your best option if you decide to treat. If he stops eating, then you are in trouble. If he did stop eating, your only option to treat would be to remove him to a qt/hospital tank, and dose the water column.

 

[Han]

I did the kanaplex in his food for 3 days per seachem’s instructions. He’s been like this for about a month, but slowly getting worse. I’m hesitant to qt him and treat as long as he’s still eating, I’m not sure there’s anything more I can do at this point without potentially making things worse.

 

[lion king]

What are the signs that you say is slowly getting worse. At the injury site is it red, inflamed, or otherwise looking as if an infection is setting in. If you mean the color and cloudy eyes, that is also an indication for him to shed his cuticle layer, which would also be his response to a bacterial infection.

If there is no infection present in the wound area; your water is pristine, and he is eating; I would likely let him ride it out. In all honesty, another round of kanaplex would likely make little difference. When I did'nt see some improvement over the 1st round, I didn't see any on the 2nd round either. I would give him some live mollies if you could.

 

[Han]

Hes pale, cloudy eyes, has fin rot, white patches on his skin. No redness or inflammation that I can see.

 

[lion king]

Hes pale, cloudy eyes, has fin rot, white patches on his skin. No redness or inflammation that I can see.

With your water quality and him eating well, its a good bet he'll get over it,

 

[Han]

Fingers crossed, thanks for the advice

 

[lion king]

I recommended live mollies because the nutritional value of the gut flora in a live fish may play a vital role in fighting such attacks.

 

[jasonrusso]

How long would you wait for this?

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