Anybody know which specific PO4 is in Brightwell Neophos?

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Zzyzx

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It’s a secret and they’re not telling! I think it’s been a mystery for a long time, I haven’t heard the answer. It works, I didn’t have any issues but I switched to Trisodium phosphate dibasic and mixed it so that one ml equates to 0.01ppm. So much easier than math, much more fluid and higher cost. One tiny bottle of powder should last me a very, very long time.
 
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It’s a secret and they’re not telling! I think it’s been a mystery for a long time, I haven’t heard the answer. It works, I didn’t have any issues but I switched to Trisodium phosphate dibasic and mixed it so that one ml equates to 0.01ppm. So much easier than math, much more fluid and higher cost. One tiny bottle of powder should last me a very, very long time.

Really gets annoying how companies hide stuff. I’m gonna send it to a lab. I bet it’s TSP or Potassium Phosphate.

I used a ton of TSP on this tank. I will not use it anymore. Trying to find a cheap alternative. I do have one, but it’s not cheap, but so much better. I need another back up though to keep on hand.

F6C497D9-6BB6-4791-A251-6E0284DE5367.jpeg
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I expect is is sodium and maybe some potsssium phosphate. I personally don’t think the form matters much as long as it is not highly contaminated.
 
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I expect is is sodium and maybe some potsssium phosphate. I personally don’t think the form matters much as long as it is not highly contaminated.

I’d cut my RT leg off to know. Probably something off eBay. :)
 
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What is wrong with TSP and what is your better alternative?
When I dosed a lot I observed a “cleaner type effect” in the tank. Not to mention, not even a hint of green algae or a hint of green dusting on the glass.

The best product I’ve ever dosed to date is Phosphorus -N. Night and day difference compared to TSP. It is so much more bioavailable to the corals and critters in the tank. On a scale of 1-10…I’d give TSP a 1 and Phosphorus-N a 10 to put it into perspective. It’s not cost effective though, and due to legal issue’s with safety ATM it’s going to be on the weak side right now. Eventually that will change. Weak as in 7.57 mL per 100/G to raise PO4 by .02 ppm. I like 1-2 mL to raise by .02 ppm.

I’m currently testing the two below and you can see their uses:

SODIUM PHOSPHATE MONOBASIC

Food Additive / Thickener / Emulsifier / Water Treatment / Magnesium Detection.


POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE DIBASIC

Fertilizer / Food Additive / Buffering Agent / Source of Phosphorus and Potassium / Mineral Supplements / Starter Cultures.

Typically I try to stay away from products that have potassium in them, but I’m gonna see if it increases my potassium level. I’m dosing quite a lot right now, so if it doesn’t increase with the amount I’m currently dosing, it will probably be safe for 90% of reefers.
 

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When I dosed a lot I observed a “cleaner type effect” in the tank. Not to mention, not even a hint of green algae or a hint of green dusting on the glass.

The best product I’ve ever dosed to date is Phosphorus -N. Night and day difference compared to TSP. It is so much more bioavailable to the corals and critters in the tank. On a scale of 1-10…I’d give TSP a 1 and Phosphorus-N a 10 to put it into perspective. It’s not cost effective though, and due to legal issue’s with safety ATM it’s going to be on the weak side right now. Eventually that will change. Weak as in 7.57 mL per 100/G to raise PO4 by .02 ppm. I like 1-2 mL to raise by .02 ppm.

I’m currently testing the two below and you can see their uses:

SODIUM PHOSPHATE MONOBASIC

Food Additive / Thickener / Emulsifier / Water Treatment / Magnesium Detection.


POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE DIBASIC

Fertilizer / Food Additive / Buffering Agent / Source of Phosphorus and Potassium / Mineral Supplements / Starter Cultures.

Typically I try to stay away from products that have potassium in them, but I’m gonna see if it increases my potassium level. I’m dosing quite a lot right now, so if it doesn’t increase with the amount I’m currently dosing, it will probably be safe for 90% of reefers.

There’s no reason for the difference between dosing monobasic, dibasic or tribasic forms to have different effects on the tank unless the effects you report were due to impurities.

There will be a tiny pH and alk difference in dosing the different forms , but at the same aquarium pH, these are all identical.
 

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When I dosed a lot I observed a “cleaner type effect” in the tank. Not to mention, not even a hint of green algae or a hint of green dusting on the glass.

The best product I’ve ever dosed to date is Phosphorus -N. Night and day difference compared to TSP. It is so much more bioavailable to the corals and critters in the tank. On a scale of 1-10…I’d give TSP a 1 and Phosphorus-N a 10 to put it into perspective. It’s not cost effective though, and due to legal issue’s with safety ATM it’s going to be on the weak side right now. Eventually that will change. Weak as in 7.57 mL per 100/G to raise PO4 by .02 ppm. I like 1-2 mL to raise by .02 ppm.

I’m currently testing the two below and you can see their uses:

SODIUM PHOSPHATE MONOBASIC

Food Additive / Thickener / Emulsifier / Water Treatment / Magnesium Detection.


POTASSIUM PHOSPHATE DIBASIC

Fertilizer / Food Additive / Buffering Agent / Source of Phosphorus and Potassium / Mineral Supplements / Starter Cultures.

Typically I try to stay away from products that have potassium in them, but I’m gonna see if it increases my potassium level. I’m dosing quite a lot right now, so if it doesn’t increase with the amount I’m currently dosing, it will probably be safe for 90% of reefers.


Who make the Phosphorus -N?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Completely off topic. Brightwell NeoPhos saved my tank.

My phosphates were stuck at a HARD zero. Nothing I could do would bring them up.

Good to hear. FWIW, food grade sodium phosphate will also work fine.
 
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There’s no reason for the difference between dosing monobasic, dibasic or tribasic forms to have different effects on the tank unless the effects you report were due to impurities.

There will be a tiny pH and alk difference in dosing the different forms , but at the same aquarium pH, these are all identical.

For sure Randy…I know they’re close. Not sure why the tank was looking like that. It was definitely off. The corals couldn’t uptake that TSP. It was a night and day difference when I switch to the Phosphorus -N. I have it documented. I’ll let you check out my notes below:

5E329C84-C8F7-44A3-A6BE-6099FD10F983.png
 
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Who make the Phosphorus -N?

Before you start and get hooked (it is good stuff). Do consider waiting until the more potent solution is out. Currently it takes about 7.57 mL to > PO4 by .02 ppm per 100/G. I recently Transitioned off (already seeing colors changing for the worse). $20 a bottle can get expensive quick at this dilution. If you have a small tank it’s great, but anything over 100/G+, and it goes quick. However, like I said if you have a starving tank, and need to get PO4 into the corals quickly, I’m very confident this will outperform almost anything else on the market. I have not tested the Triton product, but I doubt it’s this bioavailable. The ingredients are superior with high purity. It is not made with just simple orthophosphates. I have a feeling that Tritons product isn’t either, but I don’t know. I still think it’s unlikely to have the ingredients this has in it. Once you start dosing it on a starving tank you immediately think I’m never switching out this stuff until it starts going so fast! So don’t start unless you really need to save the corals. Pretty soon we’ll have some Hazard labels on these bottles and child proof caps and will be increasing the potency hopefully by 5-6x and then it will be game on.

 

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I’ll just reiterate that I do not think that the form of phosphate dosed will matter to any reef tank, and if there are differences that are reproducible, the effect must be from undesirable impurities in some materials.
 
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