An Update from CEO Brian Degen

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robbyg

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Have to be able to manufacture reliable discs - and they have a shelf life of what, 30 days? There is no over simplification. I'm separating venture capitol or money issues and technology. I'm not questing the tech other than clearly there are issues be it manufacturing discs, reliably, the unit, aquarium placement, and anything else that contributed to the delay.
And where on Earth did you get a 30 day shelf life from? I have never seen SAI put out any numbers on the shelf life of the Disks. They have 30 days of operational time just like your reagents run out in 30 days doing 1/96th of the tests that an MS disk did.

I'm also calling it out that to say there is no maintenance required other than replacing the disc is baloney. It is in a marine environment. Life will grow on it be it sponge, algae, worms, or any other thing that we do routine maintenance on our tanks (which you answered by the way). Base unit will be in the tank longer than the disc.
Do you have any data on that? They said the plastic they used rejected something like 99% of all growth. I suspect the cleaning interval was way longer than an MP-40


It isn't a prediction. Neptune stated the maintenance window. This isn't my call.
It's a prediction until the first group of people start having an issue and we the public have hard numbers.


Not sure what facts you are talking about really. One is working, the other isn't. The other went a different route. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. In fact, I believe you are going with the other option being GHL. So even you are not a firm believer in the tech or enough to wait it out. And I'm sure the product will work well for you. I do.
I would most certainly rather go with GHL. They make products that are well built and durable. I have no idea when the next company will make another Mindstream but I will just flip the Ion Director if something better like another MS comes along.

On the oil part - bla - typo. Change but you knew that and busted my chops. I can take it. 7500 miles or months whatever comes first unless you do public transportation, ride a bike, walk, or anything else that I may have missed... Point was that you did routine maintenance and didn't really think twice about it. But....testing takes time and time is money, right?
 

robbyg

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Btw, who needs to let this go? Silver, Harry, Saf, why are you guys still posting in this thread? None of you ordered one or are out any $. It seems that you are just enjoying dancing on SAI’s grave, which you can do I guess, but it only adds credence to my earlier point about how some users here seem to be more into feeding dumpster fires than moving the hobby forward. Have a great day, all.
Anybody who did not figure out that was there true intent from the start will certainly know now.
 

saf1

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And where on Earth did you get a 30 day shelf life from? I have never seen SAI put out any numbers on the shelf life of the Disks. They have 30 days of operational time just like your reagents run out in 30 days doing 1/96th of the tests that an MS disk did.
Um...you just answered. You get a replacement disc every 30 days. This has nothing to do with reagents vs. disc. It means is the disc still good if you don't replace it on day 45? Are those results still good? Make sense? If you are telling me the disc is still good after day 35, 40, 45 why do you need a replacement every 30? Now, if you are telling me that you don't need to replace the disc every 30 days then I misunderstand the disc replacement.

Do you have any data on that? They said the plastic they used rejected something like 99% of all growth. I suspect the cleaning interval was way longer than an MP-40
Never of us know. I'm treating it like anything else in the marine environment. It could be like you said and you only need to do it once every 6, 9, 12, 18 months. Again, maintenance or service - everything needs it.

It's a prediction until the first group of people start having an issue and we the public have hard numbers.
I'm not sure why you are calling this a prediction. It is already called out in their trident FAQ. It isn't anything I'm making up. As far as hard numbers or if you mean data, sure. More users more data and maybe that will change. I have no idea but that will be similar to any other device be it the MS product or GHL probes.

I would most certainly rather go with GHL. They make products that are well built and durable. I have no idea when the next company will make another Mindstream but I will just flip the Ion Director if something better like another MS comes along.
Was never trying to have you switch to another product.
 

Silver14SS

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Btw, who needs to let this go? Silver, Harry, Saf, why are you guys still posting in this thread? None of you ordered one or are out any $. It seems that you are just enjoying dancing on SAI’s grave, which you can do I guess, but it only adds credence to my earlier point about how some users here seem to be more into feeding dumpster fires than moving the hobby forward. Have a great day, all.
Just trying to have a factual conversation. Sorry if it comes across as dancing on the grave, but when someone who has no hands on experience with one posts that it works great when there's plenty of reports from users that it didn't, I guess that's a personality defect of mine to attempt to correct the inaccurate statement. Being the voice of support for a company that potentially screwed reefers out of money doesn't seem to be moving the hobby forward either.

If the only ones who should participate in these threads are those that have lost money or have a device in their possession, that's cool, but let's limit the participation on both the pro and con sides then :). Those that have gotten a refund are in the same position as those that never ordered with nothing lost.
 
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saf1

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Anybody who did not figure out that was there true intent from the start will certainly know now.
Care to review the thread and prove this statement? I've replied to your posts when bashing other technology - which you are continuing to do btw.
 

robbyg

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Care to review the thread and prove this statement? I've replied to your posts when bashing other technology - which you are continuing to do btw.
Seriously! I only have to go back two days ago to find this.

Well, there are a lot of varying opinions on this so called tech. Just as there are a lot of varying opinions on why it failed and would never work.
 

saf1

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Seriously! I only have to go back two days ago to find this.
Do you want to cut and past or post the whole thread and what I was replying to? I was replying to another member who said if it is over, somebody needs to take over where they left off and make this tech work. To which I replied there are a lot of varying opinions on this so called tech. Is that not true? You believe it is perfect, I do not. I'm sure others have opinions too. Are we not allowed to voice them?

You may believe that no one picked it up because of negative social media. I may not. I may believe that someone looked at it and decided the tech was either too challenging, required more money, was too big too fast, and stopped funding after the timeline. You may not. What I do know though is this. Unless you work for them, or are one of the larger backers, neither you or I know what really happened or why. It is purely speculation.
 

SandJ

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And where on Earth did you get a 30 day shelf life from? I have never seen SAI put out any numbers on the shelf life of the Disks. They have 30 days of operational time just like your reagents run out in 30 days doing 1/96th of the tests that an MS disk did.
At MACNA they told me the disc had a 6 month shelf life when I asked.
 

saf1

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Thats what I think of one someone asks me about "shelf life". It means how long will it last in its sealed form.
You are correct. What I meant to ask is how long the disc lasts once it is in the head unit, in use, or water. I believe the correct answer is whatever the subscription is and I think that is 30 days.

So wrong term on my part. Was not implying it was short shelf.
 

GoVols

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@MindStream

Alex, Ryan and to all your co-workers:

No matter how things turn out, you and your families are in our thoughts and prayers during this unsettling time.

Regards, GoVols
 

TARHEEL78

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You are correct. What I meant to ask is how long the disc lasts once it is in the head unit, in use, or water. I believe the correct answer is whatever the subscription is and I think that is 30 days.

So wrong term on my part. Was not implying it was short shelf.
I believe SAI said the discs were good for 45 days, I could be misremembering though.
 

o2manyfish

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I'm going to post using past tense terms. I was a beta tester for the Mindstream and have over 18 months experience with the Mindstream Beta and Final Release units.

The Discs were intended to be in use for 30 days in the tank. The shelf life was very long as long as the disc was kept wet and in pitch dark.

The Discs could have been used for more than 30 days. But the technology was consuming some portion of the disc and at some point the accuracy of some of the parameters would be affected.

The optical sensors that were on the base unit which read the discs were cleaned by brushes that were on the disc and swept the lenses when the disc rotated.

The Mindstream Cloud service is currently still active and providing data from my aquarium.

Dave B
 

chicago

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Hopefully, everyone gets the refund. I am still waiting on my credit card statement to confirm. Time will tell. I am not sure if a Bankruptcy will allow the Credit Card companies to say sorry. Hopefully, the employees land back on their feet before the holiday and have a good one. Hopefully, this product eventually finds its way to a manufacturer and all the issues are worked out.. Right now I have a trident and I must say a lot easier than manual testing and wondering.
 
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MnFish1

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Do you want to cut and past or post the whole thread and what I was replying to? I was replying to another member who said if it is over, somebody needs to take over where they left off and make this tech work. To which I replied there are a lot of varying opinions on this so called tech. Is that not true? You believe it is perfect, I do not. I'm sure others have opinions too. Are we not allowed to voice them?

You may believe that no one picked it up because of negative social media. I may not. I may believe that someone looked at it and decided the tech was either too challenging, required more money, was too big too fast, and stopped funding after the timeline. You may not. What I do know though is this. Unless you work for them, or are one of the larger backers, neither you or I know what really happened or why. It is purely speculation.
My recollection is that there were several posts 'up front' - in July - on various forums (not just here) - suggesting that this company was unreliable as they had promised the product a long time before it was 'available'. I then remember People not believing that units were shipping because 'no one was posting about how good or bad they were'. Then at least several people posted that they had received their units. My recollection is that all throughout July and August people posted how 'concerned' they were that 'something was up/ when people were not receiving their units within 6-8 weeks - Posts and a poll were put up. Long before the radio silence.

I for one never had a problem communicating with the company - either by phone or email. I for one - waited - due to buy until Mid - late august due to some of the comments here - but decided to go ahead - as I didnt believe that 'some of the negative theories' were more convincing that the people that had received units, etc.

All of that said - what I recall is the the biggest reason people were not wanting to order (by far) was the upfront cost and the subscription method. To me this was also the biggest debate - and there is even a whole thread discussing this bak and forth at length.
 

kzp

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If it's over, somebody needs to take over where they left off and make this tech work. We all want the ability to monitor 10 parameters every 15 minutes, I do not care what its called or who makes it. Plus it would be a money maker.
One cannot assume this tech. would EVER work. It may simply be utterly impossible to consistently work over time given the harsh conditions that a device such as this is subjected to being in salt water. Now, some beta testers have come out of the wood work, as per another thread, and it is clear that this device NEVER worked consistently for anyone as far as I can tell. As such, one can easily make an argument that it is, in fact, a "scam" and/or "fraud". Why? Because the company was grasping for straws, so to speak, by actively soliciting money for a device that it knew was defective/"not ready for prime time", at the very least. It took peoples' money in advance knowing full well that there was at least a decent chance that no one would ever get a truly consistently long-term working unit. They likely hoped that they could 'work out the kinks' (hence, the so-called "good intentions") before they had to actually deliver units en-masse, but that was just a leap of faith. In the end, they couldn't deliver the goods and folded. This is called a ponzi scheme. Remember, a lot of ponzi schemes start out with good intentions. They really believe that their investments will deliver and keep taking peoples' money even when the investment returns never really pan out. Then they pay off early redeemers with new peoples' moneys, all the while assuming they will eventually catch up---but yet they never do. Then, the company just implodes when no further money is coming in--ala MS. Classic.

The CEO/founders need to be investigated, and I mean now. I suspect that crimes may have committed. They were CLEARLY not transparent in the problems they were having, which explains their lies such as "you are on the top of the waitlist"; "we are building a robot" for discs; we are "catching up" with old orders, so we are now stopping new orders, and, most egregiously of all, claiming in black and white in the CEO statement at the start of this thread that, "OUR FINANCIAL POSITION IS STRONG". This was flat-out B.S. of the highest order. At that time, it had to be obvious to them that their company was on shaky financial footing, and had they been honest about this to us buyers, we could have had to opportunity to request earlier refunds. Now, many of us (including me so far) are left 'holding the bag'.

The worst part of all is that many of us, including myself, may have accepted a sub-par unit for a reduced price just to give us some possibly interesting trend data in our tanks--as long as we were told in advance that they were working very hard to make it more consistent and reliable--even if it takes a year-plus. Then, they could have charged ths cut-rate price, but possibly sold more units by being transparent, and wouldn't have had less pressure to, what I would argue, fraudulently sell units that couldn't deliver what they were supposed to do.
 
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