Any electricians on here? I have a question about stray voltage.

redfishbluefish · Jan 27, 2016

shoelaceike said:
TIA!

Your welcome.......but what's your question.

If your question is, "Are there any electricians here?"

The answer is Yes.

If you have another question, please let us know.

shoelaceike · Jan 27, 2016

Lol. Yes.....I wanted to know about stray voltage and it's risk to the hobbyist.

I would like to minimize my chances of getting electrocuted by my tank.....I of course can shut down the power whenever I go in the tank but thats a bit of a pain....

My question is, if I did have stray current in the water and I dippped a plastic cup in the water, can the current go through the cup and shock me? Or what if I use grabbers or gloves? Will it go through that?

I rarely get my hands wet but I do often dip a cup or use a grabber.....

I could install a GFI but I would be concerned that it would trip randomly when I'm not around....

shoelaceike · Jan 28, 2016

redfishbluefish · Jan 28, 2016

Yes, voltage leaks could be very dangerous to the hobbyist, especially if you have certain health issues.

If you wish to elimiate the chances of getting shocked, you will need both a grounding probe and GFCI installed. The one potential issue using this protection is that it could cause for your tank to shut down when you're not home. You potentially can eliminate some of the "damage" of this occurring by using two separate circuits and splitting the running of your tank on these two circuits...(and hope that both don't pop off).

Now, here's what I do....and this might not work for everyone.....I have no electrical protection on my tank. I want to feel that tingle when I put my hand in the tank to know if I have a bad piece of equipment. This also gives me the piece of mind, with all the travelling I do, that my tank won't be dead from a GFCI event when I was away. I will repeat, this works for me and might not be appropriate for someone else.

KingTriton · Jan 28, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
This also gives me the piece of mind, with all the travelling I do, that my tank won't be dead from a GFCI event when I was away. I will repeat, this works for me and might not be appropriate for someone else.

So you don't keep any GFCI outlet or breaker for your circuits? If not, how do you have the outlets placed near the tank? Above the tank?

shoelaceike · Jan 28, 2016

Thanks....why do you need a grounding probe and GFCI? Wouldn't GFCI alone work? Also how about the plastic? Will the current travel through?

thehammer1985 · Jan 28, 2016

Plastic is in insulator it contains less the 4 electrons in its outer shell of atoms after binding. It conducts no electricity. A gf city will pop at a certain amperage and stray voltage should have little to no resistance henceforth little to no amperage . a ground probe will make any and all stray voltage follow the path of least resistance to ground . The path of least resistance will be ur probe. Therefore protecting u and tank inhabitants

thehammer1985 · Jan 28, 2016

Now don't get me wrong if you had stray voltage and no grounding probe you would become the resistance when you put your hand in the water . And depending on the voltage you'll get a tingle or you'll pop your gfci because the electricity flowing through your body with resistance will "create" the current

thehammer1985 · Jan 28, 2016

I would strongly recommend a gfci your life is at stake

KingTriton · Jan 28, 2016

Ive read somewhere that a grounding probe can actually create stray voltage even though it protects against it or something around those lines.

fragit · Jan 28, 2016

Is a gound probe not enough to protect the hobbiest's life?

redfishbluefish · Jan 28, 2016

KingTriton said:
Ive read somewhere that a grounding probe can actually create stray voltage even though it protects against it or something around those lines.

King, I believe you are confusing voltage with current. Voltage is like a battery sitting in the drawer of your desk. It's there, but not going anywhere. This is what you have in your tank if you don't have it grounded. Voltage is there....but just "sitting" there going nowhere.

Current is the flow of this voltage. It's current that kills. If you have a grounding probe (and a voltage leak), you have current. You want to match a grounding probe with a GFCI because you never want current in your tank.

fragit · Jan 28, 2016

redfishbluefish said:
King, I believe you are confusing voltage with current. Voltage is like a battery sitting in the drawer of your desk. It's there, but not going anywhere. This is what you have in your tank if you don't have it grounded. Voltage is there....but just "sitting" there going nowhere.

Current is the flow of this voltage. It's current that kills. If you have a grounding probe (and a voltage leak), you have current. You want to match a grounding probe with a GFCI because you never want current in your tank.

So are you saying that unless your grounding probe is plugged into a GFCI outlet it's usless?

redfishbluefish · Jan 28, 2016

No. I'm saying if you have a grounding probe without a GFCI....and a voltage leak....you have current flowing though your tank. It will protect you, but not your livestock. Without a GFCI, you have no idea that you have current flowing through your tank. You might be scratching your head and wondering why your fish are reacting funny, or corals are receding, and potentially dying....and still have no clue you're frying your fish. It's the reason you want both. Protect you and your fish.

shoelaceike · Jan 28, 2016

So back to the plastic. If there was current in the tank and I dipped a plastic cup in the water, will I get shocked? Same question with gloves or a plastic grabber.

redfishbluefish · Jan 28, 2016

This can not be answered definitively, but I will state that most plastics are not conductive. The cases where I know they are, they have been "treated" with a metalic component to make them conductive. Realize that most insulation on wires is made of plastic.

The likelihood is that you will be just fine.

shoelaceike · Jan 28, 2016

Awesome. I will look into getting a GFCI but in the meantime I will shut power if I'm going in with bare hands

wpeterson · Jan 28, 2016

This is always an interesting discussion and somewhat counter-intuitive.

The best thing you can do for your safety and your tank's livestock is to use a GFCI, grounding probe, and some kind of controller/monitor to tell you if you lose power. However, that's a complicated and expensive option. I have a GFCI at my tank and a grounding probe, so that stray voltage should immediate trip the GFCI if there's much of any. I have a monitor on my Apex that will text me whenever the Apex loses power. The default Fusion alert only tells you after the power comes back on :-/ This way you're safe and can handle the rare cases where a GFCI trips when you're away. Power failures should be something your tank handles gracefully and you practice, but for many folks it can pose challenges (skimmers that overflow, etc).

If you only do one thing, you should ensure your tank is on a GFCI because it will save your life if there's a voltage leak or a short. It's only $10-$20 more to buy a grounding probe.

**EDITED TO REMOVE questionable ground prove only advice**

twilliard · Jan 28, 2016

http://m.ecmweb.com/content/how-gfcis-work

wpeterson said:
What you should not do is use a grounding probe without a GFCI circuit, as this can increase the danger to you or your livestock by providing live grounding line which may carry a lot of voltage in the case of a failure without a GFCI to interrupt it and warn you.

Lets think about this a second