Anthias - Fin tips thinning/browning

[PotatoPig]

I have two Anthias, one seems to be turning into the male. I’ve noticed he (?) has brown tips on the ends of his base fins (not sure of the exact term for them) and/or they seem to be thinning.

The other Anthias doesn't seem similarly afflicted.

Is this cause for concern?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I don't see anything worrisome about the color of the fin tips. I do think the fish is a bit skinny (head larger than I would expect given the body size). Be sure you are feeding it multiple times a day. What foods are you feeding?

jay

 

[PotatoPig]

I don't see anything worrisome about the color of the fin tips. I do think the fish is a bit skinny (head larger than I would expect given the body size). Be sure you are feeding it multiple times a day. What foods are you feeding?

jay

I’m worried I’m feeding them too much!

They're on TDO pellets 2x per day, cultured and gut loaded Tigger pods 1x per day, and frozen mysis shrimp every ~3-5 days (more than they can eat, rest goes to hermit crabs and filter sock).

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’m worried I’m feeding them too much!

They're on TDO pellets 2x per day, cultured and gut loaded Tigger pods 1x per day, and frozen mysis shrimp every ~3-5 days (more than they can eat, rest goes to hermit crabs and filter sock).

Do you feed them to satiation each time? I'd up the mysids to daily, and maybe use a razor blade to cut them into smaller pieces if you see the anthias taking them in and spitting them out.

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

Do you feed them to satiation each time? I'd up the mysids to daily, and maybe use a razor blade to cut them into smaller pieces if you see the anthias taking them in and spitting them out.

Jay

I put enough in there’s always pellets floating at the end of the auto 5 minute pause timer on the pump.

They seem to handle the frozen shrimp easily enough, I’ve never seen them have difficulty or spit any out. I’ll try a move to cutting the frozen tabs in half and making the feeding of these daily (50% increase in total, but also likely less lost to the filter sock).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Agree. . fish looks great and nice uniform color and finnage.
Diet is very important to their success.. . . and not flakes and pellets only. LRS fish frenzy, plankton, mysis, spirulina brine shrimp and chopped krill

 

[PotatoPig]

I don't see anything worrisome about the color of the fin tips. I do think the fish is a bit skinny (head larger than I would expect given the body size). Be sure you are feeding it multiple times a day. What foods are you feeding?

jay

So the browning appears to have spread to the tip of its starboard Pectoral fin - hard to get a good photo as they’re always moving around but you can kinda see it in this one. Could this be fin rot?

The other Anthias seems fine.

Another thing - the one with the browning fin tips has been chasing the other a lot more than usual lately. They hang out together and the other isnt hiding, but definitely a lot of chasing.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Yes - the coloration on the pectoral fin is not normal. I don't think it is serious (yet). It may be from the chasing you noted.

"Fin rot" isn't a disease per-se, it is a result of some fin damage. If the other fish causes enough damage, this fish could develop bacterial fin rot from that.

Anthias are an issue - for a "schooling fish" they sure do fight a lot as they assert their male dominance. There isn't any way to control that other to either separate the fish or see if they will work it out.

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

Yes - the coloration on the pectoral fin is not normal. I don't think it is serious (yet). It may be from the chasing you noted.

"Fin rot" isn't a disease per-se, it is a result of some fin damage. If the other fish causes enough damage, this fish could develop bacterial fin rot from that.

Anthias are an issue - for a "schooling fish" they sure do fight a lot as they assert their male dominance. There isn't any way to control that other to either separate the fish or see if they will work it out.

Jay

Thank you for the very fast reply! Is there anything I should do for treatment of the fin at this stage or instead focus on making sure they’re well fed and otherwise healthy?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for the very fast reply! Is there anything I should do for treatment of the fin at this stage or instead focus on making sure they’re well fed and otherwise healthy?

No - I don't see any signs of bacteria overwhelming the tissue...watch for portions of the fins missing and/or red coloration. Still, if you had the means to separate the fish, I would do that.

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

No - I don't see any signs of bacteria overwhelming the tissue...watch for portions of the fins missing and/or red coloration. Still, if you had the means to separate the fish, I would do that.

Jay

Thank you - I’ll keep and eye on it for now. Unfortunately no secondary tank other than a 10 gallon QT that’s not really going to be enough as a long term option.

 

[PotatoPig]

Anthias are an issue - for a "schooling fish" they sure do fight a lot as they assert their male dominance. There isn't any way to control that other to either separate the fish or see if they will work it out.

Jay

So I upped their feeding yesterday, including a couple large feedings of mysis, and as of now their aggression seems to have dialed way down from where it’s been the last week or so. Hopefully if this continues the extra nutrition and reduced stress will help him fight it off.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I upped their feeding yesterday, including a couple large feedings of mysis, and as of now their aggression seems to have dialed way down from where it’s been the last week or so. Hopefully if this continues the extra nutrition and reduced stress will help him fight it off.

I didn't anticipate that the aggression would drop off from increased feeding, but I guess take what you can get (grin).

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

Update: So the browning darkened, and then spread to his port-side fin. Behavior seemed normal/usual. Maybe I panicked early but decided to try a treatment (Ruby Reef Rally Pro - as it seemed like a generalized way to treat the whole tank in case the other fish were coming down with it also).

So far on day 2 of this. No further progression noted, or spread to other fish so far.

Video below of current fish, as well as the other Anthias that has no symptoms, and clowns that also seem happy enough.

 

[PotatoPig]

Headed into day 3 of treatment and day 4 of feeding 3x a day:

Fin browning has darkened, but does not have appeared to have either spread to additional fins or increased extent on affected fins. So that’s so-so.

No other fish seem affected either, including the other Anthias, which is good.

Bad news is he’s opening and closing his mouth fast and is the only fish in the tank to be doing this, and has also cut down food intake…

Concerned his gills are also affected in some way. Any suggestions or just wait and observe?

Plan:
1. One more day treatment
2. Add air stone to sump to boost air (at least for a little while) to see if there’s any improvement.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Headed into day 3 of treatment and day 4 of feeding 3x a day:

Fin browning has darkened, but does not have appeared to have either spread to additional fins or increased extent on affected fins. So that’s so-so.

No other fish seem affected either, including the other Anthias, which is good.

Bad news is he’s opening and closing his mouth fast and is the only fish in the tank to be doing this, and has also cut down food intake…

Concerned his gills are also affected in some way. Any suggestions or just wait and observe?

Plan:
1. One more day treatment
2. Add air stone to sump to boost air (at least for a little while) to see if there’s any improvement.

In looking at the video (I was on my phone before) I'm pretty certain that this coloration is just the start of the dominant male color change. The spots are symetrical (Parasites and fin rot don't do that) and are in the exact location where the red/purple spots are located on a super male anthias.

Now, that doesn't mean things will go smoothly with the transition, and the rapid breathing is something else, unrelated to the fin color.

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

In looking at the video (I was on my phone before) I'm pretty certain that this coloration is just the start of the dominant male color change. The spots are symetrical (Parasites and fin rot don't do that) and are in the exact location where the red/purple spots are located on a super male anthias.

Ohhhhh!

Just did a google image search adding “male” to the search line and see dozens of fish now with identical fin tips….

He’s definitely the more dominant one, and you can see he’s got a more pronounced fin spike so this definitely tracks. I guess may this explain him ratcheting up chasing the other around too.

Revised Plan: Conclude treatment today (day 3) and then observe. Also remove hood (glass) to increase aeration if the mouth thing doesn’t resolve today.

 

[PotatoPig]

Now, that doesn't mean things will go smoothly with the transition, and the rapid breathing is something else, unrelated to the fin color.

Thank you for your patience with a newbie aquarist!

Is the process of the sex change physically stressful on them? Asking as since this morning he’s just been hiding out in a cave opening and closing his mouth, didn’t even come out for when I dumped a bunch of pods in.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for your patience with a newbie aquarist!

Is the process of the sex change physically stressful on them? Asking as since this morning he’s just been hiding out in a cave opening and closing his mouth, didn’t even come out for when I dumped a bunch of pods in.

Ugh - the anthias is breathing WAY too fast. Changing sec like they do isn't stressful, in fact, it is the larger, tougher fish that typically make the change. Something else is going on and it is serious. Ruby Reef is a "second tier" medication - it doesn't work as well as more proven meds, but it is safe to use in a display tank.

I don't suppose you have a treatment tank that you could run copper in?
The other anthias is breathing normally?

Jay

 

[PotatoPig]

Ugh - the anthias is breathing WAY too fast. Changing sec like they do isn't stressful, in fact, it is the larger, tougher fish that typically make the change. Something else is going on and it is serious. Ruby Reef is a "second tier" medication - it doesn't work as well as more proven meds, but it is safe to use in a display tank.

I don't suppose you have a treatment tank that you could run copper in?
The other anthias is breathing normally?

Jay

The other Anthias is fine. I have copper on hand and a QT tank (10 gallon) I’m warming up now. Also metro and prazi. Anything I should do to lessen the impact on him when I put him in it?