Analyzing Hanna Ammonia checker Hi784, chemistry and performance

[BeanAnimal]

I’ll certainly leave the questions to Brandon, but just recognize that not everyone agrees with his assertions.

That is a very kind understatement -- but other than back handed comments about "umpires" and the rest of his peers, I don't think the lot of us have any clue what he is trying to actually say anymore. The writings appear to be more rantings than answers -- and even at that, about disease prep and not the nitrogen cycle.

 

[Garf]

OCS? Is that shorthand for over complicating **** or something else? I’m not familiar with the acronym.

Looks to be an acronym for Old Cycle Science, a term that only Brandon has ever used in the history of aquarium keeping. Some folk love just making stuff up, lol.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Um, what does that mean in English?

Swedish twerking

 

[BeanAnimal]

Looks to be an acronym for Old Cycle Science, a term that only Brandon has ever used in the history of aquarium keeping. Some folk love just making stuff up, lol.

LOL how did I miss that one. Made up nonsense acronyms for made up nonsense terms... Next thing ya know, there will be a book.

 

[Lasse]

Um, what does that mean in English?

Its Swenglish If you dilute the sample with RO water as I suggest in an earlier post, its nor sure you get an exact value but you get an approximate value. When you say that something is between the thumb and indexfinger in Swedish it means that it is an approximate value as the distance between these fingers vary.

What I want to emphasize is that an approximate value is needed to be able to judge what is best to do. Regardless of what Brandon says, I have seen examples where high ammonium values stop the entire process - even the first step. In these cases, a water change may be needed to bring the initial value down so that the oxidation of NH3/NH4 can start

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Its Swenglish If you dilute the sample with RO water as I suggest in an earlier post, its nor sure you get an exact value but you get an approximate value. When you say that something is between the thumb and indexfinger in Swedish it means that it is an approximate value as the distance between these fingers vary.

What I want to emphasize is that an approximate value is needed to be able to judge what is best to do. Regardless of what Brandon says, I have seen examples where high ammonium values stop the entire process - even the first step. In these cases, a water change may be needed to bring the initial value down so that the oxidation of NH3/NH4 can start

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks for the Swenglish lesson.

 

[mmorrison55]

Its Swenglish If you dilute the sample with RO water as I suggest in an earlier post, its nor sure you get an exact value but you get an approximate value. When you say that something is between the thumb and indexfinger in Swedish it means that it is an approximate value as the distance between these fingers vary.

What I want to emphasize is that an approximate value is needed to be able to judge what is best to do. Regardless of what Brandon says, I have seen examples where high ammonium values stop the entire process - even the first step. In these cases, a water change may be needed to bring the initial value down so that the oxidation of NH3/NH4 can start

Sincerely Lasse

I diluted the sample, 5 ml Rodi water and 5 ml tank water. My Hannah registered .48. When I tested @ 7:30 pm ET

I DID add 8 oz of Fritz turbo 900 this morning around 11:30.

Guess I need to rerun a full fledged ammonia test since it seems it’s come down since the original test was reading a flashing 2.5.

I will run another test later this evening and post results.

Thank you all for your input and trying to get me back on track.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree it’s looking good. Thumb and fingers and everything. Lol

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yep as long is it is moving in the right direction you are too…

 

[mmorrison55]

Ran another test this morning using the Hannah h1784. This time I did a full sample of tank water, no 50/50 mix of Rodi and tank water, and I’m still high (2.19), but at least the Hannah checker is able to read the sample now.

I guess I’m just waiting and testing every few days until the ammonia is close to 0.0?


Also, does temp have any affect on ammonia? It’s been unusually cold here in Florida, and my ambient temp in the house is 70, so my tank is 70 as well. I have a heater on order, and it should be here tomorrow. I just wanted to throw that out there in case there was any impact by the colder water temp.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Once down below 0.4 ppm you are good to go.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Low temps may slow cycling, but 70 is not a big deal.

 

[mmorrison55]

Once down below 0.4 ppm you are good to go.

.98 as of this AM. Heading in the right direction. Will test again in a few days and hop it’s <0.4 and will check nitrites and nitrates as well for good measure, and then hopefully this weekend I will be ready to start introducing the cleanup crew.

 

[mmorrison55]

As of this mornings tests…

.10 ammonia
> 200 nitrite. (Flashing on Hannah ULR Nitrite)
> 75 nitrate. (Flashing on Hannah HR nitrate). I reduced my sample volume by 50% then added rodi to 10ml and tested again. Then got a 47.6 reading.

So based on this, I’m assuming I’m not quite ready for livestock, but wanted to get some opinions. I’d prefer not to stress out any fish if I didn’t have to.

I’m in no rush, so if it’s best to just keep waiting until nitrites come down and then I can do a water change to deal with the nitrates, I’m good with that approach, or should I go ahead and do the water change this weekend then test for nitrites and nitrates after?

Thanks for the knowledge transfer!

Mike

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I expect it is good to go. Only ammonia is a concern in a marine tank. The nitrate is likely reading high due to nitrite.

 

[mmorrison55]

Ok. Good to know. Thanks Randy. I will start looking for a fish or two to put in the tank. Most likely a pair of some variety of clownfish and a few snails.

I know I will need a large CUC at some point, but I have zero algae growing on my sand bed, so fear I don’t have enough for the cuc to feed on.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok. Good to know. Thanks Randy. I will start looking for a fish or two to put in the tank. Most likely a pair of some variety of clownfish and a few snails.

I know I will need a large CUC at some point, but I have zero algae growing on my sand bed, so fear I don’t have enough for the cuc to feed on.

Sounds reasonable to me.

 

[Lasse]

Its true - its not acute toxic in for gill-breathing animals with iron based oxygen carriers in saltwater. But I personally do not know enough if high NO2 can create sublethal damage on fish, rising stress level and so on. In these cases - lack of information - I prefer to play after the precautionary principle when dealing with animals.

There is also an "process" aspect according WC during the start up period. Newly started aquarium often have a lot of inorganic particles floating around. These particles is a very good substrate for nitrification bacteria. WC will take some away.

I know I will need a large CUC at some point, but I have zero algae growing on my sand bed, so fear I don’t have enough for the cuc to feed on.

IMO - if you wait with CUC until your eyes detect algae - you have lost the battle. I always start with some CUC the same day I light up the aquarium - in that way I need fewer CUC in the beginning and they can control the algae biomass. If I notice that I have a to small CUC - I get more asap. Most microalgae have population dubble time lesser than 24 hours. You have to deal with the legendary cost of the first chessboard. I see it this way

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Other see it this way

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Sincerely Lasse

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[mmorrison55]

There is also an "process" aspect according WC during the start up period. Newly started aquarium often have a lot of inorganic particles floating around. These particles is a very good substrate for nitrification bacteria. WC will take some away.

So are you saying I should NOT do a water change to help reduce the nitrates at this stage of my cycle?

IMO - if you wait with CUC until your eyes detect algae - you have lost the battle. I always start with some CUC the same day I light up the aquarium - in that way I need fewer CUC in the beginning and they can control the algae biomass.

Noted and thanks.i will add a few more cuc than anticipated. I do NOT plan on turning on my lights for another week or two though, but I can still add a few more critters initially when I add the fish. I was just concerned with them having enough to eat since my sand bed appears so clean.

And I don’t think I want to add a full compliment of cuc for 180 gallon system like those sold as such.

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I think that might be too many to add right now, wouldn’t you agree? But if I should go ahead and add that many, I certainly can. Again, I was just afraid of adding too much too soon than my system was ready for.

 

[Lasse]

So are you saying I should NOT do a water change to help reduce the nitrates at this stage of my cycle?

I personally had wait until my NO2 is below 0.2 mg/L. In your case it means around 60 ppb NO2-N. But that´s me and I have never started an aquarium that result in high NO3 levels - I chose other methods instead. You are (IMO) in a situation where the question is not what is good to do - instead the question is - which path is the least bad. Its only you that can decide that. Maybe you should continue dosing bacteria - wait some days and if nothing change - do a WC

I would not add any CUC before you turn your light on. I´m a little concern about nassarius snails in the start - they do not eat algae - they are scavengers and eat also organic detritus in the sand, A newly started aquarium is poor in these foods and do not grow like algae.

Sincerely Lasse