Anthias Uronema

[Hellic]

So I have a Bimaculatus anthias female that started to develop red sores on her body after a week in QT. Fritz coppersafe at 2.0ppm is the only medication in the water when I noticed. I immediately began feeding metroplex soaked foods and started adding metroplex (2 scoops per 10 gallons) to the water in addition to the 2.0ppm of copper. Now the uronema seems to be receding after 2 weeks of treatment and the marks have shown significant healing and are almost unnoticeable.

So my question is, does the fish have a chance now? And should I continue dosing metroplex another week until the sores have disappeared completely? Also should the fish be moved to a new quarantine once the marks are gone, or has the metroplex eradicated the uronema in the tank. Thanks!

 

[vetteguy53081]

So I have a Bimaculatus anthias female that started to develop red sores on her body after a week in QT. Fritz coppersafe at 2.0ppm is the only medication in the water when I noticed. I immediately began feeding metroplex soaked foods and started adding metroplex (2 scoops per 10 gallons) to the water in addition to the 2.0ppm of copper. Now the uronema seems to be receding after 2 weeks of treatment and the marks have shown significant healing and are almost unnoticeable.

So my question is, does the fish have a chance now? And should I continue dosing metroplex another week until the sores have disappeared completely? Also should the fish be moved to a new quarantine once the marks are gone, or has the metroplex eradicated the uronema in the tank. Thanks!

While metro can help somewhat, copper will not. Red patch sounds like it BUT could you post a pic or two under white lighting for confirmation ?
If it is, you will want to get Quick Cure. If none, then Ruby rally Pro.
best treatment choice is a 45 min formalin bath using Quick Cure then finished in a quarantine tank. Once in QT tank, treat and assure that the parasites have been eliminated. You can also soak food in metronidazole . . . Seachem Metroplex for 10-14 days.

 

[Hellic]

The fish has already been in QT for 3 weeks. 2 weeks of metroplex has already been administered. I did initially do a H2o2 bath for 30 mins at 150ppm before going into QT, but i did not start the metroplex immediately (to my mistake) until i saw the red sores forming a week later.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The fish has already been in QT for 3 weeks. 2 weeks of metroplex has already been administered. I did initially do a H2o2 bath for 30 mins at 150ppm before going into QT, but i did not start the metroplex immediately (to my mistake) until i saw the red sores forming a week later.

How many times have you dosed the metro in the water? I typically dose it 3x, 48 hours apart.

I’ve never been able to cure intracellular Uronema, although I may have stopped it’s spread a bit using chloroquine.
The trouble is, by the time you see the lesions, they’ve been festering in the fish’s internal tissues for too long.
I would wonder if you had some different issue here? Uronema and bacterial diseases are impossible to tell apart without a biopsy under a microscope.

Jay

 

[Hellic]

How many times have you dosed the metro in the water? I typically dose it 3x, 48 hours apart.

I’ve never been able to cure intracellular Uronema, although I may have stopped it’s spread a bit using chloroquine.
The trouble is, by the time you see the lesions, they’ve been festering in the fish’s internal tissues for too long.
I would wonder if you had some different issue here? Uronema and bacterial diseases are impossible to tell apart without a biopsy under a microscope.

Jay

I have dosed every 48 hours for 2 weeks at a dosage of 2 scoops per 10 gallons instead of the usual 1 scoop. Also added metroplex and focus to pellets to feed internally for the same 2 weeks. So about 8 total doses into the water column with everyday medicated food in the mornings. I would say I feel like this was external uronema since the spots were red and started on top of the fishes skin. I think internal uronema begins with brownish spots and spreads outwards. One of the marks was that red tiger stripe appearance. The other was more circular and scales were starting to peel off. These wounds have healed and receded pretty well but are still slightly visible.

 

[Hellic]

Here are the images.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Here are the images.

Following as I'm going through the same with my 3 lyretails right now in QT. All sitting in 2.0 copper power and similarly at the 14 day mark with metro plus 3 rounds of GC. However I'm unsuccessful at getting mine to eat metro laced food so while they may be clean externally, internally is unknown. I'm not visually seeing anything myself.

What happened to the theory that anthias were typically disease resistant that people used to cite? Are we seeing more uronema in the supply chain these days?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Following as I'm going through the same with my 3 lyretails right now in QT. All sitting in 2.0 copper power and similarly at the 14 day mark with metro plus 3 rounds of GC. However I'm unsuccessful at getting mine to eat metro laced food so while they may be clean externally, internally is unknown. I'm not visually seeing anything myself.

What happened to the theory that anthias were typically disease resistant that people used to cite? Are we seeing more uronema in the supply chain these days?

Purely anecdotally, it seems that the longer supply chain brought about by Covid caused an uptick in Uronema cases, especially in green chromis and anthias.

Jay

 

[Saltyanimals]

Purely anecdotally, it seems that the longer supply chain brought about by Covid caused an uptick in Uronema cases, especially in green chromis and anthias.

Jay

Longer supply chain because of Covid? Never thought about it that way. Makes sense. Fish sits longer through the journey thus exposure to other sick fish... thanks for this perspective.

 

[Saltyanimals]

By the way. Can anyone reference a discussion on the speed to which uronema spreads in a DT?

Many variables of course with water volume number of fish that would increase the physical contact to spread, but looking for ranges. i.e. If you introduced new batch of uronema cleaned fish, wait 10 days and if it doesn't spread then maybe you're fairly safe.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

By the way. Can anyone reference a discussion on the speed to which uronema spreads in a DT?

Many variables of course with water volume number of fish that would increase the physical contact to spread, but looking for ranges. i.e. If you introduced new batch of uronema cleaned fish, wait 10 days and if it doesn't spread then maybe you're fairly safe.

Uronema is a ubiquitous protozoan - I've seen figures that say anywhere from 25% to 100% of aquariums have it free living. The "day job" for this protozoan is feeding on bacteria. Nobody really knows why it becomes a fish pathogen in some cases. It may well be that the fish develop a bacterial infection and the Uronema begin to feed on those, and just don't know when to stop!

I have never seen Uronema kill fish except in quarantine systems, hyposalinity treatments and with newly acquired fish.

Quick story: when I worked for the Shedd Aquarium, I was beginning to do necropsies for them and I was finding Uronema on dead fish taken out of tanks. I told my curator that I thought we had a real problem. His reply was to tell me to hang a frozen smelt in one of the tanks. Sure enough, the next day it was covered with Uronema also. He knew that these were post-mortem artifacts, and weren't killing the fish outright.

Jay

 

[GarrettT]

Anyone know exactly how quickly uronema spreads? If I purchase a fish from a LFS in a tank with non-qt chromis, would it be safe to assume that I already have it in my system? I’ve been avoiding chromis as I fear it will introduce my clowns to uronema.

 

[Saltyanimals]

Uronema is a ubiquitous protozoan - I've seen figures that say anywhere from 25% to 100% of aquariums have it free living. The "day job" for this protozoan is feeding on bacteria. Nobody really knows why it becomes a fish pathogen in some cases. It may well be that the fish develop a bacterial infection and the Uronema begin to feed on those, and just don't know when to stop!

I have never seen Uronema kill fish except in quarantine systems, hyposalinity treatments and with newly acquired fish.

Quick story: when I worked for the Shedd Aquarium, I was beginning to do necropsies for them and I was finding Uronema on dead fish taken out of tanks. I told my curator that I thought we had a real problem. His reply was to tell me to hang a frozen smelt in one of the tanks. Sure enough, the next day it was covered with Uronema also. He knew that these were post-mortem artifacts, and weren't killing the fish outright.

Jay

@Jay Hemdal this is very very interesting what you said above. You've never seen it kill fish except in QT. If I unpack this, it could also read as that as long as you do the best you can proactively to eradicate. i.e. 10-14 days metro feeding and/or formalin, then it should NOT infect or spread to others in DT.

I've read that folks have uronema miss the metro treatment and have it infect other fish (presumable in DT). This contradicts that you said. Not challenging, just interested to hear the perspective. Could it be that uronema "isn't that bad" at least from the perspective of putting other fish in DT at risk?

I'm fine with it killing the host as I did the best I could with 20+ days in metro giving a fish the best treatment possible and if it dies.. it's fate. What no one wants is for it to put other DT fish at risk. This a significant change at least in my understanding of this pathogen.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal this is very very interesting what you said above. You've never seen it kill fish except in QT. If I unpack this, it could also read as that as long as you do the best you can proactively to eradicate. i.e. 10-14 days metro feeding and/or formalin, then it should NOT infect or spread to others in DT.

I've read that folks have uronema miss the metro treatment and have it infect other fish (presumable in DT). This contradicts that you said. Not challenging, just interested to hear the perspective. Could it be that uronema "isn't that bad" at least from the perspective of putting other fish in DT at risk?

I'm fine with it killing the host as I did the best I could with 20+ days in metro giving a fish the best treatment possible and if it dies.. it's fate. What no one wants is for it to put other DT fish at risk. This a significant change at least in my understanding of this pathogen.

The trouble is that most people reporting that their fish died from “Uronema”haven’t confirmed that from microscopic exam, just the gross lesions…and Uronema mimics bacterial disease so well, that they visually cannot be told apart.
Chloroquine is a much better way to control Uronema than metronidazole or copper is.
Jay

 

[Tcook]

I have never seen Uronema kill fish except in quarantine systems, hyposalinity treatments and with newly acquired fish.

Interesting. Maybe there aren't enough bacteria or biofilms in a clean QT tank so they go after the next best thing. Maybe an established observation tank is better for sensitive anthias. After loosing several sets of pictilis and ventralis I may try this.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Interesting. Maybe there aren't enough bacteria or biofilms in a clean QT tank so they go after the next best thing. Maybe an established observation tank is better for sensitive anthias. After loosing several sets of pictilis and ventralis I may try this.

Two things seem to be at play: fish going through the supply chain more readily develop Uronema infections and aquariums with mature "microbiomes" don't seem to have the same issues with Uronema as do less developed systems like QT. This is all just from observation though....

Jay

 

[Tcook]

Two things seem to be at play: fish going through the supply chain more readily develop Uronema infections and aquariums with mature "microbiomes" don't seem to have the same issues with Uronema as do less developed systems like QT. This is all just from observation though....

Jay

Yes. I agree that the less than ideal holding conditions in the supply chain now is probably the biggest factor. Probably better to wait it out for a year or two before risking these anthias.