Another 'why are my euphyllias bailing out' question.

[Joe31415]

I while back I started a thread on a good sized acan I had that start losing polyps which is long gone at this point.
Now I've got some euphylias dying. I had one bail out two heads a month or two ago. Then a few weeks back, another one with 4 heads suddenly retracted all it's tentacles. Other than it looking like it does at night, it seemed okay. But now it's bailing out. Two heads took off last week (and subsequently caught by another coral), and the remaining two I'm expecting to bail out today. I have a torch in there is well that sometimes looks a bit floppier than I think it should, but I'm trying to tell myself that's just how it looks when the powerhead ramps down.
I'm struggling to figure out what's going on. I know there's flatworms that go after these corals, but I'm not seeing anything. The one currently bailing out does have some type of pink sponge on it's base, but I don't think it's related.
As for parameters, I've got:
Alk 9.35
Nitrate 3.46
Phosphate .043
Calcium 415
Magnesium 1564

I don't spot feed anything all that often, in general I overfeed and I assume they're catching what they want. Between the (fish) pellets, LPS pellets, live baby brine shrimp, and 4 or 5 different frozen foods that I use, along with pods and phyto, CoralAmino and AB+, there's a good variety. So I wouldn't think it would be for lack of food.

Any thoughts?

 

[Joe31415]

One more thing. I mentioned a pink sponge on the base of one of the corals. Here's a picture of it from a little while back.

Recently, I noticed something, possibly another sponge(?) growing on it. This is the only place I see it, so I'm thinking it's unrelated.

ETA, these are really small, so I never noticed until now that all (most) of those tubes are in pairs.

 

[Lavey29]

LPS like a slightly dirty tank with nitrates at 10 and phosphate. 05 to .1. If they are struggling for nutrients it may take months before you start to see gradual decline of all euphylia.

 

[Karen00]

Do you ever see anything come out of those tubes? Are these tubes on the euphyllia you're having/had trouble with? The same question applies to that sponge like entity. Most of the pics I have seen of vermetid snails, etc only have a single hole in the tube but I am not an expert. I know the experts will chime in.

 

[Joe31415]

LPS like a slightly dirty tank with nitrates at 10 and phosphate. 05 to .1. If they are struggling for nutrients it may take months before you start to see gradual decline of all euphylia.

I've had trouble keeping nutrients up since I started the tank. I overfeed and dose nitrate and phosphate. I'll up how much I'm dosing and see if that helps.

Do you ever see anything come out of those tubes?

I'm not going to say there's nothing in them, but I've never seen anything.

Are these tubes on the euphyllia you're having/had trouble with? The same question applies to that sponge like entity.

Yes, it's on the one currently bailing out, but it wasn't on anything else that I had (recent) problems with.
Whatever it is, the entire coral is coming out the next time I have my hand in the tank (hopefully. I think that one is pretty well stuck to the rock).
Welp, at least I didn't waste money on a cutter to get rid of the dead heads.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

How old is your tank? I do see hair algae and bubble algae and a lot of green, so conditions are not 'perfect'.

Honestly your problem would cause me to go back to my tank and do a full inspection and check everything off the list....... rodi water? rodi filters clean? heater working? light lens are clean? all equipment clean and functioning? Check every single thing on your tank and make sure everything is in tip top shape.

I would also completely stop dosing anything if you are.

After checking everything 100% and correcting anything, and after stopping any type of dosing, then I would go to war with the algae and get it under control.

Get the tank in order, bring the algae under control, then start with corals again. That would be my plan.

 

[Karen00]

I've had trouble keeping nutrients up since I started the tank. I overfeed and dose nitrate and phosphate. I'll up how much I'm dosing and see if that helps.


I'm not going to say there's nothing in them, but I've never seen anything.


Yes, it's on the one currently bailing out, but it wasn't on anything else that I had (recent) problems with.
Whatever it is, the entire coral is coming out the next time I have my hand in the tank (hopefully. I think that one is pretty well stuck to the rock).
Welp, at least I didn't waste money on a cutter to get rid of the dead heads.

It's entirely possible the algae is sucking up your nutrients. @LordofCinder has some good suggestions. It can be frustrating when certain corals just don't seem to take because it could be due to so many different reasons. Parameters, nutrients (too high, too low), lighting, pests, etc.

 

[Joe31415]

How old is your tank?

I'd have to check my notes, but probably about 18 months.

I do see hair algae and bubble algae and a lot of green, so conditions are not 'perfect'.

Hair algae is present, but I'm in there manually removing it a few times a week.
Bubble algae is getting worse. It's not awful, but it's there. I pick out what I can, but there's a lot I can't get to. I did pick up an emerald crab, but I'm not sure it's touching it. I haven't decided if I want to pick up another one or two from the LFS or try reefcleaners.

rodi water? rodi filters clean?

The filters are new(ish) and still producing water with 0 TDS.

heater working?

So far as I know, they are. The tank is a pretty steady 78.

light lens are clean?

They were actually replaced a few months ago because the previous ones melted.

all equipment clean and functioning?

Yup. Skimmer skims, filter filters, everything seems fine.

I would also completely stop dosing anything if you are.

After checking everything 100% and correcting anything, and after stopping any type of dosing, then I would go to war with the algae and get it under control.

Stop dosing what? Calc and Alk would fall pretty quickly if I did that. Nitrate and phosphate will fall even lower if I stop adding it.
I don't think the algae is quite as bad as you're thinking it is. I think you're seeing some tight shots that happen to have some algae in them. There's algae, yes, but it's not overrunning the tank.


I did pull that coral out yesterday and noticed a few (like 3 or 4) minuscule red bugs. I also tossed it in some freshwater with CoralRX to see if anything would fall out. A few equally small black things came out, but I have no idea if they were bugs or just some of the substrate from when it gets kicked up.

Also, regarding the bugs, these are *really* small. Like, just this side of being visible to the naked eye, small. I know there's "red bugs", but I think these were a slightly different color. Also, I see talk about a dot or a line or something on them. These were far too small to make out any type of pattern or variation in coloring. They would have been closer in size to this, but I have no acros. I'm hoping (assuming?) they're just some type of pod.
I haven't seen those bugs anywhere else in the tank, even now that I'm specifically looking for them. Not to say they're not there, but I haven't seen any.

 

[Joe31415]

Well, I know have a torch that's struggling. Hasn't bailed out, but looks like it's headed in that direction as I'm starting to see the top of the skeleton.

 

[BAMatter]

Wondering if there’s any relationship to PH with euphyllia. Since I started keeping an eye on PH stability at 8.3 my euphyllia have really shown a nice response.

 

[Jekyl]

@vetteguy53081 any tips?

 

[Joe31415]

Well, I now have a torch that's struggling. Hasn't bailed out, but looks like it's headed in that direction as I'm starting to see the top of the skeleton.

I pulled the coral that caused me to start this thread. This torch is going downhill. I pulled it, dipped it in Lugol's, then Revive and didn't see anything falling out of it, so I suppose that's good. But the bad head is getting worse so I'll probably see if I can frag it. I did pick up a coral/bone cutter. I'm hopping I can just snap it off right in the tank instead of pulling it out and re-gluing it (though I'm guessing it'll break free from the rock when I try).
I'm going to pick up a ICP test if I can find one at an LFS, otherwise I'll order it online and have it Monday or Tuesday.

In the mean time, I'm trying to figure out if there's anything I can/should be doing. It seems like most advice is anecdotal and a lot of it is likely coincidental (correlation doesn't imply causation and all that).

One thing I do keep seeing is suggestions for treating the tank with cipro (Reef RX). I don't have any of that on hand, but I do have Reef Flux, Kanoplex, Metroplex, Erythromycin and possibly one or two other things from QTing fish.

I'm wondering if I should give Reef Flux (flucozanole) a shot.

I also need to pull my heaters and skimmer pump and some magnetic things and check them. But I don't think that's going to be the source of problems. Just a gut feeling.

The *only* change I can think of is that I picked up some buckets of Reef Crystals instead of the boxes about 6 months ago. I would assume it's all the same, but maybe that's related.

 

[Lavey29]

Euphyllia can get bacterial infections. Fragging off dying head can save the coral. I have successfully treated the tank with ciprofloaxin for infections.

 

[Joe31415]

I'm going to see if I can find some cipro and an ICP test today, though I don't think I've ever seen either at an LFS.
Other than switching from boxes/bags of IO Reef Crystals to buckets, the only other thing I can come up with is that I had my skimmer intake running to a window next to the tank over the summer, so it was getting a lot more fresh air than usual. To the best of my knowledge, no one nearby is doing or spraying anything noxious that I can think of.

 

[Joe31415]

Over the last week or so, the torch I mentioned earlier has lost one of it's heads and another euphyllia lost one as well. Several other frags (non-euphyllias) either appear to be going downhill or are dead (or very close to it). I'm adding, what should be, the last dose of cipro tonight. Whether or not it's helping, I have no idea.
I also noticed a surprising lack of pods when I've checked the tank at night, so I'm adding some apex pods as well. However, I did notice some tiny white bugs. I'm assuming they're pods, I'm just not used to seeing them look like white bugs crawling around on the sand/algae instead of transparent bugs crawling around on the glass.
Likely unrelated, but I've also noticed some new type of snail(s) crawling around. Not sure what that's about yet.

 

[Joe31415]

Got my ICP test results back. I have a few concerns, but I'm not sure how concerned I need to be or if anything high/low has anything to do with my ongoing issue here.

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[TokenReefer]

Have you tried a LARGE water change? Maybe try to reset things a bit. If a chemical got in there that would help dilute it for sure. Running any carbon to try to remove any toxins?

 

[ScubaFish802]

Does the pink stuff blow off if you blast if with a turkey baster or something similar?

It almost looks like the pink is some form of cyano or bacteria that is growing (the only reason I dont say sponge is the wisps in the close up picture looks more like something that has formed in a mass), and then the opaque colored tubes look similar to other sponges I have seen more often. I wonder if there is two things happening together..

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Got my ICP test results back. I have a few concerns, but I'm not sure how concerned I need to be or if anything high/low has anything to do with my ongoing issue here.

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Dude you might have broken a record with those nitrates. I’m impressed. I would typically never tell anyone to worry about nitrates. But I think you might need to worry about it now.

 

[Joe31415]

Does the pink stuff blow off if you blast if with a turkey baster or something similar?

I already pulled that one, but the pink stuff didn't come off as easily as it looked like it would. I don't think it was any kind of algae or bacteria.

Dude you might have broken a record with those nitrates. I’m impressed. I would typically never tell anyone to worry about nitrates. But I think you might need to worry about it now.

I might email them about that, but I'm pretty confident it's wrong. Since I was expecting something around 5, if they came back with 30 or 50 or even 100, I would have been worried (especially since I have to dose nitrates to get it up to 5). But 600? I feel like I'd be having other problems at that point.