Another Red Sea Mature thread. Cycling stage?

Roccopaul

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Okay, so let me start with, I know I did something wrong with the kit because I’m currently at the end of the program and I’m not seeing much action. Maybe I’m also not understanding the cycle process correctly I did have my days messed up when I posted here previously but recalculating I’m at day 17. Also I know it takes longer to cycle dry rock but I want to make sure I’m on the right path, but here we go.

Day one of water in my tank was Nov. 24. I placed 90lbs dry rock with 10lbs live rock from gulf live rock. The total volume of the tank and sump is 219L. Because of work I left the tank to it’s self. Skimmer was running, water flowing, etc.

I returned home on the Dec.4 and started the Red Sea mature program. I followed the guide and now I’m at the end. Nothing left to dose with.

Salinity is at 34ppt
Temp at 78
PH 8.0
Ammonia at 0.2
Nitrite at 0.1
Nitrate at 50
Dkh at 9

The guide suggested placing a cleanup crew but I was unsure even what they could do when I saw little to no algae in the tank. So I opted to not put any fish or CUC in. Around Dec 16 I did see a brown algae (diatoms?) starting to grow on the rock and sand. As of today it is starting to die down. I am seeing spots of darker green on the rock that started to grow around the 18th but it seems to be going away also.

Today I finally found chaeto and it’s in the sump.

So with all that I’m staring at my tank and I’m a little confused what to do.

  1. Should I just keep doing 2-5% water changes weekly and let it be?
  2. Should I start ghost feeding?
  3. Insert something else?
Also to add, I purchased the algae barn ultimate refugium kit and it should be here tomorrow. It does have fritz turbo start included. Should I use that at all or just get the corepods in the sump?

If I need to add anything please let me know. Thank you everyone for your input.
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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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this cycle is done.

using old cycling rules you'll be waiting longer, buying new bacteria etc and skipping fish disease protocol during all the worry.

but using new cycling rules:

-your test registers as nh3 .02 which is safe, nh4 = .2 and we disregard that in reefing

-any system with new growths that weren't there originally, what you show on those white rock pics, is cycled, the entire system

-it takes 20 days for a chunk of live rock to transmit its bacteria to the inert portions of the system, in addition to bottle bac you've already dosed and in addition to 20 days worth of room bacteria free of charge that would still cycle given this long with feed only in the system, we have threads showing those approaches. you're triply done.

-read the fish disease forum and select a protocol before adding fish. your tank can carry a full fish load now, but if you do that they'll die of disease fast, its a new trend emerging in the hobby

-nitrite no longer factors in reef tank cycling in the new rule set per Randy's article from 2006.

waiting any longer does not get you more bacteria on surfaces than you have right now, the biofilter is set and ready, we could tell that off the pics alone showing the green cyano on top of the white rock. thats a biomarker for a 100% complete cycle

-if you were using seneye vs that non digital test kit your nh3 would be even lower, .002
 
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brandon429

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to save all future headaches:

ammonia and nitrite never need to be tested for again as long as this reef runs, they cannot drift out of spec. its ready for use now

what I recommend as a summary of disease forum:

stock your tank with corals and clean up crew first

be feeding them, guiding out those growths with spot siphons so you dont get an invasion lasting 5 months, work hard vs hands off up front, do not accept the uglies. When the tank is full and not boring to enjoy during a fallow phase, begin 76 day fallow (see links in the fish disease forum for description and procedure) and lastly when you add fish, make sure someone or you quarantined and assessed them first.

the chart shows clear ammonia movement down in the specified timeframe we'd expect, perfect logs there. the tank is ready. nitrite and nitrate have no bearing in the matter whatsoever. only ammonia control and disease preps matter in 2022 cycling of reef tanks.

you may be wondering why ammonia doesnt read zero and we're not waiting till it reads zero

those are part of the old cycling rules, no reef tank on this board runs zero ammonia, so we don't expect your new one to. The old cycling rules were written by bottle bac sellers and the results were doubt and resale of tens of thousands of bottles of bac, unneeded.

the new rules were written by forum nerds with nothing to sell and observant of basic trends in the hobby as reported by expensive digital ammonia kits.
 
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Roccopaul

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to save all future headaches:

ammonia and nitrite never need to be tested for again as long as this reef runs, they cannot drift out of spec. its ready for use now

what I recommend as a summary of disease forum:

stock your tank with corals and clean up crew first

be feeding them, guiding out those growths with spot siphons so you dont get an invasion lasting 5 months, work hard vs hands off up front, do not accept the uglies. When the tank is full and not boring to enjoy during a fallow phase, begin 76 day fallow (see links in the fish disease forum for description and procedure) and lastly when you add fish, make sure someone or you quarantined and assessed them first.

the chart shows clear ammonia movement down in the specified timeframe we'd expect, perfect logs there. the tank is ready. nitrite and nitrate have no bearing in the matter whatsoever. only ammonia control and disease preps matter in 2022 cycling of reef tanks.

you may be wondering why ammonia doesnt read zero and we're not waiting till it reads zero

those are part of the old cycling rules, no reef tank on this board runs zero ammonia, so we don't expect your new one to. The old cycling rules were written by bottle bac sellers and the results were doubt and resale of tens of thousands of bottles of bac, unneeded.

the new rules were written by forum nerds with nothing to sell and observant of basic trends in the hobby as reported by expensive digital ammonia kits.
Thank you for the information.
I started to read up on fallow and QT but those topics are making my head spin and my wife decide on whether to keep me. When I do add fish, I was hoping to use a 5 gallon buck for QT cause my budget doesn’t allow for a QT tank.

I live in north western Pennsylvania and LFS are either under stocked or so nasty I wouldn’t enter them. Shipping times online are super expensive during holidays so I might have to wait till Jan. 1st before I can order a CUC or corals.

Any suggestions on keeping the tank where it is at while I wait for Jan 1st?
 

brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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you can easily just wait if you'd like, no cycle can be starved after its set even if you waited five years not a joke. the room itself (any non hospital setting, especially where any carpet exists in a house) is providing free bacteria and free feed every minute of the day, it cannot be undone. dont continue to feed it or the uglies will drive harder, wait to feed when some food-consuming animals are in place. you can easily be stocking corals and clean up crew before fish if you'd like and they'll appreciate some feed when they're in place. this tank is truly at the point you never have to look back on the cycle ever again, its can't starve or become uncycled unless you dry out the system completely.
 
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Roccopaul

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you can easily just wait if you'd like, no cycle can be starved after its set even if you waited five years not a joke. the room itself (any non hospital setting, especially where any carpet exists in a house) is providing free bacteria and free feed every minute of the day, it cannot be undone. dont continue to feed it or the uglies will drive harder, wait to feed when some food-consuming animals are in place. you can easily be stocking corals and clean up crew before fish if you'd like and they'll appreciate some feed when they're in place. this tank is truly at the point you never have to look back on the cycle ever again, its can't starve or become uncycled unless you dry out the system completely.
So when the copepods show up tomorrow, should I completely skip the fritz turbo start in the sump and just add the copepods? Let those continue while dosing phytoplankton and in Jan put in a CUC?
 

brandon429

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predictions coming:

the uglies result from highly reflective white surfaces and bright light + imports of algae and cyano we expect from the living portion of the rocks added during the wait. additionally, any animals you add are wet inherently and stuck to them are all manner of offenders, uglies are coming.

do not permit them, or sit back and hope they subside, that works 10% of the time though the persons who did have it resolve will paint you a certain guarantee yours will follow suit. it wont you'll hate a wrecked tank


so with that aquascape above be creative: when bad growths, expected algae or cyano start to blanket a rock, you simply lift out the rock and scrape the stuff off in your sink and rinse the rock in saltwater then set it back clean.

dont dose all manner of X to the tank, this creates a chemical soup.

when cyano or dinos starts on the sandbed, you insert a siphon hose and vacuum up 2 gallon of saltwater and remove the growths with a tiny water change effort, dont go adjusting this or that about the water to respond.
 

brandon429

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yes on copepods and good job adding them. they'll help

no more fritz needed, cycle is done for sure. any extra bacteria added is oxygen competing against the system. it can be tolerated but its specifically not indicated.
 

brandon429

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if there was one single hardware device that you could buy that will ease coming headaches and uglies challenge its a UV sterilizer. you can either run them always, or run them during challenges, doesn't matter. pentair is top of the line UV for reef and can be ran 24x7 and cost probably eight hundred dollars because its top of the line

jebao pond sterilizers rated for 1600 gallon ponds are still very small and can be bought for $100 off amazon or there abouts. they'll rust out in two years if ran constantly, that's why they're cheap. they work as well initially as the $800 ones. turn your lights down about 50% current power until you get organisms that need light, the tendency is do full on power and this brings the uglies faster than anything.
 
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Roccopaul

Roccopaul

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if there was one single hardware device that you could buy that will ease coming headaches and uglies challenge its a UV sterilizer. you can either run them always, or run them during challenges, doesn't matter. pentair is top of the line UV for reef and can be ran 24x7 and cost probably eight hundred dollars because its top of the line

jebao pond sterilizers rated for 1600 gallon ponds are still very small and can be bought for $100 off amazon or there abouts. they'll rust out in two years if ran constantly, that's why they're cheap. they work as well initially as the $800 ones. turn your lights down about 50% current power until you get organisms that need light, the tendency is do full on power and this brings the uglies faster than anything.
I actually bought a UV sterilizer. I haven't mounted it yet. I figured waiting until the tank was well cycled before putting it on was the best choice. I still haven't decided on where to place it though. Its a bit bulky for my liking and crowd my sump. I don't want anything in the DT unless seriously necessary.

Right now I'm using a danner model 5 pump thats around 500gph. Cost around 88$. The sump I'm using is a Bashsea sump Biofuge 30x10x14. The DT tank was an old 55 gallon I had from freshwater years ago and the stand is only 12 wide. It was the only one I could find to fit. The major downside is the return pump chamber is a 5x5. Most of the return pumps I wanted to use wouldn't fit. I had to modify the filter chamber by putting a finer filter media in because the wide mesh was allowing the chaeto to get sucked into it. Other than that, the sump has been pretty nice.
 

brandon429

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You were well prepared for this setup and it shows, this will make a fine reef for sure, watch by summertime I bet the updates show a mature looking setup
 

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