Any electricians on here? I have a question about stray voltage.

[shoelaceike]

Whats the purpose of the grounding probe if you have GFCI? The ms current hits your skin the GFI should trip, no?

 

[wpeterson]

http://m.ecmweb.com/content/how-gfcis-work
Lets think about this a second

Oops Please explain in more detail. Do you think ground probes are worth while without a GFCI? Or did I just explain the mechanisms incorrectly?

 

[twilliard]

Now if you want protection through the grounding path install an arc fault breaker.

http://www.afcisafety.org/qa.html

 

[shoelaceike]

Now if you want protection through the grounding path install an arc fault breaker.

http://www.afcisafety.org/qa.html

I've heard these trip quite often.

 

[twilliard]

If you have a clear grounding path they dont

Electrician 20 years

 

[Blue Lip]

I've heard these trip quite often.

They can. Especially if there is an old appliance plugged in.

 

[dbl]

I'll let the electrical experts continue on the probe conversation (I do not have one). I'd like to circle back (before it's forgotten) to having two (or more) circuits (I have two) on your system with a real world example. I have my return (and other items) on one circuit and have my circulation (and other items) on the other circuit. Both have GFCI's installed. I have an outlet nozzle from both the return and circulation that disrupts the surface of the water. Just two weeks ago I had one trip for a reason still unknown. So until I could get back home, my tank had at least some water movement and the water surface disrupted for exchange purposes.

Yes I was notified this happened (via Apex) but I was in a situation I wasn't able to respond for at least a few hours. I wasn't as concerned because I felt it would be fine until I got home because I had movement. Just a quick example, at least in my opinion, to demonstrate the importance of two (or more) circuits. You just have to plan out what's run on each.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of probes and GFCI's. Stay safe!

 

[shoelaceike]

I'll let the electrical experts continue on the probe conversation (I do not have one). I'd like to circle back (before it's forgotten) to having two (or more) circuits (I have two) on your system with a real world example. I have my return (and other items) on one circuit and have my circulation (and other items) on the other circuit. Both have GFCI's installed. I have an outlet nozzle from both the return and circulation that disrupts the surface of the water. Just two weeks ago I had one trip for a reason still unknown. So until I could get back home, my tank had at least some water movement and the water surface disrupted for exchange purposes.

Yes I was notified this happened (via Apex) but I was in a situation I wasn't able to respond for at least a few hours. I wasn't as concerned because I felt it would be fine until I got home because I had movement. Just a quick example, at least in my opinion, to demonstrate the importance of two (or more) circuits. You just have to plan out what's run on each.

Now back to your regularly scheduled discussion of probes and GFCI's. Stay safe!

Pretty good idea. I'm assuming you don't need 2 circuits but 2 outlets.... The trip happens at the outlet (assuming you don't have GFI circuits)

 

[shoelaceike]

Instead of that, I can purchase 2 GFI surge protectors and plug thembin one outlet.....the only issue is I've hears they don't turn back on after a power outage.

 

[KingTriton]

I have my return (and other items) on one circuit and have my circulation (and other items) on the other circuit. Both have GFCI's installed. I have an outlet nozzle from both the return and circulation that disrupts the surface of the water. Just two weeks ago I had one trip for a reason still unknown. So until I could get back home, my tank had at least some water movement and the water surface disrupted for exchange purposes.

This is kinda like how I set up my sump. I utilize my circuits for circulation safety. I keep Matrix bio media in there so its important to keep my water from turning anaerobic.

 

[dbl]

Pretty good idea. I'm assuming you don't need 2 circuits but 2 outlets.... The trip happens at the outlet (assuming you don't have GFI circuits)

Assumption incorrect - again, my opinion. It's two separate circuits (so two breakers at the box), not just outlets. Had an electrician run mine because I don't do electric!!!

 

[shoelaceike]

Assumption incorrect - again, my opinion. It's two separate circuits (so two breakers at the box), not just outlets. Had an electrician run mine because I don't do electric!!!

Oh wow thats pretty cool.....I have never had a regular circuit break for no reason though

 

[Blue Lip]

If you have faulty equipment, you will only get shocked if your grounded. Put shoes on. Lol

Oh wow thats pretty cool.....I have never had a regular circuit break for no reason though

Sometimes breakers go bad. Not often but it happens.

 

[Saltwaterwill]

How about bubble covers for your gfcis? This way your Ckts won't trip of water splashing

 

[dbl]

Oh wow thats pretty cool.....I have never had a regular circuit break for no reason though

...Sometimes breakers go bad. Not often but it happens.

Per my original post on this, I had one "pop" (a breaker) for no apparent reason. And yes, I guess they can go bad. The point is if you break up your equipment on two circuits, you can maintain minimal life support for at least some amount of time.

 

[tony'stank]

When I tried to install a grounding probe it kept triggering my GFCi. Does that mean I gave serious stray voltage? Thanks

 

[Blue Lip]

Yes. Something has a short.

 

[Finatik]

I was thinking of using this to provide GFCI protection:

So if I plug one of these into my wall outlet, and then plug a couple of DJ Power strips into the GFCI outlets above...
1) Will this protect me from electrocution adequately ?
2) Will there still be a risk of the GFCI above tripping for no reason causing everything on the tank to shut off ?
3) If I use the GFCI above, do I still need to get a grounding probe?

 

[Blue Lip]

I am an electrician. I have been zapped a few times and can say I Think GFI protection is over rated. I believe a GFI outlet works 2 ways. 1 way it works is there is a magnetic field. As power leaves and returns there is a positive and negative that are equal. If you are getting shocked and the electricity is going to a ground and not returning on the neutral then the magnetic field is unbalanced and it is supposed to trip. It doesn't always though. I still would recommend using them. I would not use a grounding probe though. That will cause a trip with stray voltage.

 

[Paul B]

Lol. Yes.....I wanted to know about stray voltage and it's risk to the hobbyist.

My question is, if I did have stray current in the water and I dippped a plastic cup in the water, can the current go through the cup and shock me? Or what if I use grabbers or gloves? Will it go through that?

I rarely get my hands wet but I do often dip a cup or use a grabber.....

I could install a GFI but I would be concerned that it would trip randomly when I'm not around....

You mention stray voltage and stray current in a tank. They are two different concerns. The stray voltage in your tank is normal and every tank has it. If you have measurable current in your tank you have a much bigger line voltage problem and will get yourself electrocuted if you stick your finger in there. Use a GFCI and ground probe. That is all I would like to add to this thread as these electric threads can go on for years and become nothing but arguments. Good luck and stay safe. Have fun
(Master Commercial Electrician Manhattan 40 years)